Holy Paladin 5.4

[Lucyrotten]

I couldn't get below 10.5k spirit with my gear no matter how I reforge/gem.

Cloak and boots you could drop more spirit.

[Bionix]

I am using the SH build in 25s for all fights. Currently progressing on H Siegecrafter. 9.6k spirit, H Thok and H Sha trinks, sadly no 4pc. Obviously going heavily into mastery but for secondary stat I go for crit. What is the reasoning for putting haste over crit? Sanctity of battle? To me at least it feels like the rotation is fluid enough without lowering the CDs on judge and HS further. Crit results in direct throughput though.

[Alyajna]

Just thought I'd report back again, I tried out SS on all the fights this reset and while there were a few it wasn't the best option (Spoils and Thok, namely), it seems to preform extremely well. I'd love to see more people test it in a 25m setting, as I barely see any of it!
Oh, I did do EF for Malkorok.

[Xs]

I am using the SH build in 25s for all fights. Currently progressing on H Siegecrafter. 9.6k spirit, H Thok and H Sha trinks, sadly no 4pc. Obviously going heavily into mastery but for secondary stat I go for crit. What is the reasoning for putting haste over crit? Sanctity of battle? To me at least it feels like the rotation is fluid enough without lowering the CDs on judge and HS further. Crit results in direct throughput though.

Haste is reliable and increases your HP gen, crit is a better raw throughput stat. Ultimately the real answer would probably be, if on Thok for example you can squeeze out 1 extra spell during your guild's regular levels of P1's, then Haste will vastly out rank Haste there and could push you 1-2 more interrupt cycles. You're going to get this kind of answer a lot, as SH is primarily used for Thok right now.

[Bionix]

Haste is reliable and increases your HP gen, crit is a better raw throughput stat. Ultimately the real answer would probably be, if on Thok for example you can squeeze out 1 extra spell during your guild's regular levels of P1's, then Haste will vastly out rank Haste there and could push you 1-2 more interrupt cycles. You're going to get this kind of answer a lot, as SH is primarily used for Thok right now.

It is very viable on all fights though except Malkorok. The thing is, on Thok with crit over haste I am still able to easily squeeze a HR after each screech with 1 stack of SH. That's all I need. The point of the SH build isn't to only cast HR at 3 stacks. Sure, during CDs or low dmg parts of the fight you can but it's still quite good pumping out HRs at 1-2 stacks. Going haste over crit at this point would make it so I get 1 extra HP every ~10 HPs or so but I sacrifice so much crit for that, my throughput goes down 5-10% easily.

[Deleted]

The thing is, on Thok with crit over haste I am still able to easily squeeze a HR after each screech with 1 stack of SH. That's all I need

You can do that with ~3000 haste and EF build even when the boss is at 30 stacks.

[Juicyjonny]

Selfless healer is really higher output on every single fight in 25m Heroic SoO except for Malkorok of course, the only downfall is the lack of tank healing, and when your tanks vengeance cap the entire fight tank damage can get hectic.

Uhhh, No it's not. On every single fight in TWENTY FIVE MAN HEROIC? Where are you pulling this out of?

[mcbubble]

You can do that with ~3000 haste and EF build even when the boss is at 30 stacks.

We just downed heroic Thok the other night. I was asked to come out of retirement to help on this fight - not for my healing in all honesty, but for another Devo Aura and for BOPs. It was really depressing as a holy paladin to see two times the throughput from other classes. Reaffirmed why I quit raiding on my paladin this expansion.

[Deleted]

Uhhh, No it's not. On every single fight in TWENTY FIVE MAN HEROIC? Where are you pulling this out of?

Just look at WoL. I did an ID as SH after we downed Thok and I was lazy and didn't want to regem/forge. Managed a lot of top 10 Logs that way.
Virsta1 also has a lot of top Ranks using SH. Its defiantly viable if you have the right gear for it.

[Deleted]

Uhhh, No it's not. On every single fight in TWENTY FIVE MAN HEROIC? Where are you pulling this out of?

Selfless Healing+mastery gemming is the highest hps(outside of Malkorok) way to spec/gem as paladin. You don't actually heal doing this, and its so stupid/boring that I can't be arsed to play it, but it is the highest meter build no doubt about that.

[Deleted]

its so stupid/boring

This. SH doesn't feel like healing. You just press buttons and hope your IH doesn't fall off.

[Awakes]

SH is retarded, simple put... I dont understand the affection with this build... its rather doll and nothing good ever came out of smart healing taking over.. its like having mindless dummies doing healing! But thats my opinion..

[nightfalls]

If SH wasn't top on day 1, then I would say for sure it would be during farm especially if you're overhealing the fights a lot and mastery is basically going to look a lot better than it is.

For those who cleared most/all of the instance though, what would you say about its progression value though?

[Virsta1]

If SH wasn't top on day 1, then I would say for sure it would be during farm especially if you're overhealing the fights a lot and mastery is basically going to look a lot better than it is.

For those who cleared most/all of the instance though, what would you say about its progression value though?

The only fights where I had to essentially "tank heal" has been Siegecrafter, General Nazgrim, and Malkorok. Paragon's there is a decent amount of tank damage but not enough for me to want to run EF. I can't really say for heroic garrosh. SH is essentially what EF was the last two tiers now. It isn't bad for the raid but with one average disc priest on our roster the extra absorbs are pretty nice.

[Bionix]

Idk, I find SH to be pretty fun. Stagnation kills MMOs, in my opinion, and we all know that there has been no real change in the Holy Paladin playstyle since Mists hit. SH feels like a breath of fresh air and honestly, when I look at the current 4pc, it feels to me like the devs had SH in mind when they made it. Currently we're getting close to killing Siegecrafter and the mobility with no HPS loss this build provides is invaluable.

[Freia]

What you call a "breath of fresh air" I call mindlessly boring. It requires no real thought or skill and is an example of what is wrong with healing this expansion.

[Virsta1]

What you call a "breath of fresh air" I call mindlessly boring. It requires no real thought or skill and is an example of what is wrong with healing this expansion.

The only thing skillful about paladin's is how you manage your personal throughput CD's. The basic rotation of EF or SH is not hard. The only difference between the 2 is you actually have to pick a target with EF, which if that is what skillful is to you then I disagree. With that, how did EF in 5.0 or 5.2 require skill? Unless you think paladin healing has been awful all expansion? The only thing that has made healing awful this expansion is the sheer amount of raid CD's a 25 man is capable of and our disc overlords.

[Henriksson]

Disc overlords.

Bow down to our masters

[Freia]

The only thing skillful about paladin's is how you manage your personal throughput CD's. The basic rotation of EF or SH is not hard. The only difference between the 2 is you actually have to pick a target with EF, which if that is what skillful is to you then I disagree. With that, how did EF in 5.0 or 5.2 require skill? Unless you think paladin healing has been awful all expansion? The only thing that has made healing awful this expansion is the sheer amount of raid CD's a 25 man is capable of and our disc overlords.

You want to insert more words into my post? At no point did I say EF blanketing required a ton of skill. You can go ahead and think EF takes as little as SH, and we can just agree to disagree. SH relies completely on smart healing. Its a stupid playstyle that I do not like.

[Deleted]

The only thing skillful about paladin's is how you manage your personal throughput CD's. The basic rotation of EF or SH is not hard. The only difference between the 2 is you actually have to pick a target with EF, which if that is what skillful is to you then I disagree. With that, how did EF in 5.0 or 5.2 require skill? Unless you think paladin healing has been awful all expansion? The only thing that has made healing awful this expansion is the sheer amount of raid CD's a 25 man is capable of and our disc overlords.

The skill in healing has always been about who you actually heal, only this expansion has it shifted towards being cooldown management. Even now you will probably not be able to see the difference in skill between someone in a top 2000 guild and someone in a top 10 guild by just looking at cooldowns. The reason for that is quite simple, cooldowns are mostly a joke atm and requires little to no thought at all, for example on Iron Juggernaunt, Galakras, Siegecrafter, Norushen, Malkorok and Garrosh (pretty much half the bosses this tier) you will be using Holy Avenger on pull or within the first 20 seconds to optimize your healing. How that takes any skill at all I dont see.

Something like spirit link totem takes skill to use because it has range limitations and can be used when members of a raid is dying, devotion aura and all our healing cooldowns takes no skill at all because you will predetermine when to use them even before pulling the boss. Realisticly you wont be saving a single person with your guardian if you did it by reaction time, first you need to see the damage comming, then use guardian then use a heal, by that time the person is dead.