Purified Bindings of Immerseus

[Noradin]

You gear DPS first. Healers don't need gear. This is ... normal information I thought? :s

This is misleading. Of course your healers need gear, they just don't need the new gear while first processing in an new raid first.

This gearing strategy only works if you stay around after the progression and make sure they catch up gear wise - which is something that might not work in casual raids (it might work but those whoe already got gear will most likely complaind, be inattentive, or even fail to show up), thus this gearing strategy is not recommended for them.

It also assumes that your raid group makes less mistakes than the encounter is balanced for in regards to healer output, which is most likely true for the progression guilds, but for many others it might not be true. Gearing your healers up first can be advisable if your raid likes to stand in the fire.

[veiledy0]

You gear DPS first, 'cause better DPS means bosses die faster, which requires healers to spend less mana, while gearing healers doesn't help the DPS in any way, 'cause it's not like I can just stand in fire more and loose less DPS to movement if my healers can heal for more. It's just simple as that.

[Noradin]

It's just simple as that.

No sorry it is not :P

[Frmercury]

No sorry it is not :P

It has been a proven formula for success for expansions now. You / your guild may not do it this way but it's been a common practice among top guilds.

[Anastacy]

It has been a proven formula for success for expansions now. You / your guild may not do it this way but it's been a common practice among top guilds.

Top guilds are the only guilds that play.

/rolls eyes

A guild can gear their raid however they see fit. There is no wrong or right and to be so judgmental over something so trivial is like "first world problems," yo.

[justflayin]

Top guilds are the only guilds that play.

/rolls eyes

A guild can gear their raid however they see fit. There is no wrong or right and to be so judgmental over something so trivial is like "first world problems," yo.

Extra healing normally doesn't allow you to beat an enrage. Only fights I can think of for that are the healer specific ones (Tsulong, Dreamwalker) Even still those fights provide massive buffs to healing.

[Frmercury]

Top guilds are the only guilds that play.

/rolls eyes

A guild can gear their raid however they see fit. There is no wrong or right and to be so judgmental over something so trivial is like "first world problems," yo.

What is your problem? I said you / your guild may or may not do it that way. I didn't say it was the only path to success nor claim that there's something wrong with you if you didn't. Hell my guild doesn't.

There was absolutely zero cause to react like that and speaks to your own bias and insecurities.

Try actually reading a post next time before responding to it.

[Noradin]

It has been a proven formula for success for expansions now. You / your guild may not do it this way but it's been a common practice among top guilds.

Yes, among top guilds, but not generally, which is the point I'm trying to make.
In fact, I think it can potentially destroy other guilds/raids, since the unequal equipment status creates tension and you cannot tell me you never had problems with players who already had all the gear they desired showing no more interest in running the instance to equip others. Sometimes its just tension or a bad raid climate, sometimes they start to miss raids, and sometimes they even try and get into 'higher' raids with their gear.
It's just an ill advised practice to copy from top guilds (who don't have that problem because (those) people try to get into them) and not necessary anyway. Most of the time the problems you create in your group more than offset any benefit that gearing strategy yields to the raid.
Which is why I said 'it is not that simple'; raid groups aren't played by a automate and not by only one person. It's a multiplayer game so you have to keep group dynamics in mind and it has been shown again and again that loot has a huge impact on those.

[Frmercury]

There are as many ways to run a guild as there are guilds ofc.

The original discussion was about gear and that's what I was talking about. While the word 'gear' is in almost every sentence of your reply you're talking about guild dynamics and the different feelings and motivations players have. I was not attempting to comment on that, was only giving a +1 to the numerically superior method of gear distribution being referred to in previous posts.

Just to clarify.

[Noradin]

Yes, I understand that, but the post from me which you quoted originally was to point out how the (theoretical) nummerically superiour method of gear distribution was not all there is to gear distribution. I'm not saying that method is wrong or would not work, I'm just pointing out that other factors have to be taken into consideration and might even outweight the supposed nummerical benefit of that method.

Note that I use "theoretical" and "supposed", since this method does not account for the group dynamics lood distribution causes, which would be possible to do even if the more effective method is just keeping them in mind. All of these are only models and predictions after all, they contain uncertainties and might get missused.
Especially the reduction of problems to the seemingly simplest numerical representation with the exclusion of all part that are harder to put into exact numbers has a long and rich history of being misunderstood and abused.

[Bonkura]

People who say it's not good for Warlocks until higher gear level (as in heroic SoO gear) are full of shit. After I got it on my Lock I've been playing mostly Demo, for which it's amazing and a whooping 9k DPS increase, making Demo my best spec on single target fights. It's not a DPS upgrade as Affli atm but it's still close to heroic ToT trinkets (which everyone don't have access to).

All casters are stacking seconday stats already, making it a good trinket for all classes. You can argue Spriests/Boomkins/Eleshams benefit more from it, but hey, guess what? Warlocks and Mages usually shit on hybrid caster damage, meaning they should get prio on gear in general.

[Deleted]

All casters are stacking seconday stats already, making it a good trinket for all classes. You can argue Spriests/Boomkins/Eleshams benefit more from it, but hey, guess what? Warlocks and Mages usually shit on hybrid caster damage, meaning they should get prio on gear in general.

such a statement coming from a a warlock? what a surprise...

[Bonkura]

such a statement coming from a a warlock? what a surprise...

I play priest too. Sorry for being realistic.

[Sillychan]

No sorry it is not :P

Yes, actually, it is.

Healers benefit less from gear than DPS do, and most of the worst checks early in a tier are DPS. There's no benefit in gearing a healer first, none at all.

[Anastacy]

Yes, actually, it is.

Healers benefit less from gear than DPS do, and most of the worst checks early in a tier are DPS. There's no benefit in gearing a healer first, none at all.

Some people run guilds in which they don't necessarily care how fast they progess, so long as everyone in their raid is having fun. Part of that is keeping loot distribution "fair" and interesting for everyone involved, ie a healer thinking, "Cool, I'll get my 2piece soon!"

I know that's hard for a lot of you to understand, but I've been in such guilds a time or two, and if a healer got a 4piece before a DPS'er, we were all still happy for the healer.

It's this "I'm always right and my way is the best" mode of thinking that hinders people from believing that a LOT of people just play to play and try to have fun.

- - - Updated - - -

What is your problem? I said you / your guild may or may not do it that way. I didn't say it was the only path to success nor claim that there's something wrong with you if you didn't. Hell my guild doesn't.

There was absolutely zero cause to react like that and speaks to your own bias and insecurities.

Try actually reading a post next time before responding to it.

I think the problem is you taking things personaly. Despite quoting you directly, I was being very general in my statement. Sorry that it wasn't all about you.

[Frmercury]

Now I just see you were a complete waste of time to even reply to as you appear to be searching out posts that allow you to be a contrarian, adding nothing to the actual conversation at hand. I'm the one who owes everyone else an apology for even replying to your post in the first place.

[Anastacy]

Now I just see you were a complete waste of time to even reply to as you appear to be searching out posts that allow you to be a contrarian, adding nothing to the actual conversation at hand. I'm the one who owes everyone else an apology for even replying to your post in the first place.

And again, you're making it personal. Congrats!

I quoted you mostly because you did say different guilds operate differently with their loot systems. But you still took that stance that what top end guilds do by funneling gear to DPS is the right way, otherwisr why mention what top end guilds are doing? Guilds that are not focused on progression probably don't give two shits what BL, Method, and all the wannabes do.

It's pretty simple: if your guild is progression minded, funnel gear to DPS. If it's a "carebear stare!", happy, let's-have-fun guild then feel free to /roll on every piece. Neither method is wrong or right, except within their own individual contexts.

Why is this shit even being discussed? I certainly don't care how random_guild001 gears thei raid.

[Noradin]

Yes, actually, it is.

Healers benefit less from gear than DPS do, and most of the worst checks early in a tier are DPS. There's no benefit in gearing a healer first, none at all.

Please read the other post concerning that quote... repeting the same lengthy thing because the same question turned up again with slightly different wording wouldn't hel anyone
And whoever brought up gearing healers first? You are the first to mention it.

[Sillychan]

I am not the first to mention it. I was replying to what Veiled was replying to.

Regardless, this is a DPS trinket now that it only procs for DPS. There's no real point in giving it to a healer (other than a monk, but we'll see if that's hotfixed). Hybrids are getting some benefit from this, but if it's not a) a DPS, or b) a MW Monk, this trinket does not belong to them at this time. It's a waste of a good trinket for someone else.

But If you want to give out DPS spec gear to healers in the name of fun, that's your prerogative I guess.

[Noradin]

"Not gearing dps first" is not the same as "gearing healers first".
And while this trinket turned out to be useful for DPS only, the assumption that it should work for smiting was resonable with what information was available ingame.

I'm not saying that it should not go to a DPS spec with the information now available, just pointing out where agruments made in this thread might lead to wrong conclusions if just transferred to other topics as is often done.

Things like "always give loot to dps (with) first (priority)" and "only some (arbitrarly assinged) numberical advatage counts" (even if it might be miniscule) will lead to problems in any MMO. It is unwise to follow such a gearing strategy if you have nothing to offset their (no always obvious) disadvantages.
If you just let those stand because they don't matter anyway in this case you will find them cited in any number of other thread where the might count even if wrong.
Also, adding unnecessary, easily contestable arguments weakens you position, thus they should always get addressed.