Welfare Legendary

[Druidjezus]

Hahaha, you actually think you glean information from an armory. You're pretty funny. Please do go on.

To be fair, linking an armory page in your signature would make it reasonable to assume that it is at least one of your characters even if not your main, and then one can see by the achievement dates that you've never done successful heroic raiding while it was current content unless you have a separate battle.net account. So, while he may be wrong, I'd say you're the one whose funny for randomly having someone else's armory link in your signature?

[BobAwesome]

Why do you care what other peoples gear is? Why don't you narrow your scope of value down to yourself and your immediate associates rather than worrying about what a perfect stranger on the intardwebs has? You could stop making knee jerk assumptions about people you don't know or you could continue to fuel this toxic community.

Becuas he ate too much paste.

[Otimus]

not sure what sales figures are now, nor does atvi genearlly share digital sale data unless they really want to - counterpoint, bot replacement accounts probably skew it up too. western subs couild very easily be below 4m now, but many of those woul dhave had the mop box.

I don't know either, but woudln't surprise me if 500k+ western subs still didn't have MOP.

If I recall correctly, the 2.whatever million at launch, they did say a large portion (IIRC, 4:1) were digital sales. So.. that's sort of close to having vague sales numbers. Sort of.

[Monteverdi]

You know I try to post up some rational thoughts and all you guys can do is just continue to pummel eachother with your words. I hate the internet.

[RickJamesLich]

The welfare legendary is a derogatory term based on real world welfare, that being you 'do nothing' for a reward. The intention is to be insulting. It would be no different than me living in my 5 million dollar mansion calling a suburbanite in a 300 thousand dollar home 'trailer trash'. "Who let this Trailor trash on our golf course?".

Most people don't have this cloak yet, evident by my medum pop server only killing Ordos on Tuesdays. You either get an Ordos group on tuesday or you are SOL for that week. I have it from Regular raids and LFR and I know I earned it with 18 months of effort. I don't care how other people get it because I don't base my self worth on what others can or can't do.

The whole notion of "you did very little and got the cape" stems from LFR, yes, I agree, it's probably not intended to be a good thing. Blizz IMO didn't give out a weapon, instead rather a cloak, despite a history of legendaries always being weapons just because of the LFR association. It's pretty much an extension of "should a legendary item be available from LFR?" To be fair, many will say they worked hard for it, but if you logged in on Tuesday last week and saw, at least for me, about 200 people get it in the first hour.... doesn't make it a very exciting item, does it? I don't know if this item will ever really get respect though after the LFR stuff.

[BobAwesome]

To be fair, linking an armory page in your signature would make it reasonable to assume that it is at least one of your characters even if not your main, and then one can see by the achievement dates that you've never done successful heroic raiding while it was current content unless you have a separate battle.net account. So, while he may be wrong, I'd say you're the one whose funny for randomly having someone else's armory link in your signature?

Psst, I'm not the one calling others bads

[DeadmanWalking]

The whole notion of "you did very little and got the cape" stems from LFR, yes, I agree, it's probably not intended to be a good thing. Blizz IMO didn't give out a weapon, instead rather a cloak, despite a history of legendaries always being weapons just because of the LFR association. It's pretty much an extension of "should a legendary item be available from LFR?" To be fair, many will say they worked hard for it, but if you logged in on Tuesday last week and saw, at least for me, about 200 people get it in the first hour.... doesn't make it a very exciting item, does it? I don't know if this item will ever really get respect though after the LFR stuff.

I don't base the value of my achievements on how many other people have accomplished it. I only care about my effort and the achievements of my friends and guildies. This is mainly because I'm not shallow or toxic.

[Druidjezus]

You know I try to post up some rational thoughts and all you guys can do is just continue to pummel eachother with your words. I hate the internet.

That's how conversations on the internet work, it's an interesting phenomenon. Someone had a meme about it I think went something like this:

Two guys talking at a coffee table:
Guy A: We're going to be selling bagels in addition to pastries
Guy B: That's great, people should be happy with having bagels as an alternative

Same convo on the internet:
Guy A tweets: We're going to be selling bagels in addition to pastries
Guy B responds: WTF!? Why are you phasing out pastries?

[BobAwesome]

You know what would be interesting? If you took all the people who claim LFR is bad, easy and killing the game right? Give them gear that meets the bare minimum requirements to queue. Now, this is where things get fun, they're not allowed to use any voice communication, nor are they allowed to watch videos or read about the fights before hand. Maybe you can let them use the dungeon journal. I'd pay to see a group of people clear that raid. Lets see how easy it is for then. That's how it is for the majority that play this game.

[Voolawl]

I don't base the value of my achievements on how many other people have accomplished it. I only care about my effort and the achievements of my friends and guildies. This is mainly because I'm not shallow or toxic.

Bro, we get it. You learned the word toxic. You don't have to use it in almost every post of yours in the last 3 pages.

[Druidjezus]

You know what would be interesting? If you took all the people who claim LFR is bad, easy and killing the game right? Give them gear that meets the bare minimum requirements to queue. Now, this is where things get fun, they're not allowed to use any voice communication, nor are they allowed to watch videos or read about the fights before hand. Maybe you can let them use the dungeon journal. I'd pay to see a group of people clear that raid. Lets see how easy it is for then. That's how it is for the majority that play this game.

I assure you, still ridiculously easy. If you don't believe me, just crunch the numbers of how much dps/hps it takes to do the fights in LFR, and figure that any skilled player will naturally know to stay out of shit on the ground.

Now, if they made a fight that required staying IN shit on the ground or you died, that might wipe them once or twice, but then if it actually killed you it wouldn't be LFR.

I get what you're hinting at, I really do, LFR will of course seem like a joke to players well beyond the target audience, but it's just that your way of stating it is all wrong. The numbers in LFR are tuned such that it cannot possibly be challenging. If you don't believe me, next time you're in LFR SoO and kill a boss, look at what the average dps per person is. Then consider that at 496 ilvl heroic raider's single target dps was about ~140k and that they'll be at a MINIMUM at least as skilled at target switching, not standing in crap and picking up adds as your LFR group.

I can tell you my Sha of Pride LFR group last night did not have that high of damage, we still killed the boss in one attempt, and people died to standing in stupid starting at 70%

[DeadmanWalking]

You know what would be interesting? If you took all the people who claim LFR is bad, easy and killing the game right? Give them gear that meets the bare minimum requirements to queue. Now, this is where things get fun, they're not allowed to use any voice communication, nor are they allowed to watch videos or read about the fights before hand. Maybe you can let them use the dungeon journal. I'd pay to see a group of people clear that raid. Lets see how easy it is for then. That's how it is for the majority that play this game.

I think it would be interesting if people who complain about the gear in LFR actually tried on a full set of LFR gear and compared its performance to the gear they get in raids. Only then would they see the difference in crappy LFR gear is to raid gear. Its not that the gear has purple words and its not that the gear looks like theirs, its the performance that the gear gives which really makes a difference. No one is going to invite a LFR geared person to a heroic raid, the difference is the same as the difference between a Porche and a Pinto. If you can't tell the difference then you can't be helped.

There are two types of LFR players, the kinds that farm it for valor and gear and the kinds that get a little valor and gear here and there but don't really care if they are maxed out. The ones who are in mismatched gear and dont max out valor every week to buy every piece of valor gear did not beat Wrathion and have the legendary cloak on day 1 of 5.4. That Valor gear gave the LFR raider the ilevels they needed to beat him. There is a huge difference in performance between a full suit of 530's and a mismatched set of 502.

Those people who got the cloak on day 1 earned it, regardless of how many got it or in what level of difficulty that they did it in. If anything some of these things were more difficult because LFR gear performance put you at a disadvantage as opposed to someone in raid gear. Only those who were serious about maxing out LFR had a chance. Everyone doesn't have one. Everyone won't have one.

Place value in an item based on your own personal efforts, don't put value in something based on how many other people have it. If you were on a heroic only raid server everyone would have it and that would not make it any less legendary. The main problem people have with this is that nobody is stroking their ego by telling them they are awesome for having it. Shallow people can't feel good about themselves without someone elses affirmation. I don't need someone else drooling over my gear to feel good about playing wow. This behavior is the worst toxic behavior plaguing this games community and forums.

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Bro, we get it. You learned the word toxic. You don't have to use it in almost every post of yours in the last 3 pages.

You don't get to decide how many times I use the word Toxic. If you don't like it you are free to stop reading the forums.

[Mhyroth]

You know what would be interesting? If you took all the people who claim LFR is bad, easy and killing the game right? Give them gear that meets the bare minimum requirements to queue. Now, this is where things get fun, they're not allowed to use any voice communication, nor are they allowed to watch videos or read about the fights before hand. Maybe you can let them use the dungeon journal. I'd pay to see a group of people clear that raid. Lets see how easy it is for then. That's how it is for the majority that play this game.

Just no.
Those people where you talk about are those who make guides... They have a better understanding of how mechanics/bosses/classes/spells work then the average Joe in LFR. THEY are the ones who make it easier for the LFR runner by explaining the mechanics AS EASY AS POSSIBLE in a guide on the internet. All you have to do is use Google for 5 minutes and you can run LFR without wipes/deaths. Fact is that the LFR runners are to lazy to even Google, so why even bother to make guides anymore or help them out? Let's see how far they get without the help of them. Gear has nothing to do with it, because the raids were made intentionally for those gearlevels. Remember 1st LFR week of MoP ? When people barely had heroic dungeon gear to get into LFR ? At least they tried to push and improve to kill the boss. Now they expect things to die instantly because they got some epics.

[RickJamesLich]

I don't base the value of my achievements on how many other people have accomplished it. I only care about my effort and the achievements of my friends and guildies. This is mainly because I'm not shallow or toxic.

I don't think there's anything shallow about saying there should be some sort of exclusive factor in achievements. I think the thing is, when everyone else can do the same achievement, the question is, is it still an achievement? How many people do you know that actually marked out and went crazy after they got the cloak? Seriously, on my server nobody really said anything, they just got their cloak and moved along - not really a legendary item from that perspective.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

I think the reasoning behind it is because anybody can get them, as long as they put in enough time to do so.

Anyone could get the others, as long as they put in enough time to do so.

[Voolawl]

You don't get to decide how many times I use the word Toxic. If you don't like it you are free to stop reading the forums.

But then where would I get to read all this juicy casuals drama? This is prime time television right here.

[Perkunas]

Anyone could get the others, as long as they put in enough time to do so.

Sure, yup... You could totally convince a guild that you deserved to collect the shards of Val as some random guy over their raiding Holy Paladin... Do you people even think before you post this tripe?

[BobAwesome]

Just no.
Those people where you talk about are those who make guides... They have a better understanding of how mechanics/bosses/classes/spells work then the average Joe in LFR. THEY are the ones who make it easier for the LFR runner by explaining the mechanics AS EASY AS POSSIBLE in a guide on the internet. All you have to do is use Google for 5 minutes and you can run LFR without wipes/deaths. Fact is that the LFR runners are to lazy to even Google, so why even bother to make guides anymore or help them out? Let's see how far they get without the help of them. Gear has nothing to do with it, because the raids were made intentionally for those gearlevels. Remember 1st LFR week of MoP ? When people barely had heroic dungeon gear to get into LFR ? At least they tried to push and improve to kill the boss. Now they expect things to die instantly because they got some epics.

No, I can assure you, the people who make the guides and have the understanding of how the games mechanics work, don't give a single fuck about LFR and this whole casual shitshow. They just play the game and have fun and love to number crunch. The people who are bitching about LFR and "casuals" are the people who don't understand the games mechanics, they only read about it and emulate what those who do understand the game, and write the guides, do. Those wannabe heroic people that are calling others bad are doing so because they think, that since the other person isn't doing what they're doing (which is just copying someone better than them) they're bad... obviously right?

[DeadmanWalking]

Just no.
Those people where you talk about are those who make guides... They have a better understanding of how mechanics/bosses/classes/spells work then the average Joe in LFR. THEY are the ones who make it easier for the LFR runner by explaining the mechanics AS EASY AS POSSIBLE in a guide on the internet. All you have to do is use Google for 5 minutes and you can run LFR without wipes/deaths. Fact is that the LFR runners are to lazy to even Google, so why even bother to make guides anymore or help them out? Let's see how far they get without the help of them. Gear has nothing to do with it, because the raids were made intentionally for those gearlevels. Remember 1st LFR week of MoP ? When people barely had heroic dungeon gear to get into LFR ? At least they tried to push and improve to kill the boss. Now they expect things to die instantly because they got some epics.

I am someone who studies the fights and I have friends who only LFR that ask me to go into LFR to explain the strats in vent at the beginning of each fight and call out points of interest. But I will say this about the guides, the video guides are all crap and the written ones are typically walls of text that the majority of people hate to read.

The video guides are usually a video of a 25 man guild fighting a boss while someone tells you about the mechanics but you can't understand a damn thing happening in the fight. Its just magical effects going off, unknown classes moving around and occaisionally the boss stomps.

The text guides are better, but the majority of people out there hate reading things, which is evident in the amount of players who just smash accept during questing and have no clue what to do.

Yeah, the video guides are shitty.

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But then where would I get to read all this juicy casuals drama? This is prime time television right here.

Well then by all means add some intellectual discussion to the thread or stop trying to derail it by being the sites word count program.

[Monteverdi]

Well then by all means add some intellectual discussion to the thread or stop trying to derail it by being the sites word count program.

Any time I've seen anyone try to add any reasonable discussion, everyone (including you) just bypasses it entirely and goes back to arguing.