Undead Paladins ---> Would it work?

[Thage]

Use of Holy power burns them, but likely would not kill them. Moments like this where Gameplay logic should exceed Lore logic.

Thing is, it's pure agony for them to be healed with the Light, and the priesthood (who tap into but do not constantly channel the Light like paladins do) has a high suicide rate. Now imagine every second of every day of your life being constant, unending agony, with no escape from it except the sensations of feeling yourself rot.

Imagine spending eternity with that and your only way out is a long walk off a short cliff. Does that sound like someone who will be able to maintain the concentration necessary for a life of adventure, war, and combat? Be honest.

[tombstoner139]

I just wanna C&P and two Q&A questions you're referring to, so some people will actually, y'know, read them and not hide behind the "I can't find what you're talking about" wall as an excuse;



So yes, it's entirely possible for Forsaken to channel the light, and so is possible to become holy / discipline priests and paladins.

But the forsaken are one of the races corrupted by the old gods as part of the slow corruption "escape attempt" of their prison that is "azzeroth". The dark moon fare is an example of a corrupted holiday. that one day we will have to fight. Arthis is an other example and with the fall of deathwing and the destruction of the dragon aspects. the prison got once step closer to destruction. BTW the fall of death wing was a no win situation for Azzeroth.
technically yes they could wield the light. but it would take an epic event as part of an expansion pack to change the game and make them playable.
dont forget there is "something" buried in tristfall glades. no reason its not connected to a cavern system that runs under the forsaken grave yard animating the new fallen. so yea it could happen but i see them as part of the alliance with some tauran changing sides. the horde would gain dark iron dwarves and one more i cant think of at the moment.

[-Superman-]

Thing is, it's pure agony for them to be healed with the Light, and the priesthood (who tap into but do not constantly channel the Light like paladins do) has a high suicide rate. Now imagine every second of every day of your life being constant, unending agony, with no escape from it except the sensations of feeling yourself rot.

Imagine spending eternity with that and your only way out is a long walk off a short cliff. Does that sound like someone who will be able to maintain the concentration necessary for a life of adventure, war, and combat? Be honest.

Sounds a bit like Cancer and chemo. My sister when through that. Constant pain and agony every single day. Feeling sick to her stomch, eyes sensitive to light, and skin feeling like it had hot lava on it. Waking up each day wishing it would all end one way or another. Yet she fought it everyday for a higher cause. My neice. 7 months old and would be lost without her. It's funny the pain people put themselves through when there is something worth fighting for.

[Müdür]

From what I remember, undead priests are almost exclusively shadow in lore, but to be a priest and to understand its discipline, a priest must study both of its sides, meaning shadow and holy together. So lore-wise there shouldn't be much holy priests among undead, they are shadow priests. But being a paladin is not like this, all of the power comes from holy light, while not impossible, its very opposing to the undead nature.

[miffy23]

I'm sorry i'm just laughing my ass off here. The idea of Forsaken attempting to use Holy energy and being in constant pain while doing so just makes for such a ridiculous image. And then people trying to justify it by real life cancer. Wait what?

[Thage]

Sounds a bit like Cancer and chemo. My sister when through that. Constant pain and agony every single day. Feeling sick to her stomch, eyes sensitive to light, and skin feeling like it had hot lava on it. Waking up each day wishing it would all end one way or another. Yet she fought it everyday for a higher cause. My neice. 7 months old and would be lost without her. It's funny the pain people put themselves through when there is something worth fighting for.

Can you imagine her putting on full armor and a shield, and going out to fight in a literal war sunup to sundown every day? I'm not discounting what she accomplished, but civilian life today is markedly easier than life on Azeroth as an adventurer.

[Deleted]

From what I remember, undead priests are almost exclusively shadow in lore, but to be a priest and to understand its discipline, a priest must study both of its sides, meaning shadow and holy together. So lore-wise there shouldn't be much holy priests among undead, they are shadow priests. But being a paladin is not like this, all of the power comes from holy light, while not impossible, its very opposing to the undead nature.

There ya go. Nailed it.

Its not a hard concept to grasp people!

[Aleksej89]

I think ppl are confused a bit.

Lore wise - undead characters wielding Light do exist, and they have existed for a long time. A few mobs in icecrown citadel are seen using (un)Holy Light to heal allies and similar stuff.

Gameplay wise - i think it would look kind of crappy if every undead could become a paladin, since so far undead paladins are extremely rare...

[Hyperfly]

If Lore is the main issue, Blizzard can create the Lore for it. They can do whatever they want.

[Grubjuice]

When Forsaken wield the light, it causes them pain, but that's bad ass.
If a Paladin had such strong constitution to retain it's faith in undeath, and still choose to wield it under extreme pain, that's a truly dedicated Paladin.

Self mutilation kinda reminds me of some religions that imprint scars on their body with symbols after sinning, it fits perfectly with the Forsaken. That darker, more taboo part of religion/ light.

I completely concure,
it would make for excellent flavor

[Guyviroth]

And those Undead are not a part of the Forsaken, then. You'll notice that every new class added to the game was added because they JOINED the already-existing sect of playable classes, NOT left them. (Dwarf Shaman and Warlocks joined as the Council of Three Hammers was formed, adding Wildhammer and Dark Irons to the Dwarves. Night Elf Mages were added as the Highborne returned.)

Not to mention that the Argent Crusade is pretty heavily against the Forsaken... Not only would it take one hell of a special case for a Forsaken Paladin to be allowed in their ranks even if it DID happen, but they would instantly be considered ENEMIES of the Forsaken, not allies. It still does not make them playable.

Okay, I need to correct you on a few points;

-- The Crusade do not hate the Forsaken; they and the Ebon Blade are "keeping an eye" on them due to Sylvanas' actions. They already have undead within their ranks.
-- What's the difference if said Forsaken is a paladin or not? How would that make the Argent Crusade and the Forsaken enemies?
-- The opening quest line for new Forsaken players shows that they hold onto the doctrine of free will in high regard. Anyone who does not want to join the Forsaken are free to leave and do what they will.

But to your original point, it could be very well that a Forsaken becomes a paladin, then comes back to teach the rest of them that the Light still loves them. Or whatever. They could take the different route where they are inherently Paladins in the same way that taurens could become paladins and trolls could become druids.
They'd need only add an NPC to be their class trainer.

[-Superman-]

Can you imagine either of them putting on full armor and a shield, and going out to fight in a literal war sunup to sundown every day? I'm not discounting what they accomplished, but civilian life today is markedly easier than life on Azeroth as an adventurer.

I'm just saying I am not so easy to dismiss something that has even a remote chance of probability. In the end, it is all about gameplay and a player's enjoyment. How many more subscriptions would Blizz gain back knowing people who left might come back knowing they can race change their paladin from Belf to UD? Or the people like myself who will spend hundreds of $$ to race change all his toons to Gnomes.

I can appreciate wanting to dig in heels and support the lore, but at the end of the day, it is still just a game, and games should provide varying angles of enjoyment.

[schwank05]

Like I said in the forums.. SCREW LORE!!! MAKE IT HAPPEN BLIZZ!!!

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Save the RP and Lore for RP servers

This is exactly how I feel, Let any Race be any class already. Maybe leave things as they are for the RP servers, but other than that I want my pally to be undead.

[Thage]

I'm just saying I am not so easy to dismiss something that has even a remote chance of probability.

Dude, you compared being a cancer survivor, which while admirable, involves being taken care of by the world's most advanced medical system (a medical system that is so far above Azeroth's that it isn't even worth comparing), to being in constant, unending agony while being battered around in wars by things twice your size who in all likelihood know your concentration isn't for shit thanks to that blinding pain.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

It's possible, yes. Is it likely? Hell no.

Most Forsaken are extremely unlike how they were in life. They feel abandoned by both the Light and their former life's friends and families, most of whom turned on them. They're literally forsaken. Most are completely different than they were in life, as a result. Some are more selfish, some are more power hungry, some are just completely insane. This is a result of both the being in a state of undeath and the formerly mentioned forsaken.

Likewise, they're constantly rotting, unless they take care of themselves. Eventually, they'll completely degrade into a mindless undead, but that's neither here nor there for this discussion. Similarly, they're senses are almost completely dulled. They can't smell very well. They're nerves are all dead, they can't feel themselves rotting, so it's less of a hell than you'd think. It's still rather grim and sad though especially when you think of what happens when the Holy Light is involved.

When just regular Forsaken are hit with or healed by the Light, they feel like they're burning. It's complete agony for them. They may be healed, but it's a double edged sword. It's kinda like cauterizing a wound - it hurts like hell, but ends up being for your benefit. Just multiply the pain tenfold.

Most forsaken priests belong to the Church of Shadow. Similar to the Naaru's connection with the Light, their opposites and dead states (void gods, etc) have connections with the Shadow. It's a power, a tempting one. While the Light preaches faith and devotion and helping others, an unselfish cause, the Shadow is all about [I]power[/]. The Church still incorporates some of the Light's teaching, since fully understanding the Shadow (and likewise the Light) cannot be done without the other (if you've read the Star Wars Old Republic book, Revan, it's like Revan's understanding of the Light and Dark sides of the Force).

Any Priests that are Forsaken who are not Shadow tend to be looked at oddly in Forsaken society. They're heretics. They're weird. It's un unnatural to them.

Paladins are a completely different beast. Priests are merely conduits for the Light, albeit powerful ones. Paladins are fully infused by it. It's literally a part of them and their faith. Because of this, the Light has a kind of countering effect on undead beings. It sort of reverses some of the effects. Whereas normal Forsaken can't feel themselves, undead Paladins feel themselves rotting. Think a sort of rampant, unstoppable leprosy. It's hell. They smell themselves rotting, feel it, taste it. It's unbearable. It's a literal martyr act. And that's not counting the fact that the Light is always with them. As they're rotting, they're burning inside too.

For many of the undead paladins, it doesn't matter to them. They aren't sentient, they're not thinking. They're being controlled, they're mindless. So they don't feel it. Forsaken, however, are sentient beings. They're able to feel it all. If they chose to do such, they'd literally be giving themselves the worst kind of pain, all the time.

That's why there aren't many undead paladins. The Scarlet ones? They're mindless undead. They're being controlled (by Balnazzar, if memory serves). The boss from Naxx? He's a special case (faith so strong, yadda, yadda). He's not exactly being mind controlled so much as possessed. He still has his mind (he warns us to leave), but Arthas and KT have control of his body.

So yeah. That's why there aren't many undead paladins. It's a literal walking hell for them all the time, on a scale none of us can imagine. Yes, there are comparable things, cancer, leprosy, etc, but this is on a scale none of us can imagine. It's worse. And since most forsaken are selfish beings, not very many of them are willing to subject themselves to that kind of pain.

[-Superman-]

Dude, you compared being a cancer survivor, which while admirable, involves being taken care of by the world's most advanced medical system (a medical system that is so far above Azeroth's that it isn't even worth comparing), to being in constant, unending agony while being battered around in wars by things twice your size who in all likelihood know your concentration isn't for shit thanks to that blinding pain.

And you keep claiming the fact that people, when under incredible duress and pushed to extreme circumstances would fail. Look at people like John McClaine (Die Hard) or Tony Stark (Ironman 2), or even Spike in the last episode of Buffy. The best part of Fan Fiction is, the hero can do or be ANYTHING because he is the hero. I understand there is Lore, but how many times have mere mortals taken down the biggest and baddest enemies thrown at us. We killed them because Blizz made it possible. If it were real life, and Ragnaros appeared from a Volcano, people would shit a brick and RUN to another country. Yet now, as a single paladin, I have the power to wipe out all of Molten Core in 20 minutes. Let's not confuse LORE with REALISM.

[Jessicka]

There's only one undead paladin and that's Sir Zeliek.

What? There's loads of them in Icecrown.

[miffy23]

Undead Paladins

[Guyviroth]

--And when you 'keep an eye' on someone, do you willingly look at their subjects and say "Yep. This one's good." and let them in because they say "I wanna be a paladin!"? No, you WATCH THEM. You KEEP AN EYE ON THEM. You realize that their kind joining you is uncommon, and if a sudden surge of them comes flocking to you, you get suspicious.
--The Forsaken are against the Light. The Argent Crusade is against Undeath. The only thing keeping the Argent Crusade from storming Lordaeron is the fact that the Forsaken are part of the Horde, and the Horde have proven trustworthy. Lately, Sylvanas' actions have proven she is not exactly staying within political reason with the rest of the Horde. Therefore, the Argent Crusade is more inclined to refuse help from the Forsaken, and the Forsaken have never liked the involvement of the Argent Crusade.
--And if a Forsaken wakes up one day and says "You know what, all this Undeath stuff isn't for me." and goes to join the Argent Crusade, do you really think he's suddenly going to come back one day as a preecher of the Light? Let alone not get torn to shreds by those who aren't inclined to believe him?

Technically, Tauren are Nature Druids. They aren't actually Paladins; Again, game mechanics trump lore mechanics. Tauren Paladins are actually Druids who follow An'she. (The Sun) But for gameplay reasons, they needed them to be Paladins to balance the classes together. Troll Druids have easily been explainable, as we've had Trolls who would shapeshift all the time. It was cultural only that the Trolls chose to follow one Loa rather than many.

Forsaken are actually 100% AGAINST the Light and all it stands for. The entirety of their lifestyle is on forsaking the Light and it's teachings. Undead can technically be Paladins, yes, but they essentially turn their backs on the Forsaken lifestyle if they do. And in doing so, they are not a part of the Forsaken.

-- ... what are you smoking? Pass the blunt over here.
-- There are ALREADY Forsaken inside the Argent Crusade. How many times do I need to point this out before it sinks into your head?
-- I think a lot of things. I think of possibilities. And a possibility is that -- a possibility. He could very well come back as a preacher of the holy light, and some Forsaken may very well listen to him. You and Blizz need to stop treating races like they all think alike like a hive mind.

Never ONCE have the Sunwalkers been addressed as "Nature Druids". What they are, however, are warriors who follow An'she (explained in the Ultimate Visual Guide, http://wowpedia.org/Ultimate_Visual_Guide ). They technically are "paladins". Hence why they are labelled "paladins" in the same way blood knights are.

And if Forsaken are 100% against the light, then why haven't THEY attacked the Argent Crusade? And why do the Forsaken priest trainers tell new priests that they must balance the Light and Void, and tell them to go use healing spells and buff spells on injured guards as part of their quest?

Do me a favour, would you? Go read something before replying this time...

[EyelessCrow]

--And when you 'keep an eye' on someone, do you willingly look at their subjects and say "Yep. This one's good." and let them in because they say "I wanna be a paladin!"? No, you WATCH THEM. You KEEP AN EYE ON THEM. You realize that their kind joining you is uncommon, and if a sudden surge of them comes flocking to you, you get suspicious.
--The Forsaken are against the Light. The Argent Crusade is against Undeath. The only thing keeping the Argent Crusade from storming Lordaeron is the fact that the Forsaken are part of the Horde, and the Horde have proven trustworthy. Lately, Sylvanas' actions have proven she is not exactly staying within political reason with the rest of the Horde. Therefore, the Argent Crusade is more inclined to refuse help from the Forsaken, and the Forsaken have never liked the involvement of the Argent Crusade.
--And if a Forsaken wakes up one day and says "You know what, all this Undeath stuff isn't for me." and goes to join the Argent Crusade, do you really think he's suddenly going to come back one day as a preecher of the Light? Let alone not get torn to shreds by those who aren't inclined to believe him?

Technically, Tauren are Nature Druids. They aren't actually Paladins; Again, game mechanics trump lore mechanics. Tauren Paladins are actually Druids who follow An'she. (The Sun) But for gameplay reasons, they needed them to be Paladins to balance the classes together. Troll Druids have easily been explainable, as we've had Trolls who would shapeshift all the time. It was cultural only that the Trolls chose to follow one Loa rather than many.

Forsaken are actually 100% AGAINST the Light and all it stands for. The entirety of their lifestyle is on forsaking the Light and it's teachings. Undead can technically be Paladins, yes, but they essentially turn their backs on the Forsaken lifestyle if they do. And in doing so, they are not a part of the Forsaken.

Man you don't even know how tauren paladins work...they are not "nature druids"...which is redundant by the way.