LFR is broken.

[Chrysia]

Isn't ToT above 500?

ToT's LFR is 502, which is why I said "mostly ToT LFR gear." You can have a piece or two of previous tier stuff if you're in ToT LFR stuff.

[Alternategray]

There was a thread here about a guild leader that decided all his raiders needed to get Gold in Proving Grounds. His was either a Flex or a normal group. Shortly after his announcement, a few raiders actually gquit. Do you really think imposing Gold on LFR players, yes, LFR players, is a good idea?

I personally am all for it, but it's just not the level of skill Blizzard has created LFR for. Not that most LFR players couldn't do Gold, I think almost everyone could... but they just don't want to bother with putting in more effort into raiding.

As far as a gem/enchant check, that does sound like a good idea, as long as it doesn't require them to be 100% optimal. As long as they fit the class (agi for agi users, int for int users, etc.), aren't low tier and are applied to 80% of gear, I think that'd be enough.

Yeah, as far as gem/enchants go, fairly loose standards would work. No one should need to run simcraft before they run LFR. Not shooting for optimal, just within spec.

As far as the proving grounds go: it doesn't have to be identical to what's in place now. But yes, for LFR I think there should be some sort of standard. It doesn't have to be harsh; if gold's too far, then silver. The thing is, with that guild leader, that was his choice to do that, and his raiders freely left. When it comes to the raid finder, it sucks to wait for an hour only to find out you're screwed because you ended up with a jacked group. A different scenario and system entirely.

[Raintola]

The current ilvl for SoO LFR is 496, which is either full timeless isle or mostly gear from ToT LFR. I fail to see how that is not high enough ilvl.

The required item level is 500, not 496.

Also, 5 mans haven't been challenging since 2.3 at least.

[Splatter]

Wing two just seems over tuned really. Mechanics are reasonably complex and enrage timers are tight for your average group of lfr players. I did wing 3 this week and had two wipes clearing the whole wing on lfr. Wing 2 was a lot more painful with 5 stacks on nazgrim (even after the nerfs) and four stacks on dark shamans.

The required item level is 500, not 496.

No its 496.

[Dristereau]

I've had some bad experiences with 5.4 LFRs, and also special mention to Durumu needs to be mentioned. But yesterday I managed to do Gates without too many wipes (one on Galakras, one on Dark Shaman, two on Nazgrim) and then tanked VoES with just one wipe on Sha of Pride. Depends on luck I guess. I'm sure when I do some LFRs later in the week with those who need it it will be horrible for some of them.

Way it goes I suppose. Still, Gates is beginning to rival Forgotten Depths in terms of my hatred for it.

[Alternategray]

So your bad experience means the whole system is broken?

I have done all my LFR runs without a hitch so far. A few wipes here and there and then people listen to someone who has done it and we clear it.

I'll go so far as to say you either rarely run LFR, we have radically different battlegroups, or you're lying. Yes, it's really that simple. The first week or two wasn't bad; the last couple weeks have been horrific. I've tried running it quite a few times on several different characters... so my "bad experience" as you put it, isn't a single experience. Those experiences I recounted are called examples, because I don't have the memory or space to list every single shitty experience.

The last thing I want to deal with at this point is some know-it-all who's straight-up bullshitting, pulling the whole "I'm a special snowflake, therefore your argument is invalid" thing. "SOULFORGE HAD SOME GOOD RUNS, LFR IS ALL GOOD NOW, DISCUSSION'S OVER AND EVERYONE CAN GO HOME." You got some attention dude, run along now and let the big people talk.

[Kreo]

Rank 10 in Brawler's guild as LFR entry requirements would fix a lot of things
But seriously, this is not in Blizzard current policy, to force people to do stuff like proving grounds. I sort of like them, but not everybody would agree with me.
What I think would work better is finite try count on bosses. Like, if you wipe, they still give you buff but you can do it, let's say, 5 times. If you still fail after that, game over, raid done. Also some nice debuff for say, 30 min or 1 hour, preventing those fail raiders to join another LFR.
This actually might encourage people to perform better, if they don't want to get penalized.

[Alternategray]

I've had some bad experiences with 5.4 LFRs, and also special mention to Durumu needs to be mentioned. But yesterday I managed to do Gates without too many wipes (one on Galakras, one on Dark Shaman, two on Nazgrim) and then tanked VoES with just one wipe on Sha of Pride. Depends on luck I guess. I'm sure when I do some LFRs later in the week with those who need it it will be horrible for some of them.

Way it goes I suppose. Still, Gates is beginning to rival Forgotten Depths in terms of my hatred for it.

I'm starting to wonder how much our experiences are tweaked by region. Wing 1 runs started out great the first couple weeks, lately there's been several groups that couldn't make it past the trash after Fallen.

Do wings open up later for different regions (like South America)?

[Paulosio]

OP seems to be one of them

People that cry because healers only do 50k hps when PEOPLE SIT AT 100%

Indeed. Had this on Durumu lots of times. There's almost nothing to heal except for the disintegration beam phase where half the raid often gets 1 shotted by the beam. After a wipe you still often get a few people trying to blame the healers for only doing 30k hps or whatever....

I'm mostly steering clear of LFR and will be for at least another month but I did the 2nd wing last week without major issues. 1 or 2 shotted Galakras, 3 shotted Dark Shamans and 1 shotted Nazgrim. Not perfect but not horrific. I think things will improve over the weeks as LFR raiders start getting a bit more gear and learning the fights a bit.

[Sealbinder]

I have only been in one group which beat Iron Juggernaut even. I have only seen Dark Shaman's once and never seen Nazgrim. I have tried at least once a day since it was released.

However this is the nature of LFR. It is random. Some are good, some are not. Sometimes you have good luck, sometimes you don't. You just need to realize that is the nature of the beast. If you don't like it, try flex or normal. If you don't have a group for it, get OQueue and try to find groups that way. However requiring people to even waste their time with the proving ground, let alone have certain rankings is silly. Yes you had a DK with nothing right. Okay, it happens. However how about the people with gear who are not paying attention? They can meet your requirements but still not do anything right for the raid.

When you play with random people, there will be an element of randomness. If you don't like random people, then don't do LFR. No one is holding a gun against your head about it.

[Mormolyce]

Of course it does, but that isn't a good reason not to try to improve things for people that go in there and try to be helpful/respectful.

Of course, not being a jerk to other players is always the right policy. Just saying, it's no more broken now than it was last time new queues were released.

Only thing that seems different to me is that there is an incredibly chronic tank shortage. Seriously people, roll more tanks!

[Creotor]

As far as the proving grounds go: it doesn't have to be identical to what's in place now. But yes, for LFR I think there should be some sort of standard. It doesn't have to be harsh; if gold's too far, then silver. The thing is, with that guild leader, that was his choice to do that, and his raiders freely left. When it comes to the raid finder, it sucks to wait for an hour only to find out you're screwed because you ended up with a jacked group. A different scenario and system entirely.

My point was that if some Normal/Flex raiders felt asking Gold of them was too much, how would LFR players react? There'd be an uprising.
It won't ever happen, however, because it would be Blizzard shooting themselves in the foot. LFR was made for players of this level. That is the design and intent.
Very bad groups are a very unfortunate effect that is here to stay, though. It'll only get better, though. Wing 2 has been out for what, 2-3 weeks now? Give it a little more time.

[Seefer]

Of course, not being a jerk to other players is always the right policy. Just saying, it's no more broken now than it was last time new queues were released.

Only thing that seems different to me is that there is an incredibly chronic tank shortage. Seriously people, roll more tanks!

I have a tank, won't ever use it for pugs of any sort, people pulling and then blaming me for their death kind of stopped that.

[judgementofantonidas]

Hit me up for a group.

inj#1944 battletag

I generally blast through the LFR tuesday within an hour of server up.

[Dristereau]

I'm starting to wonder how much our experiences are tweaked by region. Wing 1 runs started out great the first couple weeks, lately there's been several groups that couldn't make it past the trash after Fallen.

Do wings open up later for different regions (like South America)?

Hard to say because most people only play on one Region Don't get me wrong, I've had terrible groups, and so have friends of mine. Three hours in Gates last week almost drove me mental. But there are times when everyone seems to focus, pay attention, not AFK, and it goes great. It's not stressful, hard, and you don't have to use /rw or capslock to get your point across.

However of my Characters four are tanks and having experienced up to Malkorok on Flex I generally have an idea of what I'm doing, and can advise the group or other Tank if it's not very good

[Hypro]

It's always had it's warts and drawbacks, but 5.4 seems to have completely broken it. I haven't had a successful Wing 2 run in a couple weeks now; if a group makes it to Dark Shaman, that's as far as it usually goes. One hour queue, plus two hours for Dark Shaman, then waiting another hour for tanks, then another hour wiping on Nazgrim. Five hours to down one boss... that's a failed system. And it's a common thing now.

Sure, LFR works in a pre-made, but that's not really LFR, and you might as well do flex at that point (unless you're desperate and going for a tier piece or trinket to hold you over).

Tonight we wiped 3 times on Juggernaut (before I left, not before he was downed) due to the tanks being all sorts of screwed up. The DK tank had zero enchants except for Windsong. Pvp gear. And no one could/would kick him. My timer is maxed out (don't get me started on WoW punishing the players who do the right thing with high kick CDs). It's like every fight is Lei Shen right after Wing 4 opened, but worse... and it's not the fight mechanics that are the problem. I really hope Blizzard's response to this isn't to nerf the instance or claim that it's because the fights are new, because catering to people pulling 10k dps (and DK tanks with Windsong) is not the solution.

The solution is simple. LFR needs to be gated, period. A higher ilvl requirement for each wing that gets opened wouldn't hurt, but it's not necessarily a fix all by itself. Proving Grounds would be a perfect lock. Wing 1: open to those who have completed LFR ToT. Yes, all of it. Wing 2: Silver Proving Grounds for the spec you signed up with. Wing 3 and 4: Gold Proving Grounds. On top of that, how hard would it be to implement a gear/gem/enchant check for LFR? Yeah, I know some tanks like to run with DPS gear, and in Flex/Normal/Heroic you still could. In LFR, it shouldn't be left to chance... because odds are, that tank is in dps gear not because he wants the extra threat/dps, it's because he's a lazy or incompetent douche who wanted a fast queue.

LFR was a really cool and sometimes useful concept, but it's gonna die a nasty death unless Blizzard implements some controls. Let's be honest, the entire concept relies on the fact that there's experienced, geared players pulling the groups through. When it becomes so painful that those players stop running it at all... Hell, I'm not exactly slumming it when I run LFR; I'm a moderately competent player, probably average (Flex is fairly easy, heroic would probably be beyond me) and if it's gotten so bad that I'm not willing to set foot in the raid finder crapfest anymore, something is seriously wrong.

All i have read is another cry post about how you wiped so much on this and that boss... Ive NEVER spent 5 hours in a LFR we normally get it down 1-2 attempt. With Nazgrim been 4 attempts. And as for your proving ground idea. Im a 544 BrM tank and i have no wish nor need to do proving ground and if they did something you had asked it would force me into do something i never need nor wish to do. And no-one has said YOU MUST DO LFR, LFR is a choice and you choose to do all that shit and been with the shit people. Deal with it

[Airwaves]

So you kept leaving them. Then you whine about not clearing it... #logic.

And proving grounds to get in? I would quit before being forced to do single player content. If i wanted to do single player content I would go play a fricking single player game.

[KBWarriors]

I refuse to touch LFR because no one in them speaks a word of English.

I swear, the majority of the people in every group I get since 5.4 are from PT realms and I've already said no, will not do it.

I do Flex on my main and my alts are geared up to the point of Timeless Isle loot and that's it. You can't pay me to step into LFR again. When I think back on LFR and look back since Dragon Soul... good riddance as far as I'm concerned.

It may work for others, but using oQueue and Flex works for me. I get to kick and choose who I want and groups run smooth. Not only that, but everyone speaks a language that I can understand. I shouldn't have to purchase Rosetta Stone Portuguese to communicate with tanks wearing PvP gear, DPS not being gemmed or enchanted or healers sitting at 100% mana not being healed.

The game is new in that particular region and how are we supposed to help them if we don't speak the same language?

[Airwaves]

The game is new in that particular region and how are we supposed to help them if we don't speak the same language?

Because the people who speak another language don't have enough people on there servers to run anything. It works both way but. Maybe they are the ones who a sick of people who don't speak there language.

[Aqua]

Pardon me but I'm reveling in this, assholes pushed out nicer/decent raiders by being scummy/leeching assholes and while I'm sorry you're sitting now in the stink of it all as probably the minority of those who run lfr with good reason, the only advice I can give is to find a flex raiding group and abandon that mess.

And those bringing back Garalon, Leishen memories etc, no. It wasn't this bad. Or maybe my groups were just especially bad (I seem to have had utterly abysmal groups week after week, lfr dragon soul was the least bad memories I have, but still awful), but more and more of my guilds social members are crying in chat about the miserable state of LFR, it wasn't quite this terrible, and certainly not on start of the week lfrs.

And I can't honestly say I miss it at all.