[Speculation]Do you think Flex will eventually scale to 5-man?

[Geminiel]

I'm talking Long-Term(like 2+ expansions after data has been compiled from flex)

I think it makes sense, they've said it's too difficult to make raids and 5-man's together and there is a market for it. I don't think it's a good strategy to try and make all these different denominations of content, it just divides resources. Honestly I would long-term like to see flex scale to 3-man and maybe eventually have a single player option(really, really long term). A large chunk of the community plays this game exactly like a single player game every day. If Blizzard can develop a system that gives higher rewards for group play and varying levels of difficulty for people to play at in Flex-mode than this could help people enjoy the game at their own pace and eventually getting better(e.g. If you can beat a Normal Mode encounter in single player you are more likely to be capable of beating group content at the same difficulty level)

So many people use LFR as if the other players were all A.I. driven and some use it out of spite and that sucks for the people who are actually looking for people to group and raid with. This of course will always be a problem but letting people play how they want to play seems like a good step in helping build this community up. Honestly it will boil down to gear and how they distribute it, and I do think eventually if this merges with Normal & Heroic Difficulty someone who does Single player Heroic shouldn't be on par with 25-man Heroic Gear.

I think WoW has a bright future and while Blizzard has definitely changed, as all things do, I think they are still aiming for the quality they always have.

What are your thoughts?

[Chewbacka]

I really hope it at least scales down to 7 players im on a low pop realm at just finding 10 ppl that wanna raid is almost impossible and i dont think merging 2 low pop realms will change it much

[Deleted]

Use OQ or Open Raid

[Geminiel]

I really hope it at least scales down to 7 players im on a low pop realm at just finding 10 ppl that wanna raid is almost impossible and i dont think merging 2 low pop realms will change it much

I think Blizzard's plan with connected realms in the future is simple.

To start, connect Low Pop Servers with the same dominant Faction so that you eventually have a medium Connected Realm with a severe Population Imbalance and then merge that with a another Connected Realm with a Severe imbalance of the opposite faction. It won't fix things long term and there will be some connected realms still unbalanced but it will be a heck of a lot better than now until they can find a final solution.

[Forgettable]

I'd be ok with flex scaling below a 10man raid. I think that less than 5 players would make it really hard to balance though. And if they made raid solo content, what about the tanks and healers? I assume they'd tune it for a dps character... I don't know, it seems like a lot of work to make 17 different types of content because going below 10 people in a raid would likely require removal or changing of mechanics.

[Deleted]

As soon as you scale lower than 10, you have issues with the setup. Let's say you scale down to 7.

2 healers, 2 tanks and 3 dps? Compared to 5 or even 6 dps with 10man. Or scale down to 5man, are we supposed to drop one of the tanks and get 1 tank 1 healer 3 dps? It would be really hard to get a decent number since Blizzard would basically have to tune it to a very specific setup. In the current Flex, you can run 2 tanks 5 dps 4 healers and still beat enrage timers or even 5 healers, but going down to the smaller groups, that would be harder.

I think Blizzard's plan with connected realms in the future is simple.

To start, connect Low Pop Servers with the same dominant Faction so that you eventually have a medium Connected Realm with a severe Population Imbalance and then merge that with a another Connected Realm with a Severe imbalance of the opposite faction. It won't fix things long term and there will be some connected realms still unbalanced but it will be a heck of a lot better than now until they can find a final solution.

Don't count on it. The best solution Blizzard ever could've made would be to let players get free migs if the following conditions apply:

* The server you transfer to has a population that is smaller than your current server.
* If you're horde and you're transfering to another server as horde, the horde on the new server can not be dominant. (same applies to ally)
* If you're horde and you're transfering to another server as horde, the current server you're on has to be horde dominated. (same applies to ally)

If Blizzard gave you free transfers when these conditions applied, we would've had much more balanced servers today and this would probably be the very best long-term and short-term fix, so don't expect them to do anything after merging realms.

[Geminiel]

I'd be ok with flex scaling below a 10man raid. I think that less than 5 players would make it really hard to balance though. And if they made raid solo content, what about the tanks and healers? I assume they'd tune it for a dps character... I don't know, it seems like a lot of work to make 17 different types of content because going below 10 people in a raid would likely require removal or changing of mechanics.

I agree balance will be a problem, but the long term goal has to be to try and balance this game. I think the majority of the players in this game want a balanced game and with Blizzard testing 3-man content on a harder difficulty that indicates to me they are flirting with it.

[Sildor]

I don't think it will in the near future and I hope it never will.

It's the same thing as path of least resistance, which is a major reason why 10-man raiding is flourishing and 25-man is not. It's easier to organize something with fewer people. If they made the two raid sizes 5 and 10-man then 5-man would be more popular, then 3-man and 5-man and 3-man would be more popular, until the game just reaches pure single player.

It's not a good path to take and Blizzard knows that, there's already a lot of 5-man content in the game without flex.

[Geminiel]

Don't count on it. The best solution Blizzard every could've made would be to let players get free migs if the following conditions apply:

* The server you transfer to has a population that is smaller than your current server.
* If you're horde and you're transfering to another server as horde, the horde on the new server can not be dominant. (same applies to ally)
* If you're horde and you're transfering to another server as horde, the current server you're on has to be horde dominated. (same applies to ally)

If Blizzard gave you free transfers when these conditions applied, we would've had much more balanced servers today and this would probably be the very best long-term and short-term fix, so don't expect them to do anything after merging realms.

I think you miss interpreted what I said. This connected realm solution is temporary, the solution you provide is a logical final solution but I feel like money may be playing the devil in this situation.

[Kelimbror]

No. I can see it going to 8 or maybe 7, but 5? I just don't see how that would be possible. In order to go that route they would basically have to cease continued dungeon development which was one of the largest complaints with MoP. I'd love it for accessibility's sake, as I could play with my small group successfully, but it would also stifle the encounter dev team into making poor quality raids.

[Geminiel]

I don't think it will in the near future and I hope it never will.

It's the same thing as path of least resistance, which is a major reason why 10-man raiding is flourishing and 25-man is not. It's easier to organize something with fewer people. If they made the two raid sizes 5 and 10-man then 5-man would be more popular, then 3-man and 5-man and 3-man would be more popular, until the game just reaches pure single player.

It's not a good path to take and Blizzard knows that, there's already a lot of 5-man content in the game without flex.

People want to play this game and grouping with 25 strangers just isn't comfortable for a lot of people and people are always leaving, it is a large hassle to most people. Some of course make it work but the people doing 25-man are the ones who want to do 25-man.

Blizzard introduced 25-man because they knew 40-man raids were a nightmare to organize. 25-man is still very difficult to organize, even 10-man has it's challenges. Welcome to the anti-social 21st century, people want to play this game with people they are comfortable with and meet people at their own pace. Forcing people to play with 24 random people is illogical and makes people feel uncomfortable and egotistical which makes for a shittier experience for people actually trying to do 25-man.

WoW is a divided community, the more Blizzard embraces that reality the more this game will continue to succeed. Blizzard may have to incur some more loses through that process but I'm sure they will get there.

- - - Updated - - -

No. I can see it going to 8 or maybe 7, but 5? I just don't see how that would be possible. In order to go that route they would basically have to cease continued dungeon development which was one of the largest complaints with MoP. I'd love it for accessibility's sake, as I could play with my small group successfully, but it would also stifle the encounter dev team into making poor quality raids.

I'm pretty sure the complaint is the lack of 5-man content. A raid is a dungeon when you think about it and allowing a 5-man mode would be logical that solves the problem of 5-man development.

[MoanaLisa]

I doubt it. The primary problem is with mechanics and how they scale. I'm not sure it's a good idea for Blizzard to start creating raid mechanics that can actually work with a base of five people although I suppose it's possible. Ten is fine.

[Kelimbror]

I'm pretty sure the complaint is the lack of 5-man content. A raid is a dungeon when you think about it and allowing a 5-man mode would be logical that solves the problem of 5-man development.

No, it was specifically a lack of dungeons. Challenge modes are 5 man content. The isle has 5 man content. It was a lack of new dungeons for the complaint.

And no, a raid is not a dungeon when I think about it because design would suffer. There are plenty of things that just can't be done with only 5 people. Tank swaps, removing a player(s) from the field via innovative mechanics (abomb driving) or just CC, certain debuffs and positioning, and ultimately the large size of some of the encounter rooms.

Negating the ill attempted mechanics like that for the sake of making it doable by 5 people would be worthless. If your main point is that they could reduce all of the mechanics down to a dungeon tank and spank, umm sure, they could do it. But why would they want to? Raids are larger, more prestigous and challenging, and require an above average number of players to complete. That's why they exist in the first place. Additionally, some things like the size of rooms and tank swapping/add pickup making encounters more difficult would not be negated from number balancing and removal of abilities...it simply wouldn't be possible in a 5 man.

Think about adds that spawn in the backs of rooms that need to die immediately. With only the potential of bringing 3 dps. suddenly melee have dropped to being near worthless or every group will require 1 melee and 2 ranged. It starts to limit who can and can't do things and is overall much messier than knowing people will have options. Classes will start to be lobbied for balancing based on their capabilities in a 5 man setting. Druids with hots and AOE heals will start to be the only acceptable healer in a 5 man, b/c the spacing and need of types of healing will not favor other classes.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of how horrible an idea this is and also why it won't happen.

[Aphrel]

the hardest thing to find is tanks, (and you gotta have 2 of them for pretty much all encounters), if they made flex down to 5man, are you suppose to make a grp of 2tanks 1 healer 2 dps? sounds like a bad change tbh.

[Arbs]

Use OQ or Open Raid

OQ is prbly getting shut down & Open Raid its been ruined by LFR junkies.

[Baracuda]

Never lower than 8.

[Deleted]

Dont think so but I hope so.

[Geminiel]

the hardest thing to find is tanks, (and you gotta have 2 of them for pretty much all encounters), if they made flex down to 5man, are you suppose to make a grp of 2tanks 1 healer 2 dps? sounds like a bad change tbh.

One has to think it would be more resource effective to make mechanics for a 5-man mode vs making 5-man dungeons. Their could always be different thresholds, I imagine WoW is going to have changed significantly by the time this actually happens. I don't foresee this happening until at least an expansion worth of data has been compiled on flex.

[thedingleberry]

It's possible. My guess is that they may make 6.0+ scenarios scale to a certain extent, maybe from 3-8 people. As far as dungeons, I'm guessing they will keep it 1 tank, 1 healer, but maybe they will let you bring 3-4 damage and scale it slightly. 5+ damage would be pushing it for 1 healer to keep alive and any more than that you mind as well just do a flex raid.

[Kelimbror]

OQ is prbly getting shut down & Open Raid its been ruined by LFR junkies.

Wait, what Arbs? Where did you hear OQ is getting shut down? If Blizzard is behind that, it will be a terrible move on their part.