Dire Beast vs. Thrill of the Hunt

[Bluesftw]

ToTH just gives that smoth feel with focus , love it

[Beace]

Auto shot #1, AS #2?

So its his top skill (atleast if u check WoL/recount, though skada will list pet under dmg).

If you disregard anything from your pet, then yeah it's normal for AS to be #1. If you take your pet into account (which you should as far as I'm concerned), it's more like #3 or #4.

[anjan011]

I was with ToTH ever since it was introduced <3 i hate manually tracking direbeast CD.

ToTH procs a lot, hell, an AS on ToTH proc, can even proc another, replenishing ur max stack of 3

[Asuras]

Is it worth switching to Thrill of the Hunt with just 2pc T16 or should you wait for the CD Trinket before making the switch?

[Deleted]

You should switch regardless imo

[Woobels]

You should switch regardless imo

Even if you do not have 2set? That seems a little off lol.

[bendak]

I don't like how clunky and spammy things feel with Thrill of the Hunt. I can't deny its uses in AOE situations but for single target I still prefer Dire Beast. The two sim almost identically so it's really up to personal preference. I don't have 2 piece yet either, so that may change things...

[Asuras]

You should switch regardless imo

Right now its showing as a dps loss via Femaledwarf. :S

[apepi]

I have had TotH up so much it causes me to not have any focus so I had to change up my style in pvp.

[Windthorn]

Tried toth on garrosh , eventually went with Fervor for on demand burst - it wasn't proccing much and sometimes when it does proc you don't want it, it's not having control of you rotation, that said anyone got a WA (Weak auras 2) string to track it? Still not bought on it for ST, also noticed Rogerbrown isn't using it.

[timoseewho]

I've only played with TotH during PTR and almost certain that AS under TotH+BW is free, confirm/deny? Or does it cost 5f?

[Deleted]

it is free under BW, yes. So is MS. Having ToTH proccs during BW feels weird tho :P.

I've spent a couple of hours yesterday playing with SimC and ToTH/DB since I got the 2 pieces. Difference for me between both was around 1-2k in favor of TotH, both crit heavy or haste heavy. Also spent a lot of time trying to figure Stat weights and plotting stats, but every time I would get a different result (with ToTH). Every 1000 stat points I switched from haste to crit, vaules would change completely. Crit simmed higher until haste was as low as 8600. Then substracting or adding 100 haste was a DPS loss (in expense of crit, ofc)

[timoseewho]

Ah I totally forgot about MS with TotH under BW, thanks.

[Thalin]

I've always preferred Fervor to TotH when AoEing this expac. It's felt much more controlled and on demand which was better for me when doing cmodes as welll as raid encounters or trash. That being said, I'm always revisiting TotH to check it out especially now with the arcane shot changes, but I still don't like how clunky and random it can feel. Once I get two piece and AoC trinket I'll come back to it, but for now I'm sticking with DB for single target and fervor for aoe.

[Puerto]

I do not see where you all are getting your number from. If you are talking strictly single target DPS. Dire Beast is till hands down a DPS gain over ToTH or Fervor. Just look at Iron Juggernaut... all top parses are using Dire Beast.

[Perrito]

I do not see where you all are getting your number from. If you are talking strictly single target DPS. Dire Beast is till hands down a DPS gain over ToTH or Fervor. Just look at Iron Juggernaut... all top parses are using Dire Beast.

that mean nothing. you can still do good damage with dire beast isnt like thrill of the hunt is going to give you 20k dps.

[Effinhunter]

I do not see where you all are getting your number from. If you are talking strictly single target DPS. Dire Beast is till hands down a DPS gain over ToTH or Fervor. Just look at Iron Juggernaut... all top parses are using Dire Beast.

It's sometimes very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff on ideas here at MMO Champion. The preference for using TotH is completely intuition-based and not based on any useful theorycrafting or even parsing (especially in regards to BM). If AS was still buffed by over 50% damage, then yes, maybe it could be better than DB, but we're no longer at those PTR mechanics, so I have no idea why this idea is still taking hold.

FD BM dps with DB: 374,815.33
FD BM dps with TotH: 365,675.85

Similar losses are seen in SimC. The argument on BS versus AMoC is still up in the air. If used absolutely perfectly with good focus management, AMoC may indeed be better by up to 3k dps (right now, SimC is showing it at about 2k dps). The argument between DB and TotH? I don't see the argument in favor of TotH. You're looking at 7-8k dps loss when using TotH over DB. Even in multi-target scenarios, you are better suited by Fervor or DB than TotH.

[Walajanilu]

Similar losses are seen in SimC. The argument on BS versus AMoC is still up in the air. If used absolutely perfectly with good focus management, AMoC may indeed be better by up to 3k dps (right now, SimC is showing it at about 2k dps). The argument between DB and TotH? I don't see the argument in favor of TotH. You're looking at 7-8k dps loss when using TotH over DB. Even in multi-target scenarios, you are better suited by Fervor or DB than TotH.

Even with good focus control, MoC will not be better than BS for BM. BS affects our beast cleave as well as movement and overral pet abilities. MoC maybe has better single target damage compared to a few basic pet attacks, but where it makes up in single target burst, it lacks in sustained damage and aoe damage. BM should always stick with BS unless something drastic changes.
For BM users, you will most likely want to stay with DB for single target or low aoe fights, and ToTH for heavy aoe fights. I have yet to effectively test fervor on most fights, but it feels better to use DB in most cases.

[Effinhunter]

Even with good focus control, MoC will not be better than BS for BM. BS affects our beast cleave as well as movement and overral pet abilities. MoC maybe has better single target damage compared to a few basic pet attacks, but where it makes up in single target burst, it lacks in sustained damage and aoe damage. BM should always stick with BS unless something drastic changes.
For BM users, you will most likely want to stay with DB for single target or low aoe fights, and ToTH for heavy aoe fights. I have yet to effectively test fervor on most fights, but it feels better to use DB in most cases.

Which is why I still recommend BS on the BM guide. What I was saying is that I can understand people arguing about AMoC versus BS because there appears to be some substance to the argument, even if I don't think AMoC will be best. However, single target usage of TotH versus DB does not seem to have any basis in the reality of the game mechanics.

[Perrito]

It's sometimes very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff on ideas here at MMO Champion. The preference for using TotH is completely intuition-based and not based on any useful theorycrafting or even parsing (especially in regards to BM). If AS was still buffed by over 50% damage, then yes, maybe it could be better than DB, but we're no longer at those PTR mechanics, so I have no idea why this idea is still taking hold.

FD BM dps with DB: 374,815.33
FD BM dps with TotH: 365,675.85

Similar losses are seen in SimC. The argument on BS versus AMoC is still up in the air. If used absolutely perfectly with good focus management, AMoC may indeed be better by up to 3k dps (right now, SimC is showing it at about 2k dps). The argument between DB and TotH? I don't see the argument in favor of TotH. You're looking at 7-8k dps loss when using TotH over DB. Even in multi-target scenarios, you are better suited by Fervor or DB than TotH.

sim it in non warforged gear normals, or full heroic tot gear with 2/2, you can add a couple of thunderforge gear if you want and raden loot wich is more in line with whats going on atm show your results.