Having the new Warchief is meh

[TheAmazingFeedz]

oh ofc, we can clearly deduce this from the heaps of tauren lore out there... oh wait. what tauren lore?

Reading your comments actually kind of hurts me in the inside. You are completely changing the topic of the thread from not wanting Vol'Jin as warchief to Blizzard not giving enough Tauren lore. I think it would be best for all of us if you just shut the fuck up, since it is all fictional and it is all created by Blizzard.

Also, the majority actually prefers Vol'Jin as warchief, though the ones that don't are the ones that actually waste their time posting and whining on forums.

Infracted.

[Duravian]

the horde allied with the amani during the second war, they burned their forests, they killed many of their people. not to mention most of the hordes races arent exactly "pretty"

the blood elves really shouldve been alliance but i guess the whole gameplay trumps story thing always comes first.

just because blizzard wrote the blood elves disliking the alliance now doesnt mean they are all of a sudden buddies with the horde, they just currently dislike the horde less than they dislike the alliance.

The Alliance betrayed the Blood Elves. More specifically, a small sect of the Alliance betrayed and condemned the entire race, and the modern Alliance has done nothing to apologize or make amends. What the hell is there to like about the Alliance when the Blood Elves entire race is cast out and abandoned by them in their greatest time of need(when the Scourge came up and screwed over everyone). The Horde has been the only friendly faction towards the Blood Elves, when Sylvanas aided them in Ghostlands, when Thrall allowed them to join the Horde in the first place (he certainly didn't have to). After all these years and everything the Blood Elves have contributed to the Horde war effort, I'd say they're way past the awkward new-to-the-Horde phase that only really held legitimacy in BC.

[Skayth]

I am against Vol'Jin, and have been from the start. There were three reasons why Garrosh was a failure as a warchief: thrall, cairne, and Vol'jin.

Immediately from the get go, of Thrall stepping down and choosing Garrosh over Saurfang or Cairne, he chooses the worst choice, the choice easiest to go to war with the Alliance rather than simply talking and negotiating. So what right does Thrall have to choose the next warchief? None. He was the cause of this damn fiasco to begin with, after him pussyfooting out of the Horde.

Next is Both Vol'Jin and Cairne. Lore states that Thrall tells them to help advise the Garrosh, to help him, as Etrigg alone cannot do it, (shown in the Siege.) Nope, they were disgusted with the choice, just as much as most of the Horde players to begin with, that they abandoned ship before Thrall even stepped down. Cairne going into a Deathmatch with Garrosh, only to be written out for the badly written Garrosh. Vol'Jin telling Garrosh he was already planning to kill him. They did not advice him at all. They are the cause of all this. Being badly written characters, and immediately trying to kill a warchief immediately after his empowerment does not constitute cool points, rather, they are the reason Garrosh turned out this way.

If he had both Vol'Jin and Cairne advising him, we would not have had this "war." But rather, after "defeating" Garrosh, we empower the worst one, who immediately did not give Garrosh a chance. Vol'Jin deserves death for his actions, and only the Honorable deserve to be Warchief, Ie. Nazgrim (though his oath led to his death) and Saurfang, not someone who tried to backstab Garrosh at the very beginning. All three deserve consequences for their actions, Thrall the least, as he did not know his friends would immediately abandon Garrosh, and as much as I hate to say it, Cairne got what he deserved, he should have at least waited a few months, while trying to advice him, before actually going "Thrall make you warchief, I killz you!" Vol'Jin deserves death for his actions as well, but being a major lore character, and the amount of "casualties" the Horde has taken, he is not even going to get a smack on his wrist.

The best candidates for warchief are/were Saurfang, Nazgrim, Lor'themar, Baine, and even Sylvannas over Vol'Jin. Saurfang because he has the knowledge of knowing war, and understands the meaning behind it, and would never ever push for war after everything that has happened to him. Plus, he is wise beyond his years( as old as he is), and even stood behind Garrosh, being an honorable Orc all the way up to point where Garrosh had become a menace to the world. Nazgrim is in a similar situation with Saurfang, being bound by his oath, which in the end killed him, even though he knew his Warchief was wrong. Lor'themar, since the expansion, showed such evolution, leadership, and worry for his people that he simply made the list of being the best Non-orc warchief. Baine, while new to leading the Tauren, has already handled the reigns pretty well, and stood behind Garrosh, but kept a weary eye on him, and abandoned ship when they knew the ship was sinking. Sylvannas over Vol'Jin... You may question me this, but at least she made it known she never liked Garrosh and planned to do everything in her power to keep HER people alive, even using plague when told not to, as she saw Garrosh as incompetent, and unlike Vol'Jin, Thrall did not tell her to advice Garrosh to make him a better leader. She was true to her nature, and that being a complete "bitch" (garrosh's words) towards them. While she would have been the least likely to ever be Warchief, ever, she makes more sense than Vol'Jin, lorewise.

Me, I was hoping for Lor'themar, as they said someone we would not expect, as everyone... Everyone expected Vol'Jin, and they lied to us.

[Immitis]

The Alliance betrayed the Blood Elves. More specifically, a small sect of the Alliance betrayed and condemned the entire race, and the modern Alliance has done nothing to apologize or make amends. What the hell is there to like about the Alliance when the Blood Elves entire race is cast out and abandoned by them in their greatest time of need(when the Scourge came up and screwed over everyone). The Horde has been the only friendly faction towards the Blood Elves, when Sylvanas aided them in Ghostlands, when Thrall allowed them to join the Horde in the first place (he certainly didn't have to). After all these years and everything the Blood Elves have contributed to the Horde war effort, I'd say they're way past the awkward new-to-the-Horde phase that only really held legitimacy in BC.

the alliance didnt abandon them in their greatest time of need. the scourge didnt only attack quel'thalas, they had already ravaged lordaeron before marching to quel'thalas the alliance were in a zombie apocalypse all their own and garithos, the racist person who committed those evil acts was acting on his own.

not to mention the blood elves had to be MIND CONTROLLED in order to accept the horde.

[Duravian]

not to mention the blood elves had to be MIND CONTROLLED in order to accept the horde.

Uhh.......... what?

[TheAmazingFeedz]

I am against Vol'Jin, and have been from the start. There were three reasons why Garrosh was a failure as a warchief: thrall, cairne, and Vol'jin.

Immediately from the get go, of Thrall stepping down and choosing Garrosh over Saurfang or Cairne, he chooses the worst choice, the choice easiest to go to war with the Alliance rather than simply talking and negotiating. So what right does Thrall have to choose the next warchief? None. He was the cause of this damn fiasco to begin with, after him pussyfooting out of the Horde.

Next is Both Vol'Jin and Cairne. Lore states that Thrall tells them to help advise the Garrosh, to help him, as Etrigg alone cannot do it, (shown in the Siege.) Nope, they were disgusted with the choice, just as much as most of the Horde players to begin with, that they abandoned ship before Thrall even stepped down. Cairne going into a Deathmatch with Garrosh, only to be written out for the badly written Garrosh. Vol'Jin telling Garrosh he was already planning to kill him. They did not advice him at all. They are the cause of all this. Being badly written characters, and immediately trying to kill a warchief immediately after his empowerment does not constitute cool points, rather, they are the reason Garrosh turned out this way.

If he had both Vol'Jin and Cairne advising him, we would not have had this "war." But rather, after "defeating" Garrosh, we empower the worst one, who immediately did not give Garrosh a chance. Vol'Jin deserves death for his actions, and only the Honorable deserve to be Warchief, Ie. Nazgrim (though his oath led to his death) and Saurfang, not someone who tried to backstab Garrosh at the very beginning. All three deserve consequences for their actions, Thrall the least, as he did not know his friends would immediately abandon Garrosh, and as much as I hate to say it, Cairne got what he deserved, he should have at least waited a few months, while trying to advice him, before actually going "Thrall make you warchief, I killz you!" Vol'Jin deserves death for his actions as well, but being a major lore character, and the amount of "casualties" the Horde has taken, he is not even going to get a smack on his wrist.

The best candidates for warchief are/were Saurfang, Nazgrim, Lor'themar, Baine, and even Sylvannas over Vol'Jin. Saurfang because he has the knowledge of knowing war, and understands the meaning behind it, and would never ever push for war after everything that has happened to him. Plus, he is wise beyond his years( as old as he is), and even stood behind Garrosh, being an honorable Orc all the way up to point where Garrosh had become a menace to the world. Nazgrim is in a similar situation with Saurfang, being bound by his oath, which in the end killed him, even though he knew his Warchief was wrong. Lor'themar, since the expansion, showed such evolution, leadership, and worry for his people that he simply made the list of being the best Non-orc warchief. Baine, while new to leading the Tauren, has already handled the reigns pretty well, and stood behind Garrosh, but kept a weary eye on him, and abandoned ship when they knew the ship was sinking. Sylvannas over Vol'Jin... You may question me this, but at least she made it known she never liked Garrosh and planned to do everything in her power to keep HER people alive, even using plague when told not to, as she saw Garrosh as incompetent, and unlike Vol'Jin, Thrall did not tell her to advice Garrosh to make him a better leader. She was true to her nature, and that being a complete "bitch" (garrosh's words) towards them. While she would have been the least likely to ever be Warchief, ever, she makes more sense than Vol'Jin, lorewise.

Me, I was hoping for Lor'themar, as they said someone we would not expect, as everyone... Everyone expected Vol'Jin, and they lied to us.

Nothing important to read here. Most of it is all assumption and speculation. Garrosh was a bad apple from the start, he is too much like his father and gets easily corrupted with power. I actually kind of enjoyed Garrosh as a character.

[Immitis]

I really, really, really, disagree.
I think the Alliance has much more to account for than the current Horde.

one racist general who was acting on his own racist thoughts during a zombie apocalypse who died over a decade ago wheras the rest of the alliance still accepted the blood elves/high elves even keeping the statue of alleria up, varian views valeera sanguinar as a sister and personal friend who was even at the battle for undercity, and he was personally in talks to have the blood elves rejoin.

the only people in the alliance who openly dislike the blood elves are the night elves and jaina. the dwarves thought they were uppity but the rest of the alliance got along well with them.

the only reason the blood elves are in the horde is because the alliance outnumbered the horde by alot back in vanilla and blood elves were one of the most requested races.

they switched sides for gameplay reasons not lore reasons. painting the entire alliance as similar to garithos had to be added in during bc all lore before that showed the high elves/blood elves still being on good terms with the alliance, the high elves were going to be a playable race in vanilla wow but got cut and in vanilla there was going to be an alliance exclusive faction of silvermoon refugees.

- - - Updated - - -

Uhh.......... what?

the blood elves were mind controlled into allying with the horde. whenever blood elves protest in silvermoon and ask why the blood elves are allying with the orcs instead of their former allies and friends in the alliance a magister comes, stuns them and then mind controls them and leaves, then all of a sudden the same blood elves who were protesting about joining the horde all of a sudden start shouting pro horde propaganda

[Skayth]

the alliance didnt abandon them in their greatest time of need. the scourge didnt only attack quel'thalas, they had already ravaged lordaeron before marching to quel'thalas the alliance were in a zombie apocalypse all their own and garithos, the racist person who committed those evil acts was acting on his own.

not to mention the blood elves had to be MIND CONTROLLED in order to accept the horde.

mind controlled... right....

go back and do the blood elf starting zones. You will see that the alliance was nothing but traitorous during the entirety of the first zone, before being a minor part of the second one. The blood elves were originally going to go back with the alliance, but it was the night elves and a stupid dwarf that made them choose otherwise. Not to mention, it was their Kin in the Forsakened, as not all forsakened are undead humans not to mention Sylvannas, that came to help them in the ghostlands. The Horde has been nothing but help to them, at least till MoP.

Also, for the pro-propaganda, it was because, during this time, it did not matter which side they wanted to join, as long as they could go and join their great leader, Kael'thalas, by piggy backing one faction through the dark portal.

[Deleted]

The Blood Elves joined Horde because the Alliance proverbially told 'em to F OFF

[Deleted]

Vol'Jin and Cairne. Lore states that Thrall tells them to help advise the Garrosh, to help him,Nope, they were disgusted with the choice, just as much as most of the Horde players to begin with, that they abandoned ship before Thrall even stepped down. Cairne going into a Deathmatch with Garrosh, only to be written out for the badly written Garrosh. Vol'Jin telling Garrosh he was already planning to kill him. They did not advice him at all. They are the cause of all this. Being badly written characters, and immediately trying to kill a warchief immediately after his empowerment does not constitute cool points, rather, they are the reason Garrosh turned out this way.

If he had both Vol'Jin and Cairne advising him, we would not have had this "war." But rather, after "defeating" Garrosh, we empower the worst one, who immediately did not give Garrosh a chance. Vol'Jin deserves death for his actions, and only the Honorable deserve to be Warchief, not someone who tried to backstab Garrosh at the very beginning. All three deserve consequences for their actions, Thrall the least, as he did not know his friends would immediately abandon Garrosh, and as much as I hate to say it, Cairne got what he deserved, he should have at least waited a few months, while trying to advice him, before actually going "Thrall make you warchief, I killz you!" Vol'Jin deserves death for his actions as well, but being a major lore character, and the amount of "casualties" the Horde has taken, he is not even going to get a smack on his wrist.

Saurfang is wise beyond his years( as old as he is), and even stood behind Garrosh, being an honorable Orc all the way up to point where Garrosh had become a menace to the world. Sylvannas over Vol'Jin... You may question me this, but at least she made it known she never liked Garrosh and planned to do everything in her power to keep HER people alive, even using plague when told not to, as she saw Garrosh as incompetent, and unlike Vol'Jin, Thrall did not tell her to advice Garrosh to make him a better leader. She was true to her nature, and that being a complete "bitch" (garrosh's words) towards them. While she would have been the least likely to ever be Warchief, ever, she makes more sense than Vol'Jin, lorewise.

Vol'jin and Cairne were only disgusted by the behaviour Garrosh showed in Northrend, being an all out Alliance hater and, with him being Warchief, destroying everything Thrall's Horde stood for. They eventually realised Garrosh would not deem their advise worthy because it appears Trolls are weak since they took no part in the Northrend war.

Honor lies in doing everything in your power to do the right thing. Garrosh would be the Horde's certain doom if it had not been Vol'jin to make the first move, ironically Garrosh was the first to try and kill Vol'jin..
Saurfang was probably the first to doubt Garrosh and already made clear that he would kill him if he took the Horde down that dark path again.

Sylvanas over Vol'jin in terms of protecting their respective people? If Vol'jin hadn't done shit all the Darkspear trolls would be impaled on spires, even without certain "betrayal". Sylvanas cares only for her personal agenda, whilst Vol'jin did what was best for every member of the Horde.

[Immitis]

mind controlled... right.....

go to silvermoon and watch the protestors. and the dwarf and night elves sabotaging the blood elves in the starting zone is just blizzards half arsed way of making the alliance out to be the bad guys against the blood elves.

why would the alliance want to sabotage their former allies? why would the night elves want to invade quel'thalas when the burning legion is invading through the dark portal? it doesnt make any sense

[Skronk]

So basically we should take what Blizzard says with a grain of salt because clearly they can't live up to their word anymore.

are you really surprised they wont flesh out a raids story before its implemented? even going as far as misdirecting peoples expectations? I'm not.

[Immitis]

all blood elves who protested against them joining the horde or their methods were either mind controlled by the magisters or beaten into submission by the blood knights.

this happens within silvermoon city. when you first go into the entrance theres a blood knight beating up a protestor and over by the trade district by the banks and auction houses there are protestors who get mind controlled by magisters.

[CaptainV]

I believe Bwonsamdi actually taunts Vol'jin by saying that he will regret not letting himself succumb to death by the Kor'krons poison blade, and that the weight of his victory would bury him into the dust.

I believe that's foreshadowing that while Vol'jin might be Warchief, he may not necessarily be much better than Garrosh though I don't see him as a tyrant, I believe he may be too inactive enough to react to other members of the horde, like Sylvanas, who he probably doesn't consider a problem to him personally since all of her cruelty is Lordaeron's affair, not his.

I believe Vol'jin will retire the mantle of Warchief to Baine after a few years of reign realizing just how impossible the role is for anyone that lacks patience, something he doesn't really have as a quality.

He will try to lead, perform a few great actions that redeem the horde but ultimately fail to be a successful leader even if he is a good motivator.

I saw Baine being Warchief from the start and I believe over time that's exactly what will happen on account Baine is the only Horde leader now with the level headed patience and equal wisdom to be diplomatic to the Alliance while maintaining a strong grip over the Horde's internal politics. Vol'jins reaction is only a thread different from Garrosh given that he rebelled against a Warchief in the first place.

Granted, Garrosh was a psychopath, but Vol'jin's rebellion proves Vol'jin isn't patient enough to be a long term leader, and it will show over the next few expansions, he will decline from this point onwards into a despair from his lack of ability to maintain control over the Horde he's built.

As Bwonsamdi foretold, the weight of victory will crush Vol'jin into the dust.

[Deleted]

why would the alliance want to sabotage their former allies? why would the night elves want to invade quel'thalas when the burning legion is invading through the dark portal? it doesnt make any sense

Dunno, why did the Alliance turn em away?

[Duravian]

the blood elves were mind controlled into allying with the horde. whenever blood elves protest in silvermoon and ask why the blood elves are allying with the orcs instead of their former allies and friends in the alliance a magister comes, stuns them and then mind controls them and leaves, then all of a sudden the same blood elves who were protesting about joining the horde all of a sudden start shouting pro horde propaganda

I think I know what you're talking about, but we can't be certain every citizen was mind controlled into it. And in modern times I'm sure the Blood Elves are quite happy with their decision to join the Horde. What Garithos did to them was very hitler-esque, and nobody forgives hitler, so nobody will forgive Garithos.

[ImportantLoreInformation]

Dunno, why did the Alliance turn em away?

One man turned them away, not the entire Alliance.

[Immitis]

Dunno, why did the Alliance turn em away?

they didnt. its not like the scourge just skipped the alliance and went straight to quel'thalas. there was a zombie apocalypse going on. there was a lack of communication between forces, towns cities, entire governments were being destroyed in just a few weeks. it was literally chaos.

[Duravian]

go to silvermoon and watch the protestors. and the dwarf and night elves sabotaging the blood elves in the starting zone is just blizzards half arsed way of making the alliance out to be the bad guys against the blood elves.

why would the alliance want to sabotage their former allies? why would the night elves want to invade quel'thalas when the burning legion is invading through the dark portal? it doesnt make any sense

You've got a point there. I've never understood what provoked the Dwarf spy and the Night Elf invaders. In Warcraft 3 the Blood Elves and Night Elves greeted each other with open arms and fought side by side, then all of a sudden the Alliance starts poking into quel thalas and making trouble. That did seem like lazy story bending, so I'll give you that.

[Immitis]

What Garithos did to them was very hitler-esque, and nobody forgives hitler, so nobody will forgive Garithos.

yes but garithos wasnt the king. garithos was in charge of a small band of lordaeron refugees.