The gear gap is larger than it has even been. Why all the complaints about LFR gear?

[Glorious Leader]

Debatable. The five man stuff from cata was pretty horrible and running tots with 20 coins is pretty fun.

Not really not when you take into account the relative reward of those dungeons as well. Not only were you getting what was basically lfr gear in those dungeons you were also buildling up currency to buy justice and valour gear at the same time. Now justice is basically eliminated, and valour is iuseless and the dungeon gear is basically awarded from lfr.

And your scenario is only when dungeons were hard and it assumes you couldn't complete them with friends or that these aren't easy as piss wotlk dungeons...

[solost]

My char is currently 564 equipped and progressing through 25m heroic SoO. I raid 3 hours a night, 4 nights a week.

I am not going to lie, I like being able to crush lesser geared people in meters but it's much more fun to crush a more geared person because he/she is terrible. This was possible up to Cata even in Dragon Soul. Currently this is almost not possible because heroic geared people do 100-200k MORE damage than someone in normal gear (raid finder and flex, don't even try lol, its like you just hit 90). The difference/gap is way too big, I agree.

Best advice to get around this is to keep searching for a casual guild that raids at a convenient time for you. Also stay FAR FAR away from servers like Illidan as not even gear/ilvl will get you into raids (its all achievement based). Illidan should be called Elitisdan. Its just players stroking there epeen even though half of them buy the achievement and carry on the "MUST LINK ACH" theme.

FYI, I am on Illidan.

[PrairieChicken]

Must be other cataclysm 5 man instance than the ones I remember with terribly itemized shit on normal firelands ilvl.

Nothing was terribly itemized except the trinkets (which sucked, but zero problem using them in DS)

[The Iron Fist]

What exactly do you disagree with? That the time/reward ratio has been significantly neutered in favour of giving players more to do?Or do you think this is a good thing? If the former then you're ignorant if the later then well you're welcome to your opinion I guess. I'm sure theirs a handful of casuals who roll around liking this but I'd call them tools and they are tools. The developers are aware that casual engagement is low and that's because guess what.. the game doesn't suit them any more for a number of reasons and none of them are particularly good ones.

It's quite simple. What they achieved and accomplished before in relative short order with relative ease and not with absurd rng or the commitment of raiding has been REMOVED FROM THE GAME and denied to them in favour of making more raid content and giving more for SOME players to do. Subsequently they say fuck you to this game especially when they have hundreds of f2p alternatives that offer the same bullshit grinds without a monthly cost and especially when the developers are unable or uninterested in doing anything innovative or fresh with the end game experience and are instead committed to full force to more or less making content that wasn't suited for them that they largely had no interest in in the past.

Seriously the guy I quoted before was bang the fuck on. The lfr gear now is basically the shit I would get in dungeons before except now it's a 1 hour que and 2 hours of raiding (assuming you don't wipe) plus 24 assholes giving me shit about x y or z. In addition to this the guaranteed reward I would get through currency accumulation has been gutted since wotlk. It's the most casual unfriendly horse shit ever and that STILL ISN"T ENOUGH for some people apparently. The casual experience hasn't been butchered enough. It's so fucking regressive. The developers have even said straight up they were going for a more vanilla flavour. It's insanity.

Amen!
On a separate note, have meh babehs Picard <.<

[inboundpaper]

The huge item level gap really made me hate LFR, If I have to sit through 4 hours of that shit, the gap shouldn't be ~20 item levels.

[Normie]

the gear is not the problem. The problem is that the gear is given for free, and they still get to see content

they don't deserve gear, they don't deserve to see end game content

I go into LFR and spend 1-2 hours killing 3-4 bosses.

I hear people talk about going into "super easy" Flex runs because they're retardedly overgeared for them and doing them with 0 wipes in 1/2 the time.

Why should people running Flex GET ANY GEAR AT ALL?!? IF YOU CAN JUST GO IN THERE AND NOT EVEN WIPE AND GET GEAR ... seriously ....

[draganid]

i think blizzard made the gear gap so stupidly large and stat scaling so large in mop so they could force in their ilvl squish. "see look guys we neeeeeeed it!!"

/tinfoil hat

[The Iron Fist]

The huge item level gap really made me hate LFR, If I have to sit through 4 hours of that shit, the gap shouldn't be ~20 item levels.

You're lucky you get Welfare un-epics at all. Be grateful Blizzard saw game design your way and not the way of the original fans pre-Cata.

[Barnabas]

What exactly do you disagree with? That the time/reward ratio has been significantly neutered in favour of giving players more to do?Or do you think this is a good thing? If the former then you're ignorant if the later then well you're welcome to your opinion I guess. I'm sure theirs a handful of casuals who roll around liking this but I'd call them tools and they are tools. The developers are aware that casual engagement is low and that's because guess what.. the game doesn't suit them any more for a number of reasons and none of them are particularly good ones.

It's quite simple. What they achieved and accomplished before in relative short order with relative ease and not with absurd rng or the commitment of raiding has been REMOVED FROM THE GAME and denied to them in favour of making more raid content and giving more for SOME players to do. Subsequently they say fuck you to this game especially when they have hundreds of f2p alternatives that offer the same bullshit grinds without a monthly cost and especially when the developers are unable or uninterested in doing anything innovative or fresh with the end game experience and are instead committed to full force to more or less making content that wasn't suited for them that they largely had no interest in in the past.

Seriously the guy I quoted before was bang the fuck on. The lfr gear now is basically the shit I would get in dungeons before except now it's a 1 hour que and 2 hours of raiding (assuming you don't wipe) plus 24 assholes giving me shit about x y or z. In addition to this the guaranteed reward I would get through currency accumulation has been gutted since wotlk. It's the most casual unfriendly horse shit ever and that STILL ISN"T ENOUGH for some people apparently. The casual experience hasn't been butchered enough. It's so fucking regressive. The developers have even said straight up they were going for a more vanilla flavour. It's insanity.

If they are then where are the side quests like shen'dralar, the class quests (except the one warlock on we got this expansion) and the quests that dead ended but at least told more about the story of the game?

[Volitar]

I think LFR should go, Flex fills the role of casual raiding while keeping the integrity of raiding. It's awesome-sauce casual raiding fun. Reminds me a lot of WOTLK normals <3.

[cFortyfive]

Nothing was terribly itemized except the trinkets (which sucked, but zero problem using them in DS)

So and what is the problem again with using normal tot gear in SoO ? Pretty sure at least one of my alts started in normal tot gear for this tier.

Not really not when you take into account the relative reward of those dungeons as well. Not only were you getting what was basically lfr gear in those dungeons you were also buildling up currency to buy justice and valour gear at the same time. Now justice is basically eliminated, and valour is iuseless and the dungeon gear is basically awarded from lfr.

And your scenario is only when dungeons were hard and it assumes you couldn't complete them with friends or that these aren't easy as piss wotlk dungeons...

Well by the time you scraped together enough valor points for three pieces of valor shit you now have an awesome legendary and probably a couple pieces of randomlootcrap.

[Glorious Leader]

If they are then where are the side quests like shen'dralar, the class quests (except the one warlock on we got this expansion) and the quests that dead ended but at least told more about the story of the game?

In so far as catch up is concerned (and all the things itinerant to that) theirs a tweet where the developers literally say

In MoP we tried for a slightly more vanilla feel where you finish 5.0 before going to 5.2. We provide more catch up than vanilla.

As for the side quests I think you can make a pretty good case that those are actually casual friendly. Not entirely so mind you but they represent content that isn't raids that is also a part of the lvling experience. The removal of them is more harm to the casual experience then good. They certainly needed some work to make them more suitable for casuals but they could represent much better casual content then raids in any form ever would.

- - - Updated - - -

Well by the time you scraped together enough valor points for three pieces of valor shit you now have an awesome legendary and probably a couple pieces of randomlootcrap.

Probably not. That legendary is a pain and given the RNG nature of some of the items you have to get from mobs it's a pretty long fucking shit chain. I could get 3 pieces of valour gear at a better rate I feel. Plus I mean you could literally buy tier pieces from valour for awhile in the game. Tier pieces are better than random loot crap.

In every way shape and form it's just been butchered man.

[PrairieChicken]

So and what is the problem again with using normal tot gear in SoO ?

Well by the time you scraped together enough valor points for three pieces of valor shit you now have an awesome legendary and probably a couple pieces of randomlootcrap.

Because

Normal ToT : 522
Normal SoO : 553
31 ilvl difference.

Compare it to DS which was 19 difference between 5 mans and normal DS loot

Plus the fact that gear scales exponentially and MoP had hideous ilvl inflation which means that +1 upgrade has greater power jump compared to cata days

[derotitis]

Pretty sure if the gear was blue, with the same item level, then the "lfr-hating" crowd would shut up. It's not about the actual gear, its about what color it is.

[inboundpaper]

You're lucky you get Welfare un-epics at all. Be grateful Blizzard saw game design your way and not the way of the original fans pre-Cata.

But I've been around since Vanilla.

[PrairieChicken]

Well by the time you scraped together enough valor points for three pieces of valor shit you now have an awesome legendary and probably a couple pieces of randomlootcrap.

Valor didn't have weapons. Plus you can choose from slots that you don't have, compared to nothing you can buy today

[The Iron Fist]

What I don't understand is catch-up gearing. The content nerfs itself as you get better gear. Not only that, it trivializes older content made within that expansion - far less replayability and quicker burnout. I remember going back to BWL for gear while in Naxx 40 and The Eye when Sunwell came out. Casual players did slightly older content and no one ever complained about it. I just dont get it. Things get so stale so fast in this game now.

[Barnabas]

In so far as catch up is concerned (and all the things itinerant to that) theirs a tweet where the developers literally say



As for the side quests I think you can make a pretty good case that those are actually casual friendly. Not entirely so mind you but they represent content that isn't raids that is also a part of the lvling experience. The removal of them is more harm to the casual experience then good. They certainly needed some work to make them more suitable for casuals but they could represent much better casual content then raids in any form ever would.

- - - Updated - - -



Probably not. That legendary is a pain and given the RNG nature of some of the items you have to get from mobs it's a pretty long fucking shit chain. I could get 3 pieces of valour gear at a better rate I feel.

Yeah even when I wanted raid i'd still look for cool things to do when I wasn't. Still puzzled why there isn't any quest for whispering woods yet or even the other unnamed lake in feralas?

[The Iron Fist]

But I've been around since Vanilla.

I want your armory as proof.

[Normie]

It's a huge problem. Heroic geared players now do something like 16 times the DPS of a newly dinged 90 in quest gear and still do roughly 8 times the DPS of players who have gathered a mix of Timeless and LFR gear.

It makes it impossible to create meaningful open world content. Anything meaningful for one group is either a pushover for the other or impossible for the other. It creates social conflict because of the huge differential on the DPS meters that is entirely based on the gear a character is wearing rather than skill.

Also it creates a world where nobody really cares about how nice a player is or how well-rounded or even how skillful at playing their character. All that matters is the level of gear a player has accumulated and how well they have learned the choreography of the various tightly scripted boss fights.

Yeah, I think this is the real problem with gearing right now. Not that LFR heroes are able to get their hands on "epics" because dear God those epics are pathetic compared to the good shit.

You now regularly run into players who can do 200k+(++) self-buffed and meanwhile, regardless of what people who forgot what it was like to ding 90 in blues and greens might think, newly dinged 90s are in the 15-40k range, and some poor fuckers like protadins are more like 7-10k.

I feel like heroic fights should be harder, but the harder should be mostly length and precision and mechanics, and not just plain boss health. Heroic gear should not be a tier higher. Maybe there shouldn't be heroic gear, except for heroic tier that has a special heroic set bonus.

I'd also like to see "raid gear" have stats or abilities on it that only apply in current raid instances.

The idea is, someone who never raids, or never does any organized raiding, should be able to accumulate gear that is just as good at doing stuff in the outside world and in old content as current raid gear. So, if Aragorn the heroic hunter does 300k killing mobs on the Timeless Isle on his own, Bobjob the rogue who has never set foot in an organized raid should be able to do 300k dps killing mobs on Timeless Isle. But, perhaps Bobjob's gear will only do 150k inside the current tier, or maybe Aragorn does 600k.