Casuals > Raiders, when it comes to content - misconception

[Deleted]

Their aren't minor difference they are pretty huge honestly.

Fear ward vs tremor totem

Fear has to be applied before a hit and effects 1 person it also doesn't put fear on dr. Tremor puts fear on dr and breaks the shaman and his teammates out of fears. That isn't minor.

Did you see a rogue's Recuperate in Cataclysm? It was like a resto druid's HoT.

In vanilla only dwarf priests had Fear Ward. That's a huge difference compared to today. Paladins didn't have an interrupt or speed buff but their bubble couldn't be dispelled. Etc etc.

If everyone is special then no one is.

[Tomana]

So I can safely say that this is one area where "casuals" have destroyed WoW. Classes aren't really unique anymore. They are just clones with different skins and a few minor differences.

This is still better than SWP where you were screwed if you didn't have X players of Y class. The number of raids that had to be cancelled because of that ... the horror.

[Seefer]

That sounds like a personal choice. Timeless Isle is always available for you.

Sure if I only want 496 gear or to PRAY I get a Burden, so basically you are being the typical hypocritical casual saying "Oh well if wiping 100 times because everyone can't be bothered to be good doesn't work for you then you can do this" and then turn around and bitch about normal raiding and how it isn't fair to other casuals because it's too hard.

Learning by trial and error is the way computer games were originally intended to be played.

Yeah cuz you know, strat guides and hotlines never existed nor cheat codes right?

Most people will go to school and/or seminars if they want to attend lectures and conduct research. This is a game.


It's called playing a game. If you know exactly what's coming ahead of time and you flawlessly execute it with the same people week in and week out it becomes a chore. That's why raiding doesn't appeal to most people. You don't want a game. You want a chore to give you a false sense of accomplishment. You have flex raiding, normal raiding, and heroic raiding for that. If you don't like LFR don't do it. The reason I call you selfish is that three modes catering to your style of play isn't enough. You want to get rid of the one remaining mode that can still be accomplished through trial and error. You also can't decide if they're wasting your time wiping for two hours or if you're AFKing your way to free epics. Which is it?

See my above comment about strat guides etc......oh and the free epics? Yeah sorry on my main I do normal and heroic raiding.........oddly enough 2 hrs a night 2 nights week, such a time commitment as opposed to you folks who wipe in LFR for 2 hrs a night *rolls eyes*.......oh and Flex raid wasn't really put in for normal/heroic raiders it was put in for casuals as well........I mean real casuals not the bads who claim to be casuals in LFR.

[Tomana]

See my above comment about strat guides etc......oh and the free epics? Yeah sorry on my main I do normal and heroic raiding.........oddly enough 2 hrs a night 2 nights week, such a time commitment as opposed to you folks who wipe in LFR for 2 hrs a night *rolls eyes*

Sorry but I have trouble believing you.

[worsthitmanNa]

Did you see a rogue's Recuperate in Cataclysm? It was like a resto druid's HoT.

In vanilla only dwarf priests had Fear Ward. That's a huge difference compared to today. Paladins didn't have an interrupt or speed buff but their bubble couldn't be dispelled. Etc etc.

If everyone is special, no one is.

A dwarf priest isn't a class its a race combination. Only two classes can dispel that immunity their bubble is still special. The reason it gets dispelled is because blizzard buffed disc to insane levels so everyone and their grandmother is playing it. Druids still have faerie and cyclone(the only undispellable magic cc) and power shifting. They lack other utilities like tremor and such every class is still special and none of those abilities are minor.

[Seefer]

Sorry but I have trouble believing you.

Sucks to be you huh.

[Tomana]

Sucks to be you huh.

The burden of proof lies on you, not on me. And since you don't link your character, you'll forgive me for not believing you.

[Seefer]

The burden of proof lies on you, not on me. And since you don't link your character, you'll forgive me for not believing you.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Tomaxx/simple

Never got past first one on heroic since the guild I was in fell apart and the guild leader transferred to Area-52............anyway there is your proof but honestly, I could give a shit what you think or believe.

[Tomana]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Tomaxx/simple

Never got past first one on heroic since the guild I was in fell apart and the guild leader transferred to Area-52............anyway there is your proof but honestly, I could give a shit what you think or believe.

Ah, ok, so "I'm raiding heroic" means "I got the first boss on heroic". Now that I find entirely plausible with 4 hours a week.

[gherkin]

The truth is that Blizzard lies about the % of people that raided. If only 1-5% of people raided in BC, they must of all been on my server.

6 million people in BC, 5% of population = 300k people / 25 = 12,000 25 man raiding guilds across ~150 servers * 2 factions = 40 raiding guilds per server. Since this is high and I''m not accounting for the kara-only raiders, I think this number is accurate if you adjust for active subs as well.

[Seefer]

Ah, ok, so "I'm raiding heroic" means "I got the first boss on heroic". Now that I find entirely plausible with 4 hours a week.

You do realize if the guild stuck together we could have just run heroic modes and worked our way to a full clear right? Ignoring Normal mode and going full blown heroic for 4 hrs a week, but you know, I wouldn't think someone who doesn't bother doing even normal mode would understand that.

[Barnabas]

Gotta love us vs them threads. They always seem to go well. When it comes down to it, for Blizzard, they really need anyone willing to sub at this point. So they'll continue making content for everyone to enjoy no matter how good or bad they are perceived to be at the game. I'm not saying they are completely desperate but when you lose half your income you had 7 or 8 months ago you wonder what went wrong and how much more time do I have before this ride ends.

[Tomana]

You do realize if the guild stuck together we could have just run heroic modes and worked our way to a full clear right?

Maybe. Personally I have trouble believing that a full HM clear is doable with only 4 hrs/week. There are a lot of 9 hour/week guilds doing that, but 4 just don't cut it imho, unless your guildmates are exceptional.

I wouldn't think someone who doesn't bother doing even normal mode would understand that.

I can't afford the time to do normal mode, it is entirely different.

[Seefer]

Gotta love us vs them threads. They always seem to go well. When it comes down to it, for Blizzard, they really need anyone willing to sub at this point. So they'll continue making content for everyone to enjoy no matter how good or bad they are perceived to be at the game. I'm not saying they are completely desperate but when you lose half your income you had 7 or 8 months ago you wonder what went wrong and how much more time do I have before this ride ends.

Problem is trying to make content EVERYONE likes is not possible, 1 side or another is not going to be happy and in the process everything is getting made subpar, there is so much they could have done with the isle but that turned out to be a big dud.

[worsthitmanNa]

Problem is trying to make content EVERYONE likes is not possible, 1 side or another is not going to be happy and in the process everything is getting made subpar, there is so much they could have done with the isle but that turned out to be a big dud.

No matter what blizzard does someone won't be happy. Do the happy people out weigh the haters is the question?

[Seefer]

No matter what blizzard does someone won't be happy. Do the happy people out weigh the haters is the question?

I dunno.........ask all the people who have left?

[Deleted]

A dwarf priest isn't a class its a race combination. Only two classes can dispel that immunity their bubble is still special. The reason it gets dispelled is because blizzard buffed disc to insane levels so everyone and their grandmother is playing it. Druids still have faerie and cyclone(the only undispellable magic cc) and power shifting. They lack other utilities like tremor and such every class is still special and none of those abilities are minor.

Feral's symbiosis with warriors is Shattering Throw.

Mages can heal themselves. Rogues have a good spammable ranged attack. The differences between the classes are minor when it comes to fundamental abilities. No doubt this is to help with solo questing.

So again I ask: why make a rogue when a paladin can DPS, tank and heal? For fun? Even rogues don't have as many unique abilities now. Ferals and priests can vanish. Do you honestly not see this as a problem?

[Ronduwil]

Sure if I only want 496 gear or to PRAY I get a Burden, so basically you are being the typical hypocritical casual saying "Oh well if wiping 100 times because everyone can't be bothered to be good doesn't work for you then you can do this" and then turn around and bitch about normal raiding and how it isn't fair to other casuals because it's too hard.

When have I ever said that it wasn't fair? When did I bitch that it was too hard? I said that raiding isn't meant for casuals and doesn't appeal to casuals. It's meant for players like you and has its place in WoW. My gripe is that it is the centerpiece of this entire expansion, to the exclusion of all non-solo activities. The existence of raids doesn't offend me until it comes at the cost of the other activities that the majority of players used to enjoy. My gripe isn't that it's in the game; my gripe is that it is the only thing to do in the game.

Yeah cuz you know, strat guides and hotlines never existed nor cheat codes right?

And that's why they were called cheat codes. By relying on them you're effectively cheating. Then you turn around and make it worse by expecting other players to cheat along with you and then calling them "bad" when they won't do so.

Yeah sorry on my main I do normal and heroic raiding.........oddly enough 2 hrs a night 2 nights week, such a time commitment as opposed to you folks who wipe in LFR for 2 hrs a night *rolls eyes*

Then you can do normal and heroic raiding on your alt for 2 hours a night, right? You don't need LFR. LFR is for players who don't know 9 or 24 other people who consistently play with the exact same schedules as them. It wasn't meant for you. I still don't understand what you're complaining about. You already get 4 solid hours of raiding in per week with your guild and you're complaining that you can't accomplish as much in two hours of LFR with random people?

[worsthitmanNa]

I dunno.........ask all the people who have left?

We don't know all the reason they left. More people quit the game in both Vanilla and Bc.

[Seefer]

When have I ever said that it wasn't fair? When did I bitch that it was too hard? I said that raiding isn't meant for casuals and doesn't appeal to casuals. It's meant for players like you and has its place in WoW. My gripe is that it is the centerpiece of this entire expansion, to the exclusion of all non-solo activities. The existence of raids doesn't offend me until it comes at the cost of the other activities that the majority of players used to enjoy. My gripe isn't that it's in the game; my gripe is that it is the only thing to do in the game.


And that's why they were called cheat codes. By relying on them you're effectively cheating. Then you turn around and make it worse by expecting other players to cheat along with you and then calling them "bad" when they won't do so.


Then you can do normal and heroic raiding on your alt for 2 hours a night, right? You don't need LFR. LFR is for players who don't know 9 or 24 other people who consistently play with the exact same schedules as them. It wasn't meant for you. I still don't understand what you're complaining about. You already get 4 solid hours of raiding in per week with your guild and you're complaining that you can't accomplish as much in two hours of LFR with random people?

Stop just stop.........you are severely hurting yourself here..........strat guides are NOT cheat codes for one heck most game companies offer a bundle for them, and for 2 if they were actually CHEATING the company would not put them in, for 3 sure I could do normal or heroic on an alt..........WHEN THEY GET GEAR!