Siegecrafter Blackfuse Assembly Line Waves (Heroic Planning)

[Angelicat]

Mines is just a pain to deal with in 10s for various obvious reasons (not having nearly the same amount of CCs/AoEs/Grips etc, not to mention you don't have enough people with engineer belt tinket to trivialize it in some cases). Missile is honestly very easy to deal with unless you get two non-empowered ones in a row, then you risk overlapping between the previous one ending and the new one starting which can lead to some chaotic situations. Mines also needlessly extent the fight in 10 man by a good margin. If you have people who can consistently dodge missiles (especially during magnet/empowered lasers) it's the easiest way to go. Killing missiles does take the "skill" component out but I feel adds a very hefty check in regards to having the right comp to deal with it (both dps and CC wise).

I kinda understand why 25 mans kill mines instead but honestly if 10 mans can deal with missiles, I don't see why 25 mans can't either. More people, more chances someone will screw up?

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Also, are people really sure the empowers aren't just predetermined from the onset, and if you kill an empowered weapon the next one in line gets it or something? The reason I'm wondering is cause we tried this order once in our 10 man -

1: Empowered Missile + Laser (kill Mine)
2: Empowered Laser + Missile (kill Mine)
3: Empowered Magnet + Laser (kill Missile)
4: Empowered Missile + Laser (kill Mine)
5: Empowered Magnet + Missile (kill Mine)
6: Empowered Mine + Laser (kill Mine)
7: Empowered Missile + Mine (kill Laser)

The bolded part is what our assumption was - that because we had just gotten empowered mines on the 6th wave, we would not get them again on 7. However, he empowered mines at that point again and it was regular missiles. Since then we have just killed mines on every wave and only have to deal with them once after the 6th belt.

[Justwait]

Also, are people really sure the empowers aren't just predetermined from the onset, and if you kill an empowered weapon the next one in line gets it or something? The reason I'm wondering is cause we tried this order once in our 10 man -

Empower priority is: Magnet > Mines > Missile > Laser
And each weapon has an Empowered counter, if that counter is lower than the other weapon on the belt it will overpower instead.

just reminding you of a post on page 1.

[Angelicat]

just reminding you of a post on page 1.

Ah that makes sense, not sure how I missed that post. I thought about the priority thing but never figured there was a counter.

[Deleted]

We've been discussing what tactic to go with over and over and we've been testing several different ones. Some say we should stop changing tactic all the time and just keep going with one - even though there's zero improvement after 20 wipes. Others say the opposite and I think people are getting confused tbh.

Pretty much how it went for us aswell. Had 0 improvements, changed around so much, some people just wanted to stick with a tactic, especially since we were always going back to the same tactic over and over again. But when we did the boss there was 0 videos and tactics out for 10 man, so our raid leader simply said that we have to test stuff out, no other choice.

But if I had to pick out one single thing that we really suck at, I'd say it's remembering how to position everything perfectly and if there's 1 thing we're good at, it's probably putting more responsibility on a few key members tbh.

Individual responsibility is really high on siegecrafter. Everyone need to perform the tactics. Sometimes you just have to keep at it until people learn. It still sounds like killing mines on the belt is the easier thing for you, even though you have issues with people positioning them, since sounds like mines is an even bigger problem for you.

[Pennoyer]

1: Empowered Missile + Laser (kill Mine)
2: Empowered Laser + Missile (kill Mine)
3: Empowered Magnet + Laser (kill Missile)
4: Empowered Missile + Laser (kill Mine)
5: Empowered Magnet + Missile (kill Mine)
6: Empowered Mine + Laser (kill Mine)
7: Empowered Missile + Mine (kill Laser)

The bolded part is what our assumption was - that because we had just gotten empowered mines on the 6th wave, we would not get them again on 7. However, he empowered mines at that point again and it was regular missiles. Since then we have just killed mines on every wave and only have to deal with them once after the 6th belt.

When you get to Wave 7, missiles will have 2 points, magnet has 2, laser has 1, and mines has 1. So it should pick mines again b/c between mines and missiles, mines has been empowered 1 less time by that point.

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the information, Firefly.

I'm currently not sure about how difficult it is to deal with Magnets compared to other weapons. We plan to definately kill as many Mines on the belt as possible because they cost a lot of DPS and it screws up positioning on 10man if you want to effectively cleave/AoE them down. We also want to have as many Missles as possible because it feels like the easiest mechanic. I saw you didn't include killing a Magnet in any of the Tactics you posted so basically you take as many Magnets as possible.

Aren't they a pain to deal with in 10man? I must admit we only had 2 evenings on Siegecrafter until now and we simply didnt even consider testing to leave a Magnet alive because we imagined it very difficult to heal as you dont have that many Raid-CDs on 10man.

We currently kill the first Weapons as follows: Mine, Mine, Magnet, Mine (we're stuck right there). So we get 1. Emp. Missles + Laser, 2. Emp. Laser + Missles, 3. Emp. Missles + Laser, 4. Emp. Laser + Missles.
Missles never are a problem... neither Empowered nor Normal, had nobody die on it in 60 trys or something like that. But Lasers kill us, often someone gets targeted by Sawblade, has to move and gets the Fire DoT from the Empowered Laser. Then he drops and Overload either kills him or brings him so low the next DoT ticks kill him.

Should we try to get an Empowered Magnet for third wave by killing the Missles? Forth wave would be Empowered Missles + Normal Laser which is very easy. Followed by a fifth wave with Empowered Magnet and Normal Missles which should be ok if Magnet isnt that hard.

[Deleted]

Honestly, we never tried to kill the magnets. It is for sure viable, and hey, whatever works for you works. Siegecrafter is one of those bosses where you need to try different things though, so I advice you to try not killing them for a few attempts and see what works best for you. Dont just give it 1-2 attempts, give it a few attempts to get to know magnets etc and see what works best for you. If you in the end decide to kill magnets, that is completely fine.

The only magnet that we found to be really annoying was the first one after the empowered laser phase. After that they were kinda easy. It is not the magnet itself that is hard, but it is that the DoT from the magnet often brings player so low, that if they fail on anything else they get one shotted. Most classes can survive getting hit by a drill for example if they are at 100% health, but with the magnet they are often wobbling around 80% which means that failing on anything else often instantly kills you.

So I guess my best tip for you is just try different things, I have no experience myself at killing magnets, that was pretty much the only thing we never tried. But what works for you works. So dont get all hellbent on seeing how others do it "They did it this way", since looking at the earlier kill videos, pretty much every single 10 man guild used quite different tactics.

[Deleted]

For the waves with duplicate weapons, such as wave 6 (double mine), wave 9 (double laser), wave 11 (double missile), has anyone tried killing the remaining one and have the duplicate weapons out in the field? In all of the videos I checked I've never seen the duplicate weapons out.

Basically can I consider the weapon to kill on these waves as a given regardless of tactic, or is it viable to have duplicate weapons out? I prefer the former as that would limit the amount of possible wave combinations.