Nerf arms warriors thread

[Deleted]

My monk is a perfect counter to warriors, you will not be able to kill my monk. I have had 2 warriors leave because they could not touch my monk. Perfect imbalance is so fun.

I really hope you're talking about Mistweavers, cause if two warriors can't kill a WW - they're very very bad.
One warrior is easy if you can kite him during his cooldowns (he will wipe the floor with you toe-to-toe), but two? Right...

Warriors aren't really overpowered, although they are very strong atm. The funny thing is though, that we hear moaning as soon as they're not in the top 25 teams anymore. Get over yourselves. We've almost had an entire expansion where monks (for example) are just shining with their abscense in every bracket. If that were warriors, Blizzard would be in big trouble.

[klaps_05]

you cant have lots of dmg and lots of mobility at the same time, which warriors have both atm. either half the dmg or reduce the mobility/lockdown.

[apepi]

I really hope you're talking about Mistweavers, cause if two warriors can't kill a WW - they're very very bad.
One warrior is easy if you can kite him during his cooldowns (he will wipe the floor with you toe-to-toe), but two? Right...

Warriors aren't really overpowered, although they are very strong atm. The funny thing is though, that we hear moaning as soon as they're not in the top 25 teams anymore. Get over yourselves. We've almost had an entire expansion where monks (for example) are just shining with their abscense in every bracket. If that were warriors, Blizzard would be in big trouble.

I am talking about my mistweaver in a 2v2 healer+dps game. But I can see a ww easily controlling a warrior just like my mwer controls one.

[Pua]

I am talking about my mistweaver in a 2v2 healer+dps game. But I can see a ww easily controlling a warrior just like my mwer controls one.

They do it very easily.

Again, though it's been mentioned before, warriors are still pretty lousy one on one and relatively simple for most every class to handle. It's just when they start getting back up from other players that they become rough to deal with. In some cases, too rough.

Honestly, that's how they've been since time immemorial.

[maxalyss]

Translation: Got owned by an Arms Warrior. Wah wah, nerf them.

[Deleted]

Translation: Got owned by an Arms Warrior. Wah wah, nerf them.

Typical "i finally started winning on my warrior"-response.

[Deleted]

If you nerf arms, how will Bajheera make a living? :P

[Deleted]

Hahhaha oh man top 100 arena teams.. them warriors. And ofcourse bgs containing 70% warriors.

And now you have to face Russians in the battlegroups.

Glad i got perm banned from this garbage game.

[Mihalik]

Hahhaha oh man top 100 arena teams.. them warriors. And ofcourse bgs containing 70% warriors.

And now you have to face Russians in the battlegroups.

Glad i got perm banned from this garbage game.

Your complaints and your statement of having been permanently banned, says a lot about you my friend.

[Rgthreex]

If you nerf arms, how will Bajheera make a living? :P

I feel like 80% of warriors are just swifty and bajheera fanboys

[Schwert]

All decent ideas

The problem I generally see with warrior talents are the ability to choose between damage and damage+stuns in multiple tiers. Bladestorm and Dragon Roar have to be extremely potent to overcome the added utility of Shockwave's stun - alternately Shockwave has to deal non-trivial damage to compensate for the lesser damage it deals compared to its competitors.

In actuality, we're comparing Apples to Oranges - but we're comparing all the Oranges on Apple metrics, and all the Apples on Orange metrics - and Blizzard is seemingly unwilling to recognize the conflict. The same thing is true for Stormbolt in PvP. Bloodbath has to kill people to compensate for the loss of Avatars root+snare break and superior damage cooldown, Stormbolt has to do sufficient damage to not suck on the damage metric, and yet also provides a stun which the others don't.

If they want to make those tiers into damage tiers, that's fine - pick different situations in which the talents should excel and stick to it - but tacking on utility or CC breaks into those tiers makes the whole balance of it wonky.

Warriors have always been in a precarious position in PvP though - I hope they get a proper overhaul in 6.0 - because they deserve it. They are still struggling with mechanics that were awkward in Vanilla.



Actually after the Deep Wounds debuff, Arms passed Fury in single target DPS - and is now doing above average. Keep in mind the Affliction and Demonology parses are still bugged/being worked on as of this post - so they're obviously simming in way below what they actually do.
http://simulationcraft.org/540/Raid_T14H.html




I'm not saying a damage nerf is necessarily the way to go - but the argument that it can't be done because of PvE isn't valid.

Is this just a single target ranking?

You just linked the T14 meter;

http://simulationcraft.org/540/Raid_T15H.html

This is why Arms damage cannot be nerfed.

Also that awkward feeling when every spec you play is...
(Bar Fury)

...
Wow. I'm glad I'm not raiding this tier.

[Illiterate]

Having an unpeelable mongoloid warrior riding your balls, turding unhealable damage all game is not fun

[Kreeshak]

Having an unpeelable mongoloid warrior riding your balls, turding unhealable damage all game is not fun

Disclaimer: Warriors are strong.

Regarding what I quoted: Having a mage or rogue kill you in a cheap shot/deep freeze is extremely fun. Wait I can trinket? np reset and kill you when cooldowns reset.

[Yvaelle]

Is this just a single target ranking?

We discussed this in a different post but yes - it was just meant as a brief counter to the idea that Arms was still lagging behind in PvE and therefore couldn't be nerfed because PvE - or that their single target damage was exceptionally low in PvP (neither of which are true, as shown - but they were true in 5.2/5.3).

You just linked the T14 meter;

http://simulationcraft.org/540/Raid_T15H.html

This is why Arms damage cannot be nerfed.

The point of using the 5.4 T14 sim rather than the T15H BiS sims was that the T14 sim uses an average item level much closer to the 522 we will see in full PvP gear - while the scaling in 580 BiS gear will have completely different results that wouldn't be applicable to a PvP discussion. In 5.4, in ~522 item level gear, in single combat, Arms warrior damage is in the middle-upper end of gear scaling: which is the case as it applies to PvP this season.

The takeaway is that the Deep Wounds buff was very good for them, and that the old concern (5.2, 5.3) about lacking single target sustain is no longer accurate. A damage nerf isn't completely out of the ballpark here, but I don't think it's the right way to "fix" warrior representation in 5.4.

[stickyjam]

Warriors just need to have their ways of locking casters reduced.

Raised CD on disrupting shout so it is situational not another interupt to rotate around the many other buttons to press.
And mass spell reflect replacing spell reflect.

Casters can then have an easier time casting and the warrior cannot go so mongo then

[Rorke]

Warriors just need to have their ways of locking casters reduced.

Raised CD on disrupting shout so it is situational not another interupt to rotate around the many other buttons to press.
And mass spell reflect replacing spell reflect.

Casters can then have an easier time casting and the warrior cannot go so mongo then

Disrupting Shout is fine. It's everything else that's broken.

Some people here still need to come to terms that NOTHING is being changed about Warriors until 5.5. It's over.

The fact that Warriors are overpowered doesn't necessarily bother me. It's the fact that the class is so fucking easy to play that its a complete cheese class. Anytime you fight against anything with a Warrior on it, you don't even feel like you're being outplayed technically.

There's always going to be some melee that's going to be top melee of all melee. I'd rather have it be Rogues, Monks, Ferals than this shit. At least in season 11, I could respect a good Rogue. I can't respect a good Warrior because there's no such thing as a good Warrior.

[Mihalik]

Disrupting Shout is fine. It's everything else that's broken.

Some people here still need to come to terms that NOTHING is being changed about Warriors until 5.5. It's over.

The fact that Warriors are overpowered doesn't necessarily bother me. It's the fact that the class is so fucking easy to play that its a complete cheese class. Anytime you fight against anything with a Warrior on it, you don't even feel like you're being outplayed technically.

There's always going to be some melee that's going to be top melee of all melee. I'd rather have it be Rogues, Monks, Ferals than this shit. At least in season 11, I could respect a good Rogue. I can't respect a good Warrior because there's no such thing as a good Warrior.

Clap. Clap. Clap. You are oozing annoyance, frustration and bottled up anger. (The source of your occasional suspensions). I love these broad generalizations and insults. Anyways, arguing with you is a lost cause. I still remember your proposed "balance changes". Nobody in his right mind would see that through as it would make the class utterly unplayable in pvp.

Warriors need only 2 changes to be balanced at this time.

1, Decrease rage generated from Damage taken in Defensive Stance for Arms and Fury. This way defensive stance becomes something that you will really only sit in while focused, and you wouldn't be able to put out significant pressure while in it.
2, Reverse the Intercept changes, and have Safeguard as the root breaker again.

Suddenly Warriors are much easier to kill, or they would be unable to pressure if sitting in defensive stance.

[Rorke]

Clap. Clap. Clap. You are oozing annoyance, frustration and bottled up anger. (The source of your occasional suspensions). I love these broad generalizations and insults. Anyways, arguing with you is a lost cause. I still remember your proposed "balance changes". Nobody in his right mind would see that through as it would make the class utterly unplayable in pvp.

I'm glad you've been following along with what I've been doing. And yes, sometimes I do have problems. The worst times for me to post is right after I get out of "work." I'm too hot tempered during those times to even care what I post. It's not to say that I don't believe in what I write during those times.

Anyway, make sure to follow my twitter, youtube, twitch and donate to my channel so I can get more gaming equipment. -snip-

You admit to losing your temper and then follow it up with a personal insult. Please keep the forum clean. ~Snuggli

[Deleted]

1, Decrease rage generated from Damage taken in Defensive Stance for Arms and Fury. This way defensive stance becomes something that you will really only sit in while focused, and you wouldn't be able to put out significant pressure while in it.
2, Reverse the Intercept changes, and have Safeguard as the root breaker again.

Suddenly Warriors are much easier to kill, or they would be unable to pressure if sitting in defensive stance.

3. Reduce ways for a warrior to interrupt casts OR reduce ways for a warrior to stick to his target.

Fixed!

[Mihalik]

3. Reduce ways for a warrior to interrupt casts OR reduce ways for a warrior to stick to his target.

Fixed!

That's what number 2 does.

Level 75 talents are Mass Spell Reflection/Safeguard/Vigilance.

It makes you pick between a root breaker (easier to cc), a damage reduction cooldown for your team mates (Vigilance) or a Anti-Caster ability Spell Reflect.

So yeah. It does pretty much what you were asking.