Is Garrosh Hellscream the most difficult raid boss in WoW history?

[gutnbrg]

dont think anyone who hasnt done heroic attempts can give a solid opinion on the fact...including me.
but i think this is the longest ive seen a heroic end boss stay alive.

How long have u been playing WOW? This is NOWHERE near the longest a heroic endgame boss has stayed alive....nowhere near....

[lightofdawn]

How long have u been playing WOW? This is NOWHERE near the longest a heroic endgame boss has stayed alive....nowhere near....

quite a while...guess my memory is just hazy for that kind of shit. i just get a heroic kill on my own time and dont end up caring about the race :\

[Khiyone]

Completely relevant. You claimed bosses are just as hard today. That's were your argument became false because as I stated overtuned and buggy does not make it "hard".

You can't objectively put a Vanilla boss in today's raiding environment. Compare relative difficulty.

[Akylios]

No.

Vanilla bosses are a joke to today's raiding standards. Most vanilla bosses were simply overtuned and buggy which =/= hard.

Let's say you travelled to the past, found a 10 man raiding force from some random semi-hardcore raiding guild back in classic, and brought them all back to the present. Now this group of people will have no raiding experience outside of what they've earned in classic, yet you're going to throw them right into Mogu'shan Vaults and tell them to go ahead and progress through everything MOP has to offer.

How well do you think this group of raiders would do? Do you think they'd struggle on normal modes? Perhaps make easy work of normal modes, but hit a brick wall as soon as they entered heroic modes? Perhaps something else entirely.

Would love to know what you think.

[Orcindauh]

You can't objectively put a Vanilla boss in today's raiding environment. Compare relative difficulty.

I don't think you're reading.

Take an easy boss with easy mechanics like normal Immerseus. Don't change any mechanics but scale the fight by modifying the damage and hp to only be killable by people in 545 item level. Add a few bugs and bam you have a vanilla style end boss.

Overtuned and buggy =/= hard.

[Paulosio]

Gated content, bugged bosses, people generally didn't raid as hardcore back then... (even the world 1st guilds didn't raid 16 hours a day 2 weeks straight), PTR testing on a wider scale and player skill has improved dramatically as have UI's to help people use the information presented to them more efficiently. All reasons why that list of bosses in post 3 doesn't really indicate difficulty.

If those longest unkilled bosses had never been seen beforem were turned to current ilvl and released to the WOW player base now I don't think they'd last as long.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's say you travelled to the past, found a 10 man raiding force from some random semi-hardcore raiding guild back in classic, and brought them all back to the present. Now this group of people will have no raiding experience outside of what they've earned in classic, yet you're going to throw them right into Mogu'shan Vaults and tell them to go ahead and progress through everything MOP has to offer.

How well do you think this group of raiders would do? Do you think they'd struggle on normal modes? Perhaps make easy work of normal modes, but hit a brick wall as soon as they entered heroic modes? Perhaps something else entirely.

Would love to know what you think.

Ye me too. But go even further than that. Only allow them to use the types of addons that was available during vanilla (with a boss mod updated for the fights ofc).

[Arbs]

I always thought of M'uru being the hardest boss in WoW. With only 3 guilds killing him until he got nerfed in the 3.0 patch.

[Khiyone]

I don't think you're reading.

Take an easy boss with easy mechanics like normal Immerseus. Don't change any mechanics but scale the fight by modifying the damage and hp to only be killable by people in 545 item level. Add a few bugs and bam you have a vanilla style end boss.

Overtuned and buggy =/= hard.

This is not true; Vanilla bosses were hard, not just because they were occasionally overtuned. We're going to have to agree to disagree here - in my defense I did link someone's thoughts on this (and this person is in a top 5 guild).

[dyzz]

I always thought of M'uru being the hardest boss in WoW. With only 3 guilds killing him until he got nerfed in the 3.0 patch.

He still murdered many many many guilds after that too. You could argue that Muru may have been the biggest guild killer in WoW, simply by the shear number of guilds that fell apart or simply couldn't get passed him till he was nerfed after the first week, and the big nerf later down the line.

[Orcindauh]

This is not true; Vanilla bosses were hard, not just because they were occasionally overtuned. We're going to have to agree to disagree here - in my defense I did link someone's thoughts on this (and this person is in a top 5 guild).

I don't see anything about majority of vanilla bosses that made them hard other then them being overtuned and buggy. Perhaps you'd like to elaborate?

Grinding for fire resistance gear =/= hard.

Grinding for anything =/= hard. That's called repetitive, not hard.

[Xezee]

No, he just died.

[MAGAmobile]

jup jup, I would love to see how the average raider today would fight against Lady Vashj. ahaha they would utterly fail if they wouldn't get told which ability is hitting next, which mobs spawns where and dont let me start about macros for communication...

Complexity doesn't mean shit. The only thing that matters is tuning.

[Akylios]

I don't see anything about majority of vanilla bosses that made them hard other then them being overtuned and buggy. Perhaps you'd like to elaborate?

You still had to kill most of the overtuned bosses, as the majority never got nerfed prior to being killed. The hard part was beating other guilds on your server (or in the world first race) to killing those bosses. Everyone went up against the same overtuned, buggy mess put before them, so whoever managed to bring it down first earned all the bragging rights.

So while slowly getting better gear played a large part in taking these bosses down, the guilds that could do it with the least amount of item upgrades were simply better at the game than the rest. Being the first in this race was, contrary to what you may believe, actually very hard and demanding.

[Orcindauh]

No, he just died.

Irrelevant. we have no information on what exactly goes on p4 and how many times they wiped on p4.

[lockedout]

With only 3 guilds killing him until he got nerfed in the 3.0 patch.

Thats not true.

[Orcindauh]

You still had to kill most of the overtuned bosses, as the majority never got nerfed prior to being killed. The hard part was beating other guilds on your server (or in the world first race) to killing those bosses. Everyone went up against the same overtuned, buggy mess put before them, so whoever managed to bring it down first earned all the bragging rights.

So while slowly getting better gear played a large part in taking these bosses down, the guilds that could do it with the least amount of item upgrades were simply better at the game than the rest. Being the first in this race was, contrary to what you may believe, actually very hard and demanding.

So you're telling me all we have to do to make the hardest boss in wow history is do as I described above and tune a boss with easy a fuck mechanics like normal Immerseus and tune him for some freakishly large number like 585 item level by only changing the hp and damage?

[sharlez]

If C'thun fight would have been released today it would have been a total joke. Bosses are much harder now than before.

Personally I'd rank the hardest bosses something like this (so far)

1. Heroic Ragnaros
2. Heroic Lei Shen
3. Heroic Lich King 25man
4. Heroic Anub'arak 25man
5. Heroic Ascendant Council

[PrairieChicken]

If C'thun fight would have been released today it would have been a total joke. Bosses are much harder now than before.

Personally I'd rank the hardest bosses something like this (so far)

1. Heroic Ragnaros
2. Heroic Lei Shen
3. Heroic Lich King 25man
4. Heroic Anub'arak 25man
5. Heroic Ascendant Council

You forgot Yogg 0

[Barnabas]

If C'thun fight would have been released today it would have been a total joke. Bosses are much harder now than before.

Personally I'd rank the hardest bosses something like this (so far)

1. Heroic Ragnaros
2. Heroic Lei Shen
3. Heroic Lich King 25man
4. Heroic Anub'arak 25man
5. Heroic Ascendant Council

No it was harder back then to kill a boss. You didn't have the homogeneity of buffs you have now and you don't have the freedom of specs and how you can play them back then. You were pigeonholed into one role. It was a different game then today and making lists to compare is really pointless.

[Deleted]

No it's not the most difficult obviously. Just killed in the cookie-cutter distance of a couple weeks, it's always planned to not take too long but also not too little. Also, since they also want to not see it killed immediately they may overtune a few bosses at first as a safe-guard (e.g. Ragnaros HC having 3 minutes less of an enrage timer) but they soon lift those safeguards to not let it last for a month or so because they'd see hard cores whining.