SOO normal feels like another LFR

[cyqu]

Yet no one has killed Garrosh? This just proves the hypocrisy of its too easy people.

garrosh is quite a step up from anything else in that instance on normal.

[SL1200]

Once you've downed a tier in hard mode. They should allow you to start the next tier in hard mode too. We might get a few less threads like this one here.

[Deleted]

So 13 faceroll bosses and a hard 14th boss isn't good design imo. Especially since first bosses drop BIS loot for many speccs.

If we need 3 months for 13/14 heroic and another 3 months for 14/14 heroic, it's bad design because like always, people will quit when progress is extremely hard. Look at Lei Shen, who once again was 3 steps more difficult than nearly all hardmodes in TOT. It killed a lot of guilds and progress should be a lot smoother. Every fight should be challenging. Of course end bosses should be more challenging, but not from 1 hour progress to 40 hours progress. I can imagine that the first SOO bosses will be faceroll on heroic (in a sense like 2 hours progress only).

[Frozendekay]

4 hours for 11/14 and we went pretty slowly. It was slightly easier than I expected but honestly, we were like 550 avg ilvl as a guild before we stepped foot in there. How hard is it really going to be with that kind of gear?

[Nobleshield]

Which is exactly the mistake they made with T12/T13 - aim it at the previous tier's normal mode ilvl and many guilds will stomp it in 2 weeks, get bored of the relative brickwall HC bosses and quit...esp. all those who stopped at 12/12 normal or 1/13 HC. Those guilds are supposed to have normals as their progression and flex as the mindless farm. At the very least it should've been 530, ie. normal gear with upgrades. (which is kinda what it was for ToT normal)

Wait so... a tier's normal mode should be tuned for the last tier's HEROIC mode, so the fraction of heroic guilds don't stomp normal in a week? What. The. Fuck? I don't even... I can't even fathom what kind of logic that is. No, T16 should have been tuned for ~520 or so, mostly T15 normal gear. What, you expect guilds that didn't clear T15 normal to not do T16 normal for a while, or get kicked into Flex for a while? That doesn't happen anymore and hasn't for years.

[Deleted]

So 13 faceroll bosses and a hard 14th boss isn't good design imo. Especially since first bosses drop BIS loot for many speccs.

Are you 13/14? Just curious. Sounds like you are.

[Deleted]

Normal modes shouldn't be tuned for top 200 guilds, and apparently they aren't except few end bosses.
Typical raider that cleared normal mode in TOT, has cloak and maybe downed 1-3 easy heroics is around item level 530-535. This is what it's tuned for.
If you enter the instance with full raid of 550 geared players and realm-first heroic kill experience, what the fuck do you expect? If you would be "challenged" by those first few bosses, normal raiding guilds would have no chance at all in their normal mode TOT gear. Stat ramp from normal to HC gear is just too sharp.
End bosses are different story - they are tuned for people who killed fair share of normal bosses before it, had couple of weeks of "farm" content and are, in majority, geared in normal mode SOO gear - that is item level 553, 561 with upgrades. Which is something close or slightly higher than what you world firsters have now.

Come back to this thread next reset, and say 13 out of 14 bosses are faceroll on heroic. You won't because the tuning will be much harsher, surpassing even your bis tot hc gear. IMO this is very good tuning by Blizzard - TOT was too hard on Normal in my opinion, at least on the beginning. We started it with 8/16 hc T14 cleared (500 ish avg ilevel of the raid) and we started hitting serious brickwalls as early as Horridon. Then council which was nerfed by 20% three days after instance got released. Next brickwall was on Megara, which also was nerfed by 15% or even 20 too. Two more months pass, blizzard released another 10-man nerf hotfix, nerfing like 5 bosses.

[Deleted]

Normal mode is always easy for geared people. With 2*14 bosses they can tune it so there's some bosses for everybody.

I suppose this is true. There are a lot of bosses to be killed either way, they can afford to have some easier ones.

[Drakoes]

If you feel that it's too easy, step up to HC next week and see if you can down just as much bosses. In all honesty, it's probably not going to happen for your average raider as it will demand a lot more from everyone. As always, HC raiders know that normal modes are far from an accurate representation of the difficulty blizzard is capable of throwing out to those who want the toughest challenges.

[Orion Antares]

ToT is tuned for 505~510s, but SoO seems to have much lower bar compared to it

The attention level requirement between Horridon and the first half of SoO is miles different.

Also, ToT was tuned for 505~510? Maybe the last two bosses but the rest felt tuned for sub-500 gear.

[Dukenukem]

The attention level requirement between Horridon and the first half of SoO is miles different.

Its same, burn adds than boss and profit. it just lack the numbers to kill person

[Deleted]

HC raiders stomping normal SoO.

More news @11

good quote & spot on.

[Orion Antares]

Its same, burn adds than boss and profit. it just lack the numbers to kill person

That's the point though, the numbers are lower so messing up doesn't kill people as easily. The goal being to allow for easier entry into the instance unlike with ToT.

I remember hitting Horridon with a 485 avg ilvl raid that first week. If people screwed up once on their interrupts or add priority, the raid wiped. This time they made those mechanics much more forgiving to those lower ilvl raids. What that means to the higher level raids is that people can roll the fights.

[Frolk]

HC raiders think normal is to easy
WOW IM SHOCKED, This has to be the first time it ever happen
Im gonna wait for the OP to come back and complain over that Garrosh or HC bosses are to hard and needs to be nerfed

[Simplexity]

Being ranked in the top 500 raiding guilds in the West is "nothing amazing at all"? Jesus H. Christ, what planet do you live on? The instance SHOULDN'T be tuned for heroic raiders on normal.

You of all people know that this forum is filled with users in top end guilds. Wasn't there just a poll and about 30-40% had cleared 13/13H in ToT?

I'm just saying ToT normal took us 3 weeks to clear, and there were a few bosses that took us over 10 attempts (Council, Tortos, Durumu, Iron Qon, Lei Shen). I think the only boss in normal ToT we one shot was Jin'rokh, where in SoO we one shot over half the bosses, and many guilds are having the same experience.

[MattCauthron]

I read all these posts and wonder if they are all from a 10 man perspective. From a 25 man perspective Throk (Fixed...) and Paragons are no faceroll, and one of our members who went to Defensetrate said Garrosh was no joke. Siege seems easier than Throk now from what I can tell.

Of course I'm not talking about days of progression like any challenging heroic mode boss, but you hardly walk in and one shot them either.

Perhaps we should go back to Sunwell style where every boss (Twins, Muru, Kil'Jaeden) was a painfully difficult experience requiring weeks per boss with few upgrades every week to help make the raid any better...

[Glorious Leader]

Wait so... a tier's normal mode should be tuned for the last tier's HEROIC mode, so the fraction of heroic guilds don't stomp normal in a week? What. The. Fuck? I don't even... I can't even fathom what kind of logic that is. No, T16 should have been tuned for ~520 or so, mostly T15 normal gear. What, you expect guilds that didn't clear T15 normal to not do T16 normal for a while, or get kicked into Flex for a while? That doesn't happen anymore and hasn't for years.

Rule of thumb I usually apply in these circumstances is that if an activity is to easy for most of the folks on here then it's probably about right for everybody else in the game. Same for it being to time consuming and so forth.

[LL Hand J]

I can only speak for my guild. But from what I've seen 25m seems a little tougher later on in the raid. After killing Malkorok. The difficulty rose a few notches.

[MattCauthron]

We struggled for a good 45 min on Malkorak mostly due to fps issues. I personally dropped down to 0 fps on the pull and had to do most of the fight with 2-4. I would run at 25-30 on Lei Shen on Ultra. My system set up is pretty solid, but many of our raiders were literally unable to move for the first 15-20 seconds.

Our solution to killing the boss ended up being "Don't Blood Lust" since that's what made the game unplayable. Even without BL though it was difficult to react/move. I started looking up pc upgrades right after it went down >.<

[Aaldarius]

Just wondering, do legendary cloaks make a huge difference numbers-wise on the later bunch of progression (5/14 and on)?

My guild (10man) got about half a new raid team, mostly dps, and all of them don't have legendary cloaks (even pre-orange) and some do not even have meta's. I am worried that with so much of the guild low on legendary progression chain, it could hurt us in the long run. We beat Norushen with eight seconds remaining and got a few sub 5% wipes on Pride.

I'm pretty sure it's our raid comp but worried that the lack of legendary cleaves could hurt us on the middle SoO boss lineup.