[Massive Spoilers] Beyond 5.4

[Triptych]

I don't know what the ultimate fate of Garrosh is going to be, but I don't think that Blizzard will have him "executed" after a trial. That's just a little too grim for a game like Warcraft. Themes like capital punishment have never been touched on before, and I don't think they're going to start into it now. And it doesn't seem in keeping with the pandaren culture anyhow.

I guess there might be a trial by combat sort of thing, in which he's slain by his opponent, but I doubt it.

I hope they don't follow some sort of redemption storyline for him.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I think Dalaran will be returning to it's original sight (maybe not landing, but be in the area) as the beginning steps of hemming Sylvanis in.

This could then serve to make Hillsbrad contested with the Alliance having it's own quest series that would involve Dalaran and Crowley's Guerilla's foiling Forsaken plots and securing Alterac and Strahnbrad (I don't think they were used n the current quests, but it's been a while since I've checked.) for the Alliance. This gives a perfect chance for more Gilneas and Worgen lore (offer breadcrumb after you've helped the Night Elves with Darkshore, or if the level is appropriate right after Gilneas itself) and might even serve as a viable part of the High Elven intro to the Alliance.

Just brainstorming, not suggesting anything, but still. I would like to see a more fluid and evolving world. Instead of changing whole continents, why don't they just update or add a few zones a patch, as the story suits?

That hinges on Jaina going along with the plan. Which it sounds like she won't be. Blues had said there'd be a rift between her and Varian, and it seemed pretty clear she wanted the Horde Leaders' heads on pikes outside an Orgrimmar draped in Alliance flags.

[Orloth]

That hinges on Jaina going along with the plan. Which it sounds like she won't be. Blues had said there'd be a rift between her and Varian, and it seemed pretty clear she wanted the Horde Leaders' heads on pikes outside an Orgrimmar draped in Alliance flags.

True enough. I think they are going to do something with Dalaran and the Silver Covenant. I would hate for them to become another Scarlet Crusade, but it is certainly another option.

[spondy]

I think Dalaran will be returning to it's original sight (maybe not landing, but be in the area) as the beginning steps of hemming Sylvanis in.

This could then serve to make Hillsbrad contested with the Alliance having it's own quest series that would involve Dalaran and Crowley's Guerilla's foiling Forsaken plots and securing Alterac and Strahnbrad (I don't think they were used n the current quests, but it's been a while since I've checked.) for the Alliance. This gives a perfect chance for more Gilneas and Worgen lore (offer breadcrumb after you've helped the Night Elves with Darkshore, or if the level is appropriate right after Gilneas itself) and might even serve as a viable part of the High Elven intro to the Alliance.

Just brainstorming, not suggesting anything, but still. I would like to see a more fluid and evolving world. Instead of changing whole continents, why don't they just update or add a few zones a patch, as the story suits?

That's a really good idea actually. You know how Jaina has changed and sicne she is in control of Dalaran, who knows, maybe since that is there next step she will move it? The only problem I could forsee would be since alot of people use it as their Capital City, woudl they keep it in Northrend and just move it their for the patch temporarily to get Gilneas City back into the hands of the Alliance?

One of the developers actually said that they considered moving Dalaran to Orgrimmar for the instance, just in the instance, not in the outside world. So obviously its possible and maybe they are saving that idea for 5.5?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

True enough. I think they are going to do something with Dalaran and the Silver Covenant. I would hate for them to become another Scarlet Crusade, but it is certainly another option.

I think they'll slide back toward what Theramore was. An "alliance" faction that is pretty much seperate from the faction itself.

Except instead of promoting peace, they'll be the ones fielding all the soldiers in S. Barrens.

[rcshaggy]

I think they'll slide back toward what Theramore was. An "alliance" faction that is pretty much seperate from the faction itself.

Except instead of promoting peace, they'll be the ones fielding all the soldiers in S. Barrens.

Well Dustwallow Marsh despite now, it still has that place with the Stonemaul Ogres, Theramore is in ruins, a chance to have a new Alliance foward base in the zone for the remembrance of the former lives.

That would make the place still able to go to, but as a twist you get to see the ghosts of the former lives there and they want peace for being wrongly killed and the Alliance brings them to let them bring judgement for Garr.
A lot of stuff can happen for World of Warcraft, but Blizzard sometimes doesn't take the chance to do it.

[Orloth]

I think they'll slide back toward what Theramore was. An "alliance" faction that is pretty much seperate from the faction itself.

Except instead of promoting peace, they'll be the ones fielding all the soldiers in S. Barrens.

Thing is, though, while Jaina may have interest in what's going on in Kalimdor post Siege, the rest of the Kiren'tor and the Silver Covenant are far more invested in what's going on in Northern Lordaeron. While Varian did say they need a new outpost in Theremore, I have a feeling is going to pick someone very specifically pro peace to sit in such politically delicate seat. He doesn't need Jaina hauling off and nuking Thunder Bluff in a hissy fit. On the other hand, if she did the same to the Undercity the Horde as it is now would look the other way. Sylvanis has not earned herself any new friends.

Add to that, the conditions which led to Garrosh's success as Warchief have not changed. The orcs are still living in near poverty, even more so if they have to concede the Resources they gain from Ashenvale. It'll be some time before any reasonable solution is figured out between the Orcs and the Night Elves. While an Alliance military presence in Mid-Southern Barrens benefits the Alliance, it will make the Orcs grumble that at least under Garrosh they were well fed.

Garrosh likely has a life of philosophical discussions with a long line of willing Panderen (and others) ahead of him, until his followers in the Dragonmaw and Blackrock clans (and any from Orgrimmar that leave the Horde) muster up the means to break him free. This is a purposefully laid future plot hook, that I don't think they will use soon, but could use eventually (like Bolvar).

[IdTheDemon]

I can imagine 5.5 being another daily patch, focusing on 4 small storylines that all relate to Garrosh in some way.

For the Alliance:

1) The Alliance reinforce Gilneas to reclaim it for the Worgen. After all, it was Garrosh who told Sylvanas to attack Gilneas in order to estalblish a Horde port for Lordaeron. Genn Greymane and Packleader Ivar Bloodfang make their questing return. In the end, the Forsaken are pushed out of Gilneas back to the middle of Silverpine Forest.

2) Jaina continues to flex her Dalaran muscle. She sends Dalaran reinforcements to Dustwallow Marsh to rebuild Theramore. In the end, Jaina gives the Alliance a stronger foothold on east Kalimdor with Theramore's replacement which is a Dalaran themed town.


For the Horde:

1) Vol'jin focuses on repairing Orgrimmar and finding suitable replacements to the many citizens who have died (ORC WARLOCK TRAINERS ). Gallywix makes his return and is a key asset in repairing the damage. In the end, not only is Orgrimmar functional again but the city looks much more welcoming as the many spikes that decorate the city are melted down.

2) Thrall, now back in the Horde but only as the Orc racial leader, hunts down the last of Garrosh's Dragonmaw who have fled to to Azshara. They try taking over Bilgewater Port so they can flee to the Twilight Highlands.

[Rhlor]

Lorthemar vs Jaina!!! he did not leave his people imprisoned in dalaran

[Orloth]

Lorthemar vs Jaina!!! he did not leave his people imprisoned in dalaran

Agreed. They came to a temporary accord on the Isle of Thunder, but their grievances are still many and valid on both sides.

Maybe Varian and Lor'themar will restart talks, with Lor'themar refusing to back away from the Horde, but certainly willing to help contain Sylvanis in return for the Sunreaver prisoners out of the Violet Hold.

[Jokubas]

That hinges on Jaina going along with the plan. Which it sounds like she won't be. Blues had said there'd be a rift between her and Varian, and it seemed pretty clear she wanted the Horde Leaders' heads on pikes outside an Orgrimmar draped in Alliance flags.

A rift, yes, but I don't think that means she'd be genocidal. Kosak was tweeting about her not being evil. I think they intend for her to just provide some depth to the Alliance. A character who will actually point out when the Horde do nasty things, and not just ignore everything like has been happening. I could see her lashing out if Varian doesn't keep an eye on her, but I think she'd need an excuse, no matter how small. Remember, in the cutscene, she says "dismantle," not destroy, kill, or massacre. I think it's more that she doesn't trust the Horde as a world power than she wants every individual dead. Getting your city nuked, your best friends killed, and your trust betrayed can turn you into one majorly bitter person, but no one's personality shifts that much.

[Duronos]

Wait a moment, Garrosh does all of this but Sylvanas practically destroyed Gilneas and gets off scott free? I'm a bit confused here.

[Drikkink]

Wait a moment, Garrosh does all of this but Sylvanas practically destroyed Gilneas and gets off scott free? I'm a bit confused here.

She fought a fairer war against an (arguably) legitimate military target. Theramore was a (mostly) peaceful city that was taken out by the equivalent of a nuke.

Also, forcing your own people into slavery isn't something Sy... well, I guess she does. But she definitely doesn't destroy all surrounding environments and... oh wait she does that too.

BUT ANTI-HERO

[Jokubas]

Wait a moment, Garrosh does all of this but Sylvanas practically destroyed Gilneas and gets off scott free? I'm a bit confused here.

She attacked Gilneas under Garrosh's orders... but used the plague against them. Honestly, the whole time that they've been making such a big deal out of Garrosh has bugged me because of what Sylvanas has done. Even Garrosh thought her plague was an atrocity. That's why I'm hoping that her implied reactions to this situation (assuming those reports are real since no one has posted screenshots as far as I'm aware), are a sign that Blizzard realizes that she's no angel and does not fit in an honorable Horde.

[GoldNSilence]

So the Orcs get Thrall back as their faction leader or maybe Saurfang?

[Duronos]

She attacked Gilneas under Garrosh's orders... but used the plague against them. Honestly, the whole time that they've been making such a big deal out of Garrosh has bugged me because of what Sylvanas has done. Even Garrosh thought her plague was an atrocity. That's why I'm hoping that her implied reactions to this situation (assuming those reports are real since no one has posted screenshots as far as I'm aware), are a sign that Blizzard realizes that she's no angel and does not fit in an honorable Horde.

This is starting to sound a bit like Syria...

Also I noticed she didn't bow to Vol'jin in the cinematic.

[Schaden]

How I would go about it...

- Varian has hinted that the Alliance's next focus (until the next Big Bad rolls in) is going to be 'containing' Sylvanas. And unless Varian wants to kick start a brand-new war with the Horde, containment is all he can do. Cleaning out and establishing Gilneas, as well as Dalaran returning to the south (IF Jaina can be talked into it) neatly pins Sylvanas into Tirisfal with her only means of expansion being into the former Plaguelands. With the Ebon Blade and the Argent Crusade forces camped there, its not likely she'll be able to do much.

- Vol'jin and Sylvanas will probably not want Gilneas restored. Pure and simple, an Alliance capital right in the Forsaken's backyard is bad. Quel'thalas is on the far side of the Plaguelands, so Undercity is the Horde's only powerful presence in the Eastern Kingdoms and its got a lot of guns pointed at it. And while the Horde is struggling to pull itself back together, it's not in his or the Horde's interest to let the Alliance think it can essentially embargo one of its member states with impunity. Vol'jin has to walk the line between showing strength and solidarity with the Forsaken towards the Alliance, and not going so far as to start a conflict. Yet at the same time, Sylvanas IS dangerous and a wild card. Keeping her reigned in is also good for Vol'jin as well. And if the Alliance are volunteering...

- Sylvanas will NOT take this well. How well the unspoken threats of a reclaimed Gilneas keep her behaving is up in the air. Her patience, though, will not last forever. And if she feels backed into a corner, she's going to do something stupid.

- Jaina will NOT take this well, either. Being on the doorstep of the Forsaken and being forced to play guard dog will eat at her patience quickly. And if she feels that Varian isn't addressing the threat of Sylvanas correctly... (Genn and the worgen aren't going to help dissuade her of the idea either, I bet)

- Jaina and Sylvanas go at each other with hammer and tongs. Both Vol'jin and Varian don't want this to escalate into another open war, especially for unstable/unhinged allies, but can't really stand back and let it happen.

- In the middle of the catfight of the millenium, the new big bad shows up with Starbucks.

[Rhlor]

Agreed. They came to a temporary accord on the Isle of Thunder, but their grievances are still many and valid on both sides.

Maybe Varian and Lor'themar will restart talks, with Lor'themar refusing to back away from the Horde, but certainly willing to help contain Sylvanis in return for the Sunreaver prisoners out of the Violet Hold.

Jaina does not seem someone willing to negotiate. confrontation will inevitably

[Drikkink]

This is starting to sound a bit like Syria...

Also I noticed she didn't bow to Vol'jin in the cinematic.

She nodded her head, which is an acknowledgment at least. She never was the "bow down" type... to anyone.

[Cayumi]

This is how it'll go:

1. The Burning Legion comes.
2. Garrosh redeems himself to the horde and alliance against the Legion (like his father).
3. Jaina goes monkey ass bananas.
4. Jaina joines Burning Legion.
5. Jaina actually kills Garrosh.
6. We kill Jaina.
7. Loot.