End tier talent for Ele?

[Dave131]

So I was under the impression, a la Icy Veins, that Elemental Blast was the best choice as our final tier talent, but from looking at the top end guys like Leeds, it seems that Unleashed Fury is the way to go.

I havent had a chance to try it out in a real raid setting yet, only on the test dummy. On the test dummy I seem to be around 15k DPS higher but those are generally not very reliable numbers.

So, is there much of a gap in performance or is this just a preference thing?

[Lavalashlol]

It really depends on the fight single target UF is a head but for hard target swaps EB is better, and PE is the best just straight burst but I don't think the value of it is that high honestly.

[Dierdre]

UF: Sustained single target
PE: Burst single target, Norushen (ignores corruption)
EB: Target swapping, cleave fights.

[Deleted]

UF is only good on Jugger, malkorok and blackfuse, and even then it's right next to elemental blast in full mastery setting (which most of us are running with nowdays anyway.). Not a fan of UF personally, while looking good in sims, EB Is just more practical in actual raid setting .

[Txiv]

UF is only good on Jugger, malkorok and blackfuse, and even then it's right next to elemental blast in full mastery setting (which most of us are running with nowdays anyway.). Not a fan of UF personally, while looking good in sims, EB Is just more practical in actual raid setting .

I would disagree, I only use uf( when faced with choice of uf or eb) and find it to be superior. By taking it you narrow down all you cast spells that can not be used while moving to non surge lvb. I. Doing so you can freely move around to do boss mechanics or avoid shit much easier while maintaining near full Dps potential.

[Lavalashlol]

UF is good on more than that, please if you're coming in here try to stay away from absolutes, UF is strong on Paragons too, just have to work out your timing with it and not apply it if one is abouto die, also Garrosh in p2 and 3 and transitions it's pretty strong. EB is a great talent as well, but as our gear gets higher the Mastery Proc from EB becoomes less and less desireable, where UF will always scale with our gear. Also on a lot of heroic fights you're going to want stronger single target.

Immerseus would be a stronger fight for EB on heroic because of cleaving add where as on normal I would take UF for the phases when he is up, yes it's not the best on adds but if there is any kind of stacking the adds you're gonna use CL anyway, or throw out a LvB proc.
Protectors it depends on your strat if you're stacking and burning EB will be stronger but if you're single targeting UF is ahead.
Nourshen PE is the best because your elemental ignores the debuff.
Sha of Pride for heroic we just let the tanks kill the adds slowly so it's basically just a single target fight, EB would be strong for the Big add in the back but it dies so quick and you would have to save it for the big add which deminishes the quality of EB the longer you hold it.
Galakras p1 is lol CL derpderp, Galakras on p2 at least is maximizing your DPS before your healers get over run, just because of the length of the phase UF would be ahead of EB because you'll be under the effects of lust and you will UF before going into ascendance which is huge.
IJ pure single target, UF is ahead.
Dark Shamans on heroic is pure single target after the dogs go down, so UF ahead again.
Nazgrim EB is probably best here for add phases and hard swapping.
Malkorok on heroic especailly UF is stronger because there is quite a bit of movement, you can use EB and I always found a way to use it but sometimes I would lose my shield so it was a no-no so I switched toUF
Spoils EB is stronger for target swapping but for hard burst on the big adds I would use UF, ammount of damage going out on mantid side while the big adds are up isn't trivial so it needs to die quickly.
Thok PE or UF is probably best here because you're going to be hard pressed to get casts off at higher stacks like you will be pushing in p1 and then the heavy movement of p2 you will be hard pressed to use EB on cd again.
Siege crafter EB can be strong on the assembly line but so is UF, it will come down to personal preference there and the assembly line is the most important phase of that so maximizing your dps on there is importat, although haven't pulled him on heroic just going off of normal.

[Kazuchika]

UF is only good on Jugger, malkorok and blackfuse, and even then it's right next to elemental blast in full mastery setting (which most of us are running with nowdays anyway.). Not a fan of UF personally, while looking good in sims, EB Is just more practical in actual raid setting .

And Paragons and Garrosh and Sha..

[Deleted]

Sorry my bad, did not mention that I'm talking about heroic fights. And yes, you're right, UF is also good on Paragons.

Sha is pure EB, there is quite a bit of target switching (Small adds, reflection of people sent to other realm, and big add.)
Galarkas, p1 is cleavelol, p2 is "short" burst in which PE outperforms UF.
Dark shamans, wolf cleave at start and then once they reach 60% blob aoe constantly, once again either EB or PE are better.
Thok is either EB or PE. UF requires you to do constant LB/LvB, which wont happen with higher stacks. EB is rather easy to keep on CD.
Blackfuse is UF for both belt and platform imho.
Garrosh is either EB or PE, depending on what you want, add control or burst in P3, UF is weak on Garrosh imho.

Also keep in mind that UF get's weaker and weaker if you're required to do ANYTHING but single target dps. If you're dropping a totem (tide, tremor, root, whatever), self healing or whatever whatever, UF drops value on that. That's why I said UF is better in sims then it actually is in raid. Sure once everyone has everything on farm it won't matter, but it does during progress.

[Lavalashlol]

Sorry my bad, did not mention that I'm talking about heroic fights. And yes, you're right, UF is also good on Paragons.

Sha is pure EB, there is quite a bit of target switching (Small adds, reflection of people sent to other realm, and big add.)
Galarkas, p1 is cleavelol, p2 is "short" burst in which PE outperforms UF.
Dark shamans, wolf cleave at start and then once they reach 60% blob aoe constantly, once again either EB or PE are better.
Thok is either EB or PE. UF requires you to do constant LB/LvB, which wont happen with higher stacks. EB is rather easy to keep on CD.
Blackfuse is UF for both belt and platform imho.
Garrosh is either EB or PE, depending on what you want, add control or burst in P3, UF is weak on Garrosh imho.

Also keep in mind that UF get's weaker and weaker if you're required to do ANYTHING but single target dps. If you're dropping a totem (tide, tremor, root, whatever), self healing or whatever whatever, UF drops value on that. That's why I said UF is better in sims then it actually is in raid. Sure once everyone has everything on farm it won't matter, but it does during progress.

Sorry my bad, did not mention that I'm talking about heroic fights. And yes, you're right, UF is also good on Paragons.

Sha is pure EB, there is quite a bit of target switching (Small adds, reflection of people sent to other realm, and big add.)
Galarkas, p1 is cleavelol, p2 is "short" burst in which PE outperforms UF.
.

Sha is personal choice, like I said we handle small adds differently so only hard swaps are for big add and reflection, which you can't always have EB for unless you hold it like i've said which is a dps loss, and the add dies in a couple globals.
The Galakras phase is short but you also have to understand the benefit of UF, say you get x10LvB off during it and they are doing doign 550k w/o the buff with it they are doing 605k x10=550k damage gained from x1 UF assuming you use it x4 during the minute that your fire ele is up you will gain well over 1m damage which is around what imp fire ele does over regular fire ele in a mastery heavy build, and that 550k is without overloads OR Echos.

Once again for Garrosh I have the same arguements, so it's clear you have your opinions and your play style and that's great but it is inferior to UF at this stage.

[Deleted]

If adds are dying in couple of globals then you can still cast EB on boss and switch to adds while losing basically nothing, can't do the same with UF (Say your UF came of CD and add is spawning in 5 seconds, if you use it on boss it's a dps loss, if you hold it till add dies it's still a dps loss.)

You're assuming full procs during ascendance on galakras, which most of the time wont happen. Also, that UF is used instead of other spell while playing PE, which again drops its numbers. Oh and you've forgot 20% reduction earth ele provides while speced into PE, which actually matters during progress (More of a factor on Garrosh.)

Add control is rather important on HC Garrosh (In 10 man atleast), which UF sucks on, or if you're doing 25 man you get about the same burst out of PE while still retaining a lot better survival PE provides, not to mention how UF is completely wasted during entire p1, and every MC/add cast.

You're tunneling on a very minor dps increase UF provides over other 2 talents while ignoring upsides of those. And as I said eariler, if for whatever reason you need to stop dpsing the boss during UF (Such as self heal, or some sort of utility totem is needed or whatever other reason(You know, stuff that actually happens a lot during progress)), it falls behind.

In full mastery setting EB and UF are really close dps wise. You cast EB, the spell goes on cooldown and you're done with it.
UF is being "used" for 10 seconds, and if for whatever reason you can't keep it on cooldown and then cast lb/lvb those 10 seconds(Trough entire fight) it falls behind.

Just because something is slightly ahead in sim it doesn't make it automatically better in every raid situation.

Now that progress is over I'll prolly switch to UF on more and more fights since gear is getting better and better but I think UF was rather weak during actual progress.

[Dave131]

Wow, a lot of great information guys. Thanks!