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  1. #201
    I dont believe that adding tankspec to other classes or introduce a new tank class will help that much. In the end, most of the players that play these classes go for the dps/healer choice. It's much easier to be a dps, less stress and responsibility.

    I have played since classic and been tanking on and off ever since. First on a warr, then on a Paladin mid TBC. My mainspec in TBC, WotlK and early cata was tank. Always liked the spec, responsibility and all that. I liked that I focused on defensive stats and reach those stat goals. I think the change in mop was bad, I dont want to be a dps when im a tank.

    I changed to dps main spec but I have now worked on tankgear for quite a while and done some LFR/Flex runs. And I gotta say, Slant is onto something. When I join in LFR these days, every douchebag blame the tanks and rage so hard if 1 little thing goes wrong. I check fights on videos etc before going into LFR, so I know the fights. But to learn them, you often have TO DO THEM. I'll admit, I do mistakes from time to time. But I learn from them and take it seriously when I fuck up and correct myself.

    The hard part is ignoring all those douchebags in chat and in tells. I see so many bad dps doing everything they can do fuck up, but they often dont get mentioned cause it really does not matter. Doing 40k dps? NP, rest fix it. You watching a movie while your character autoattacks? NP, boss dies anyway. You a tank and do a minor mistake? Get ready to be flamed.

    Back in the day people used to be positive towards tanks. I remember people used to ask me if they could add me to friendslist for tanking uses and generally be nice cause they knew tanking was and is often an ungrateful job.

    I like tanking, I do. Now im back into tanking action but im hesitant to bother doing pug flex or lfr. I know I can do most of the fights well enough, but I cant stand the amount of SHIT I get from people. It can be about anything in the world. From small mistakes to 1 gem or enchanting that is wrong. Sure, I can ignore them but I dont want that to be another part of my gametime in wow.. to put ppl on ignore.

    Often the same douchebags complaining about no tanks are the ones who bitch to them. Not saying any here are though

    Also - It kinda feels that tanks are now in raids just cause they HAVE to be there. Boss gotta hit something right? Now that Blizzard has done tanks into decent dps classes, it feels like you as a tank might aswell just swap to dps spec and go on. Now suddenly tanks needs to not only be good defensive and get praised for it, they need to be good on meters to. Another stress element wich douchebags can attack you for.
    Last edited by CrusaderNerò87; 2013-10-14 at 12:08 PM.
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    Nero - Human Retribution Paladin on Burning Blade EU.

  2. #202
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Why would I tank LFR if I can tank flex/normal in decent raid environment with people actually trying to use their brain cells?

    I don't sign up at all to LFR as a tank simply because of all the crap that is going there. Ppl afking the entire raid, DPS doing 1/3rd of my dps or none at all. Why would I want to sign up as tank if I can sign up as DPS and slack my way through and not hear shit coming from crappy dps players who moan and whine while not having any idea about what their role is on specific encounter.

    Truth is that tanking is unthankful role as far as LFR goes and rewarding in guild groups and so on.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
    I have several "Tank" capable of characters, You know the reason I rarely tank with them ?
    Yep, The attitude of people playing the game is quite frankly disgusting.

    Your not "fast" enough - Get bitched at
    Your not in full BIS gear - Get Moan about
    A wipe happens because of a none tank related reason - your a shit tank and get booted (yep had that happen to me)
    You pull too fast, Get moaned at.

    Get the picture ?
    Sadly the only way that more people will play tanking specs is not to increase the class's that can tank, but for the douchebags in the game to leave and go play COD or something else.
    BINGO! I have 4 tanks, 1 main + 3 alts (warr, druid, dk + monk, new in family from mop). Tanked lfr with all 3 in Cata, with main full hc geared got kicked numerous time without explanation. Tanked LOLFR in MoP with all 4 tanks, with 0 (zero) mistakes - got kicked with no reasons billion times (they kept bad tanks, well nice play). Couldn't afford wasting time in LOLFR and guild alt runs were rare, so I moved every alt in 2-3 other casual guilds, so I can have proper runs, without LOLFR idiots, in normal/hc's and now flex.
    OP, use search button, I'm 1000% sure you will find 1000+ post about tanks (good tanks, not bad ones) quiting on LOLFR, because of bad attitude from other players.
    The only thing that needs to be fixed about LFR - are players. Until then, keep kicking tanks, GOGOGO!!! Now, wait 45-60 minutes, my tanks are waiting 0 minutes for raids...

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Well, we are missing a mail and cloth tank really (though, the talk of a cloth class tank shouldn't even be there. I know locks can feel tanky, but doesn't feel right - my opinion of course).
    Don't want to crush your little reality, but cloth wearers, warlock and priest specifically, are way more tanky than any leather nontank wearers. And I see nothing wrong in priest tanking; while warlocks already tanked back in BC with draintanking affliction build.

    Not that I support the idea of adding more tanking specs, though. I do remember how Blizz added DKs back in Wrath. People hoped that since every DK spec could tank, there would be more tanks. And you know what? Most of DKs weren't tanks, because why bother? And that was Wrath, which had tank role dumbed around "keep threat, move boss if needed". Nowadays tanks are way too much complicated and generally it is not worth the hussle. I'd better slack as damage dealer, semiafking all the way to the end, than having to deal with people's attitude. "Tank, y u are geard in dps gear?" "Tank, y u have no stamina gems?" "Tank, y u no have such low hp?" "Loldps trinket on tank haha" spoken by lfr heroes who usually barely manage to deal 100k dps in their 520+ ilvl. No, thank you. I don't want to waste my nerves for some bads to have free epics. I have Flex now, and loving it atm
    Last edited by l33t; 2013-10-14 at 12:16 PM.

  5. #205
    it's still the most boring and often times the most hostile role to play.
    I love playing my Tank. Problem is, I blow through ToT and SoO LFR's in a day or two and I'm left with nothing to do for the rest of the week.

    I really should Tank with every possible Tank class. I've been a Tank through every MMO I've played from EQ until recently. I just love the role.

    Tanking has had it's ups and downs and as far as the "Tank Hate", I just ignore people (although I can't even remember the last time it was directed at me).

    There has been a rash of really incompetent Tanks in LFR lately though (when I run on my DPS or Healer). The idea of a Tank switch is lost on so many of them.

  6. #206
    Scarab Lord Ealyssa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Switzerland, Geneva
    I have three 90 tanks, love tanking.

    But tanking in LFR is pure nightmare. When retarded dps make you raid wipe because of 50k players dying in the first aoe ? When afk healers are behind shadowpriest in hps let you die and then the raid always flame the tank ? When you super dumb co-tank is a "herp derp my am tank me am taking damage" absurd taunt machine taunting on cd to take everything (or trying to, like this week LFR I had a pure nobrained war tank with my dk who taunted everything but couldn't maintain threat was illarious for 5 minutes then I left)

    Tanking in looking for retards is such a pain in the ass that I simply don't do it anymore. The enjoyment i have to tank is purely destroyed by wannabe carried players.

    Flex is the new LFR. Period.
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    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  7. #207
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Chemistry block.
    Christ, reading through this thread since last night is just painful. So many people saying "Tanking in LFR is easy therefore tanking must be easier than all other roles on all levels right?"

    Such bullshit. Want to know WHY LFR tanking is dumbed down to a ridiculous level? It's so that you don't wipe because of tanks. People saying "look at this list of things tanks have to do on LFR" is all well and good but I'm yet to see someone post one for a dps in how they're almost completely identical with the same amount of things to do.

    You can't do good dps without a good tank. On LFR maybe you can't tell the difference but get into real raiding and you sure as hell can. Noone will disagree that tanking LFR is easy, but to say that tanking LFR is easy therefore all tanking is easy, is so stupid. It's the same as saying you can heal on a MW monk in LFR using nothing but Renewing Mist and Uplift - correct, you can, and you'll do fine - now do that in a real raid. Suddenly not the case. That doesn't make all healing easy (yet noone seems to question that) so why would you do it for tanks?

    Not to mention the abuse all tanks get if they aren't 100% clued up on what they have to do. If a dps writes "tacs" into chat they get an explanation, if a tank does it all you hear is "oh my god kick kick kick bad tank". Why would anyone want to tank if that's the case.
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  8. #208
    This reminds me of the threads a couple years ago, bemoaning the lack of tanks who wanted to queue for pre-nerf Cataclysm 5 mans. And as before, seems like its because the expectations on the tank are so much higher than everyone else. Have to be overgeared, know all the tactics and never make mistakes.

  9. #209
    Old God Deruyter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    When I join as Tank (Prot paladin) I always ask friends, guildies and other friendly peopel on my realm if they want to join me.

    Queue times are low for all of us this way

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post

    Such bullshit. Want to know WHY LFR tanking is dumbed down to a ridiculous level? It's so that you don't wipe because of tanks. People saying "look at this list of things tanks have to do on LFR" is all well and good but I'm yet to see someone post one for a dps in how they're almost completely identical with the same amount of things to do.
    Dumuru: Run around with beams and kill extra adds (arguably more difficult than just taunting)
    Primodius: Kill adds to get mutated - I'd say on par with kiting le boss
    Animus: Running away with that chasing thingy while still trying to do DPS, about as difficult as tanking that encounter

    And as always, EVERYTHING that happens in LFR is trivial for anyone with any kind of heroic raiding experience because there's just way too much room for error, so the list above is just from my personal feeling.
    Last edited by h4rr0d; 2013-10-14 at 01:01 PM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Why would anyone want to tank if that's the case.
    even if i wanted to tank, im unable to because of the class i rolled 6 years ago.

    if NO classes were able to heal, tank AND dps, i'd say cool, whatever... but with the existence of paladins and druids, it feels like we need less classes but more options.

    no matter how big a carrot you put on the stick for tanking, only a small subset of the players are even able to try for it. if every class (or effectively every class) had the option of tanking, you'd only see a rise in the tank population.

    and THEN the only limiter would be the general player dislike for tanking.

  12. #212
    Herald of the Titans Miuku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    European Union
    The only solution to the tanking problem is for your average player stop being arrogant, selfish and impatient.

    So in essence; there isn't one. Roll a tank yourself and try.
    :: We are cows - proud and true. Come on Tauren - Moo Moo Moo!

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Akoroth View Post
    Why would anyone thank a tank? all they do is hit a button every few seconds and taunt on a few stacks? I'll give you a run down of all SoO normal mechanics and what a tank does on them

    Immerseus: taunt on stack
    Protectors: tank boss out of raid or in raid depending on health of it, 180 on gouge.
    Norushen: taunt on stack, taunt add / kill add in room, eat orbs
    Sha: taunt on stack, stand on a prison if needed
    Galakras: (not on tower) Tank adds, swap stacks on boss
    Iron Juggy: swap on stacks, do bombs if you feel like it
    Shaman: swap on stacks, dont put geyser in raid
    Nazgrim: swap on stacks
    Malk: swap on stacks
    Spoils: dont stand in crimson stuff that heals adds
    Thok: swap on stacks (open a door )
    Siegecrafter: swap on stacks, kill an add
    Paragons: dont die
    Garrosh: swap on stacks and aoe adds

    Now in LFR, half of those jobs can be ignored. Mostly the stacks part. Why should i be thanking you, of all people, the guy with the job a monkey could do? I've tanked LFRs were i've hit 20 devastates on Suen and went afk for the rest of the fight. Got up from my PC and went to do other things. When i got back i was standing in fire getting healed with a rejuvination and the boss was still hitting me. In fury gear mind you. Now in Siege theres even less mechanics, because you dont even have to move the bosses like on jin or horridon. Or pick up adds. All of your jobs are done the second you hit your first avengers shield, shield slam, death strike, maul or keg smash. You've won at tanking LFR / Normal mode.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In LFR you can be damn sure you can never use a single shield barrier or shield block and still live. I know so because i do it every time i tank LFR. I spam heroic strike to kill it faster. In fury gear. Taking more damage than normal. Devastate, shield slam and revenge, thats all the buttons you need unless you want to give yourself the extra effort of heroic striking too.
    Well my initial assumption was just proven correct by your last statement. You make the healers job more difficult because you either over gear lfr or just plain out don't care. As for your assessment much like the other LFR heroes you fail to see the whole thing so congrats. But lets go with what you said about tanking being boring because of those things.

    DPS on all bosses minus Thok. Don't stand in stuff and do your rotation, On Thok Don't stand in stuff do your rotation and if you get eyes over you run down the hallway.
    Healers on all bosses. Don't stand in stuff, manage your mana based on how bad the players in your particular LFR are and click the bar/use mouseover macro.

    So why exactly is tanking the most boring thing to do in WoW again? The difference between them is DPS only gets yelled at if hes under x amount of DPS. Healers only get yelled at when they are under x amount of HPS, and tanks get yelled at everytime some other idiot wipes the group. Now which group would you like to be in?

    OH and FYI you forgot on Spoils that the tank has to keep a steady pace of breaking boxes that his healers/dps can keep up with which is the most important part of the fight.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndra View Post
    so you want to homogenize classes even more by adding tank specs for a few classes.. ignoring two pure classes rogues and mages. did it occur to you that people playing certain classes love them BECAUSE they cant tank? soloing some stuff is one thing, but pure dps classes are fun in spite of not being able to heal/tank. so no, we dont need to open up classes to tanking roles just to attempt to lower your queue times.

    edit: they actually added a new tank class.. monks. no real time decrease was felt. my guess, its not a desirable role no matter how many classes can tank. change the way the players treat everybody and our times might go down.
    Yup. That's the real point. You could add a dozen tank classes and we'd still be short tanks. Tanking is about leadership and the willingness to assume responsibility for a group situation. If a hunter wanted to be a tank they can role a tank class. But, seriously, how many hunters do you know that have the personality to be tanks?

  15. #215
    I don't think that solution (spreading the tank role around) will have the desired effect. There's always a shortage of tanks because most people just don't want to tank. In LFR in particular, it's a potentially high stress role, herding abusive LFR cats who call the tanks retards for every mistake, and having to know the mechanics of the fights. It takes a thick skin, preparedness with strats, and a willingness to participate with almost 100% uptime through the raid. Who wants to queue LFR to do that?

  16. #216
    I agree with most people in this thread: the lack of tanks is a function of player impatience, arrogance and incompetence. I have 6 level 90 alts and a main (dk), most of them can tank but I choose not to in LFR because of the ridiculous amount of hate laid upon them. Sometimes when I'm in LFR and start to get annoyed, I put myself in their shoes: would I have made a pull like that? Would I have used X cooldown at that time? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps they had a problem, I don't know and if I can't do a better job (or if I can, but I didn't sign up for it) then I keep my mouth shut and give people the benefit of the doubt. The reason I don't tank, despite being quite competent (been playing blood since its inception), is that I really don't want to feel the ignorant hate from others. When I hit 90 on my dk I was so excited to get into LFR and get tanking, but I needed gear and knowledge so I went as frost, I immediately learned that tanking in LFR may not be as fun as I thought. The number of tanks that were kicked for *no good reason* was astounding. People have 0 patience. Like a person above me said, being dps I can ask for a strat or tactics and it's no big deal; as a tank if I don't know every single angle of a fight inside and out, then I get railed against for the whole run, if not kicked. And people wonder why it takes so long in LFR for a tank to pop up, please.

  17. #217
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Iowa - Franconia
    Quote Originally Posted by mgs View Post
    1. Allow warlocks to tank. They've given us a glyph, we are half-way there.
    2. Allow shamans to tank. They've given us shield and Rockbiter, we are half-way there.
    3. Allow hunters to tank. Probably a bit harder due to indirect pet control, but would be awesome.
    1. That would make some sense.
    2. I see your point, but I don't like that idea.
    3. That would make some sense too..
    For both, Locks and Hunters there would be one fact that would need to be brought into the people's heads though.
    When you assume the role as tank with your pet, people cannot any longer judge you as a DPS role. Your usual number output will decline big time. You are (depending on the encounter) more busy with clicking your pet control buttons, than with doing your dps job. I see that as a problem. The community as a whole has a hard time to grasp the concept of common sense.
    But I would actually support the idea. When I play my hunter and do lower content, I am having a blast to have my pet tank, and I have to use my brain to do it efficiently. I'm not talking lower content, as in solo content. I mean content (level 80 - 90) where my pet will ultimately die when I make a wrong choice.

    I also don't see it as a class homogenization.... Both, Locks and Hunters assumed the roles as off tanks for many years already... Naxx, and the Horsemen comes to mind....
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  18. #218
    I think the "tank shortage" involves more than a raids attitude if they mess up. It involves actually learning an entire raid, mechanics and all.

    People these days are so lazy and casual about the game that to tell them they may have to spend an hour or two reading about how the fight actually works instead of "press button" is a lot to ask. Look at how crappy most LFR dps is and this claim can be backed up.

  19. #219
    The Patient Wulfstan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    United States, Pennsylvania
    Tanking is generally to stressful for most players. Adding more tanking specs wont change that fact.
    The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.- George Carlin

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Eats Compost View Post
    Currently, 5 classes can tank and 5 classes can heal, both out of the 11 available classes. It wouldn't hurt to add Warlock tanking, and it'd have the added bonus of finally adding that role to cloth gear.
    cloth tanks is just a dumb concept. sorry, no.

    plate stops a sword.
    leather can be waxed and hardened to stop a sword.

    cloth. NOT.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DrMcNinja View Post
    And with that I'd like to say that I miss the old seals and stance dancing with the occasional Warlock/Mage tanking. R.I.P.
    yah. seals, righteous defense, divine sacrifice. fun stuff.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

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