US Guilds only 23% of the Top 100 for 10m Raiding.

[Deleted]

Eh bien, vous devez certainement representer l'ensemble de l'effectif moyen du pays de France. Je suis content que vous etiez en mesure de sauvegarder votre message aux articles actualy situees comme je le faisais.
etre un francophone canadien-français. la seule bigoterie je peux peut-etre voir dans ce fil est vous faites hypothese et accusez-moi que je ne suis pas français moi-meme. Je pense que vous devriez modifier cela.



here is another document full of facts comparing Full time employment. which is not the average of all workers in either countries but still backs up my point.

http://www.businessinsider.com/avera...e-world-2013-8

Are you dense ? The numbers I quoted are THE LAW in France. Minimum hours per week is 35 (actually only state workers work that amount, most ppl work more than that), maximum per year is 5 weeks if you work for a private company, 6 weeks if you're a state worker. Stop spreading your racist nonsense (even if the moderators allow you to do so).

[Xploit]

Lot of the "US 10 man" guilds are from Australia and technically not from the US. Currently, the #1 and #5 "US 10 man" guilds are Australian.

[Deleted]

Euros don't work (irl) nearly as much.

32 vs. 50+ hour work weeks = lots more time for progression.

32 wat. Standard work week here is 38-40 hours. In reality it's closer to 50+ for plenty of my colleagues and when I'm home I'm nowhere near done with my job.

Europe simply has a more hardcore gaming culture and even within Europe the differences are huge and culturally inspired.

[Wildtree]

About internet connections; EU as a whole don't have better internet connections. Scandinavia has for sure, running 100 mb up and down myself for instance. But I know my GM from Serbia has a much lower speed at a much higher price. So I'd be careful about saying that the entire EU have faster internet.

hence why I said, don't fall for anecdotal evidence...
Serbia, count the population.. USA... You know there are wide regions where people can't have anything else than satellite internet connection? Or they have to use their 3G/4G wireless phone connection? And I neglect now the wiring of the cables. Almost all cables run above ground, from pole to pole. Of course there are Europeans that don't have high tech wiring. But there's also the farmer in Nebraska, that has only a sat dish.
I described the mainstream comparison.

[Deleted]

Euros don't work (irl) nearly as much.

32 vs. 50+ hour work weeks = lots more time for progression.

Most EU countries work 40 hour weeks.

[Wildtree]

32 hours (atleast in germany) is something you will most likely never see.
The norm here would be 40 hours, with most people actually working way more, way closer to 50 hours AND saturdays.

When did Germany fall back into times from some 60 years ago?

Yes, you work 40 hours a week, but your regular work week is 35 hours average, and the difference goes towards your "paid time off" account. It adds to your vacation amount. Of course some people work on Saturdays, some even on Sundays, otherwise you won't get anything in stores, you won't get your Saturday and Sunday newspaper. Nor the Monday paper either, since that's made Sundays.
And weekend/holiday work is desired since it pays royally to do so.

[Deleted]

1. Europeans are better at the game (Doubtful, there's no rational reason to assume this)
2. US players don't care as much as the EU guys (Possible and likely)
3. EU has a bigger population than the US (Same reason why China always win the Olympics) (Flat out wrong. The EU market is relatively the same size as the US market)
4. The US players have more of a social life and spend more time with their friends (Unlikely and at the very least there's no reason to assume this on a global scale)
5. Players from the US don't like to spend as much time on the computer than the guys from EU, because they know NSA are spying on them. (Let me get my tinfoil hat first)
6. US players prefer PvP (Unlikely. The only reason you assume this is because the US has some very high profile PvP 'celebs', and that's simply due to how the media channels used in this scene are American)
7. US guys are more anti-social and don't fit well into a 10/25 man group environment (Unlikely)
8. US players don;t like MMO's as much as the Euros (Possibly, but I doubt it. Would have to find some data for this).
9. US players just don't care enough about a video game to play it 16 hours a day to win an unofficial race with no rewards. (Possibly, but seeing as the American culture is oft generalized as being very competitive, as evidenced by their success in many branches of professional sports, I doubt they care less about competitive video gaming. No visible reward? Recognition, admiration and bragging rights are very visible, just not tangible).

[cyqu]

Funny enough how we haven't seen a single person agreeing to that. It's no way near the truth and I don't give a damn where that article is from. It's either going off some weird numbers as several have suggested or there's something else we're missing. Cause I doubt you'll find anyone who will agree, that 26 hours is a full time job in any EU country. Actually, why don't you let us know, when you find someone who claims that?

My point is, that the articles might not be wrong but there has got to be something we're missing. Don't tell me you actually believe those numbers to be real, the way you're arguing now. There's a missing piece here and since you're the one linking the articles, you might wanna look into that before posting......

and you have not given me any statistics to prove me wrong other then a few people on an internet forum, 2 of which have claimed a state job and a "really good company job" neither of which is what an average person works at, so while i go over averages that have been posted by credible publications. you can keep arguing small focus groups from a WoW forum that seem to help your cause.

[Wildtree]

3. EU has a bigger population than the US (Same reason why China always win the Olympics) (Flat out wrong. The EU market is relatively the same size as the US market)

I stopped there.......

315 mio US Population is the same as 500+ mio EU population? Or 739 mio Europe population?

[cyqu]

Lot of the "US 10 man" guilds are from Australia and technically not from the US. Currently, the #1 and #5 "US 10 man" guilds are Australian.

yea stop taking my US rankings bro.

[Deleted]

When did Germany fall back into times from some 60 years ago?

Yes, you work 40 hours a week, but your regular work week is 35 hours average, and the difference goes towards your "paid time off" account. It adds to your vacation amount.

Not for everyone hombre. The large majority of businesses regulate these things in collective labor agreements and unions aren't that strong anymore to enforce either extra hours being paid out or being able to recuperate these and turn them into holiday time. Where I work, and though I work for a British multinational in Belgium, you put in the extra hours and you get nothing in return. Plenty of other businesses I know have the exact same code.

Not everyone works for the government or in education where you work 7h/day, have 4 months of holiday/year, or is able to recuperate every single minute over those 7h.

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I stopped there.......

315 mio US Population is the same as 500+ mio EU population? Or 739 mio Europe population?

Russia isn't EU and Blizzard isn't active in every European submarket, nor is the game as accessible to everyone due to language barriers.

The EU market will be roughly similar in size as the US market, if not smaller.

[Bakis]

I cant help, without any evidence, to believe that console gaming is bigger in US than in the EU.
Homes with a solid internet and a kid or teen with a PC is like the norm since forever in most of the EU.
Always got the feeling that there might very well be a difference in the number of players using primarily a PC platform in the EU compared to the US.

[Wildtree]

Not for everyone hombre. The large majority of businesses regulate these things in collective labor agreements and unions aren't that strong anymore to enforce either extra hours being paid out or being able to recuperate these and turn them into holiday time.

The DGB is as powerful and influential as it always was. That's guaranteed through the work laws regarding Union regulations. No employer can prevent Union presence in their business. With at least 5 employees the staff is entitled to vote a employee representative. The more employees the more representatives.. And the more of those, the employers have to live with some of those even doing nothing else than employee matters all day long. They are still on the companies payroll, even though they don't "work" but a single minute.

40 hours at full income compensation is long integrated. Some 20 years ago it started.
The way they do it is but open to install it practically.. it varies from industry to industry and the corresponding Tariff contracts for that industry. Those contracts, which are negotiated by the employers and unions are binding work law for that industry. Most follow the holiday credit, others add the time onto the hourly wages.

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Russia isn't EU and Blizzard isn't active in every European submarket, nor is the game as accessible to everyone due to language barriers.

The EU market will be roughly similar in size as the US market, if not smaller.

Russia isn't EU that's true...
Hence the difference between EU and Europe in population. All in all.... The US realms consist of USA and Canada, which brings it to 350 mio population target.
Whereas the EU still has 500 mio population target. You are off by 150 mio.

[brirrspliff]

Euros don't work (irl) nearly as much.

32 vs. 50+ hour work weeks = lots more time for progression.

*yawn* yeah, it's because we're so much more efficient. this also reflects EU raiding.

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1. Europeans are better at the game (Possible and likely)
2. US players don't care as much as the EU guys (Doubtful, there's no rational reason to assume this)

you may be right.

[Deleted]

hence why I said, don't fall for anecdotal evidence...
Serbia, count the population.. USA... You know there are wide regions where people can't have anything else than satellite internet connection? Or they have to use their 3G/4G wireless phone connection? And I neglect now the wiring of the cables. Almost all cables run above ground, from pole to pole. Of course there are Europeans that don't have high tech wiring. But there's also the farmer in Nebraska, that has only a sat dish.
I described the mainstream comparison.

I was actually agreeing with you. I just wanted to add a few things.

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and you have not given me any statistics to prove me wrong other then a few people on an internet forum, 2 of which have claimed a state job and a "really good company job" neither of which is what an average person works at, so while i go over averages that have been posted by credible publications. you can keep arguing small focus groups from a WoW forum that seem to help your cause.

It's true that I don't have any statistics but I can tell you, that by law, any state employee working a full time job, has to work 37 hours. Someone just said a similar thing about France. So while your publications might hold truth in a different context where the numbers are clearly explained, they do not hold truth here. Honestly, if I have to validate what I and others are saying here, we're beyond common sense.

Edit: Living in a well fare country where we almost pay 50% in tax, how on earth would people be able to make a living only working 21-26 hours per week, while paying almost 50% of that in tax. Get down on earth dude.

[Bakis]

Where did this 32h come from? I know nordic countries, generally a hot spot for the top players have 37-40. All of them.
Not sure what it was brought up though, it is not that a majority of the players in the Top10 guilds are working full time or even working at all.

[Deleted]

Where did this 32h come from? I know nordic countries, generally a hot spot for the top players have 37-40. All of them.

Apparently Cyqu wants solid proofs, before he'll believe that. And the hours (21-26 even) comes from 2 publications he linked from Forbes.

[Wildtree]

I was actually agreeing with you. I just wanted to add a few things.

I took it as that... You just motivated me to word it out a little more detailed. Because, like I said in my initial post, the tech part is in my opinion the #1 reason why EU guilds are more ahead.

[Deleted]

I know the reason, there isn't one!

[Wildtree]

Where did this 32h come from? I know nordic countries, generally a hot spot for the top players have 37-40. All of them.
Not sure what it was brought up though, it is not that a majority of the players in the Top10 guilds are working full time or even working at all.

In Germany only VW employees have that schedule. That's an tariff agreement between the company and its employees it's not national standard.