Iron Juggernaut Heroic Tips?

[Zabuzan]

Hi all,

After getting finally getting a raid worthy team together, we got Protectors and Norushen on Wednesday, then Sha and Galakras down yesterday with an hour on Juggernaut.

The mechanics of Juggernaut are fairly simple, but the healing just seems mental, in terms of requirement it feels by far the toughest fight so far even though it's not a very complex fight.

We were using the Fatboss strat (3 heal, stack up, get knocked back and stay loosely stacked until Siege mode is over). We had a cooldown rotation sorted for each of the sonic pulses, but people were still suddenly getting gibbed out of nowhere.

The main thing I'd like to ask, as the fight is fairly simple mechanically, is whether or not we should be looking to 3 heal or 4 heal this one? I know that there will be people from each camp, but was wondering if the majority of people had gone with any one strategy?

To give you an example of what we were doing yesterday:

Comp:
Prot Paladin
Prot Warrior
Fury Warrior
Frost Deathknight
Warlock
Hunter
Elemental Shaman
Disc Priest
Resto Druid
Holy Paladin

Heroism on pull, burn the boss until Siege Mode. Boss @ ~55% hp when the first Siege Mode starts.
Loosely stack in the space of an Efflorescence at max range from the boss.
Barrier down with all the raid in it for the first Shock Pulse. Resto Druid Tranq went up to get everyone topped prior to that as well, as most of the raid were fairly low - I felt like this was probably a waste though?
Loosely stacked in an Efflorescence / Healing Raid at the back of the enclosure. Issue here were that the laser was spawning to track someone but another player was close enough behind them that they got gibbed on spawn, do we need people with a lower healing requirement to be out of the Efflo to give more space?
2nd Shock Pulse - Devo Aura and Prot War raid CDs
3rd Shock Pulse - Devo Aura and DPS War raid CDs

The healers were obviously mad spamming throughout, with all of their CDs spread through the Siege Mode phase.

The one thing I would say, is that our Hpala's healing was a fair bit lower than the Priest and Rdruid, so there was a healing deficit there.

Comp wise, we also have another Rdruid available (but significantly lower geared at the moment), a geared Mistweaver and a geared Boomkin.

We had about 10 pulls or so, our best attempt got us to the end of the first Siege Mode but with only 2 healers alive and the boss ticked down to ~50%. We have no DPS issue here by outranging the boss during the Siege Mode, but it still doesn't seem to help us as the raid damage is still absolutely huge.

Would appreciate any tips or advice you guys can offer... it might be that swapping our MW in for our Hpala or just running 4 heal is the way to go for us for safety - the Assault Mode phase is a non issue, we've got the tanks soaking the majority of the crawler mines with Hpala bubbled helping on the first set and seevral back up options of one is too far away, so the Siege Mode phase is what we really need to get sorted.

Cheers,
Zab

[Deleted]

Putting up link to WoL says more than a thousand words.

Seems like the way u put it u have no issues with phase 1, so lets go thru phase 2.

It is actually the part of the fight i find the eassiest and most calm when you first got it under controll. Make sure to use raid cooldowns as you alrdy are on the 3 pulses. Make sure ur hybrids are assisting with healing as much as they can, and then ppl need to use their cooldowns as much as they can to assist. Rogues keep feint up the entire phase, hunters use detterence for the shock pulses etc. It is just really important your not stacked up due to demolisher cannon, it can rip you apart if you get one right before a shock pulse. If all healers have saved their cooldowns from phase 1, this phase really isnt tough at all. Good planning and communication on the cooldown useage is all thats needed.

[Hypasonic]

Seem's you have the general idea of the fight already, but without seeing any log's it's hard to say anything specific other than if players are dying during the siege mode then they either A: aren't being topped up fast enough or B: Using personals/Healthstones appropriately.

Not sure going 4 healer's would solve your problem's, when we killed it the first time we were close on the enrage with 3 heal's so had to have our disc go full attonement smite spam build :P but I guess with a few weeks more of gear it can be done, although it shouldn't be needed.

But yeah, your cd usage seem's fine, but again without log's there's little else I can suggest.

[Salystra]

Not sure going 4 healer's would solve your problem's, when we killed it the first time we were close on the enrage.

When we attempted last night 2x 0.4% wipes before having to give up and clear, we hit enrage twice with 3 healers (no dps in p2's) I think the four healer strat has to be to keep attacking the boss throughout siege mode (which is hell given the amount of bombs flying).

From what I saw its all about getting the grouping up right before getting knocked back the first time and having the cds up to reduce the knockback damage, I THINK on the first one for instance we had healing tide/smoke bomb whilst standing in a healing rain/druid eff.

[Zabuzan]

Thanks for the info so far guys - that's pretty much what we are doing so it sounds like a healer output issue more than anything else...

Going to work on a more solid healer cooldown rotation for it tonight - hybrids were already healing their nuts off, but we could have our boomkin in and go HotW for mad heals as well I guess.

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I'll also log tonight's raid in case we don't get it

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Oh crap, I think I just realised what the issue most likely is.

Demolisher Cannons is a nuke that Iron Juggernaut often uses. It deals moderate Fire damage to random raid members, and to any other players in a 6-yard radius. It is unavoidable. I think we were probably far closer than /range 6..... /facepalm.

[Deleted]

Yes, you want to be relatively spread out for the Demo Cannons and coming in to stack (if using a CD like AMZ / Barrier) prior to the shock pulse. Group doesn't need to be massively spread, but as you've said the 6 yard range is pretty important if you are losing people in that phase

[Berianther]

From your descriptions I'm assuming you're dying in the siege phase. Just make sure you organize your cds properly. Pally is pretty strong on this fight actually, especially the first phase. If he's playing properly, he should be able to keep up. IMO the first phase is by far the harder fight to heal for us, due to random rng deaths, especially going in undergeared.

[Angelicat]

From your descriptions I'm assuming you're dying in the siege phase. Just make sure you organize your cds properly. Pally is pretty strong on this fight actually, especially the first phase. If he's playing properly, he should be able to keep up. IMO the first phase is by far the harder fight to heal for us, due to random rng deaths, especially going in undergeared.

There's no RNG deaths in P1 though, all the damage is avoidable except laser burn. When we first killed the fight we told people to move if they ever got hit by the initial hit of laser burn. That way if cannons were coming (you don't have a real way to see this) you would be able to dodge it. Also saw can be avoided but I imagine most people don't try to.

[Zabuzan]

Most of our raid had little problem dodging saws, our hunter was getting pretty knobbed off with them though! :P

I figured Hpala should be pretty good for this one, but she isn't keeping up with the other 2 healers in our case. The gap was closing somewhat on the later pulls, but I've seen Hpalas topping meters on the fight in other videos so there is definitely some improvement required. Any Hpala specific tips you could offer for me to pass on?

[sarasun]

Most of our raid had little problem dodging saws, our hunter was getting pretty knobbed off with them though! :P

I figured Hpala should be pretty good for this one, but she isn't keeping up with the other 2 healers in our case. The gap was closing somewhat on the later pulls, but I've seen Hpalas topping meters on the fight in other videos so there is definitely some improvement required. Any Hpala specific tips you could offer for me to pass on?

Hpalas shouldn't top meters right now, especially not on H:Juggernaut. All about druids and Shamans atm.

[Tehterokkar]

For the bombs in P2, all 3 of your RDPS should stay on the move 100%, if you stand still and try to move away from the bombs when they appear, you are most likely going to get hit. Keeping on the move removes the reaction time. Same with melee, they can go around the boss in a circle, but just make sure they are on the right side when knockback happens.

Also, Holy Paladins are not that good on this fight, high AoE damage + movement + not stacked. Resto Druids/MW Monks are really good here because of instant casts and better spread healing.

But in all honesty, our 25 HC kill was just about people moving away from the bombs in time and used their personal CDs only during P2 and on shock pulses mostly. Before that we were constantly wiping on first P2 or have like 15-20 people survive and then lose another 10 in 2nd P2. If you can make it out of the first P2 without anyone dying, you are very close to a kill.

[Zabuzan]

We aren't staying near the boss during P2, we are standing well out of range of the barrages. Have enough DPS to only attack during Assault Mode and still beat the enrage timer, so there is relatively little movement during P2.

Nonetheless, obviously if there is an Rdruid present on this one, they are going to be pwning.... ours is!

Expect to see this go down pretty rapidly tonight, the /range 6 thing was the only thing gibbing people I reckon!

[Tehterokkar]

If you are not even in the range of bombs, then why the hell is healing the issue? The thing that was mostly wiping was that we had a few nice people standing in bomb just as knockback happened. The fight is like total easy mode if you can ignore the barrage and just loosely spread for the tar. Not to mention hybrids can off-heal during it since there is no pressure of maximizing DPS and your DK/Warr DPS can just go into Blood Pres./Def Stance for even more reduced damage taken.

[Angelicat]

If you are not even in the range of bombs, then why the hell is healing the issue? The thing that was mostly wiping was that we had a few nice people standing in bomb just as knockback happened. The fight is like total easy mode if you can ignore the barrage and just loosely spread for the tar. Not to mention hybrids can off-heal during it since there is no pressure of maximizing DPS and your DK/Warr DPS can just go into Blood Pres./Def Stance for even more reduced damage taken.

The fight isn't "easy mode" in 10 man due to the chances of the various abilities lining up in p1 and killing someone being high when you have a lot less people (in a perfect world we would all dodge everything dodge-able but that's not always the case). Not to mention you have less raid cds and healing cooldowns for the second phase depending on what your raid has. Hybrid healing isn't a real option in 10 most of the time too (their only hybrid is an ele shaman).

If you sit out p2 you can't let anyone die early or you will wipe to the enrage (it's not THAT forgiving).

Not starting a 10 vs 25 thingy but I felt IJ was pretty tough when we got to it first week.

[Khorm]

Have your Healing Rain and Effo overlap about halfway between each other so people can spread out more and make sure they are right on the edges. Tanks don't get targeted so it doesn't matter where they stand. Use a Cry/Banner on the first and 2nd pulses and then tranq on the 3rd, the next P2 is in exactly 3minutes so they will be back up.

The trick is is to have your tanks taking as many mines as possible so DPS and healers have their CD's up for P2. Your prot war can get all 3 very easy.
1st wave - Prot war w/ Shield Wall x3
2nd wave - Prot Pal x2, heal x1
3rd wave - Prot war w/ Pain suppresion/Last stand x3

Phase 2 will then hit
1st wave - Prot war w/ Shield Wall x3
2nd wave - Prot Pal x2, heal x1
Pretty sure you only get 2 waves here.
P1

1st wave - Prot war w/ Pain suppresion/Last stand x3
2nd wave - Prot Pal x2, heal x1
3rd wave - Prot war w/ Shield Wall x3

More damage will be going out with DPS not doing mines and they will live easier in P2. In our kill the boss hit enrage for about 10 seconds so it is a tight DPS check because of that time spent away.

[Zabuzan]

Thanks for the detailed advice Khorm, with regards to the mines, both myself (Prot Paladin) and the Warrior get them all, Speed of Light and Engineering belt helps me get 3 with Divine Shield up to negate the damage which is useful.

Efflo/Healing Rain overlap is exactly what I've just posted on our guild forum to do

With regards to your comment Tehterokkar, the damage in P1 is pretty spiky as well, but the deaths were happening in P2 - I've already answered as to why, we weren't /range 6 spread at all, so the 250k damge hits from demo shots were splashing on multiple raid members and killing us very rapidly. Spreading out in P2 will resolve all of our issues, especially with some of the other advice in this thread.

[Salystra]

The saw is annoying you can easily avoid the incoming saw but if its on someone else the returning saw isn't a strict pattern so it returns on a completely different trail with no set distance between initial and returning.

Range 6? clearly I'm missing something as we was spread out but there was nothing that was gibbing us in P1 except lack of movement or combination of lazer/saw, I always thought the cannon was more to do with P2 siege phase and therefore a null issue if you're at range.

[Zabuzan]

The range 6 applies to P2, when the demo shots are hitting the raid, I don't think this occurs in P1? But in P1 people are spread anyway, the gibs we had in P1 (which were infrequent and only on the first couple of pulls) were due to people being scrubs and standing in stuff they shouldn't

During P2, there is the red circle cannon on the ground, but also an unavoidable cannon that hits the raid and splashes 6 yards for 250k damage; as far as I can work out anyway.

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Can't check it at the moment - can anyone tell me how long the enrage timer for the fight is?

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Posted the guide I made based on some of the comments here, if you have any other tips, please let me know

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-Heroic-Guide

[Angelicat]

The saw is annoying you can easily avoid the incoming saw but if its on someone else the returning saw isn't a strict pattern so it returns on a completely different trail with no set distance between initial and returning.

I'm pretty sure the saw works by first picking someone, travels to that guy, then picks another guy and goes towards that guy, before going back to the boss.

Basically if you are between two guys who are targeted by the first saw, you will get hit as it travels from one to the next.

but also an unavoidable cannon that hits the raid and splashes 6 yards for 250k damage; as far as I can work out anyway.

You can avoid it. You will notice avoiding it on several occasions where you randomly move trying to dodge the red circle thing on the ground, saw, or borer drill. The only problem is that you can't see it coming to avoid it so you kinda have to be moving as it's casted to dodge it (and of course not run into someone else since you might just take their cannon then).

No real reliable way to dodge it unless you just move the entire fight lol but yeah.

[cyqu]

We 4healed it week 1 with discx2, MW, hpally. Enrage is pretty forgiving.