6.0 Mage Speculation & Paranoia

[Frost1129]

I am not in favor of eliminating the multidotting of the mages, perhaps the best solution would be to put all the "bombs" in one talent, so it would be optional and then we could choose whether we want to multidot or not...

Honestly, I would choose not multidotting every day over multidotting. The amount of frustration that multidotting brings is more than any other mechanic in the game. I'm not sure why, but the top of my screen I cannot click on, so when there are a million mobs and I have to fucking dot them I have to swing my camera in this odd fucking angle to dot the top bars, and it drives me insane every fucking time. So many wasted GCDs clicking on nothing.

Fuck multidotting, all hail the removal of mage bomb multi-dotting!

[Polarthief]

I just found out one thing in another thread, but as it is closed I'm going to mention it here. I am referring to this: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...59846640967681

Does that mean that [Nether Tempest], [Living Bomb] and [Frost Bomb] will go away? I had heard they were going to merge all in one talent ... but that tweet has left me puzzled...

As arcane mage that I am, I will miss so much that turbulent and crazy jumble of missiles of the nether dancing on the heads of my enemies...

That was awhile ago, and we had another source much much more recent about how Mage Bombs could be (read: probably will be) consolidated to a single talent on the tier.

[Kempix]

With blizz cutting down on instant cast spells will we see a change to the frost playstyle? Coz atm i only play my mage for frost and am not sure whether to keep it as my main if they change too many of the instants and stuff, i like the fast action frost gives

[Frost1129]

With blizz cutting down on instant cast spells will we see a change to the frost playstyle? Coz atm i only play my mage for frost and am not sure whether to keep it as my main if they change too many of the instants and stuff, i like the fast action frost gives

You mean like Ice Lance and BF>FFB? Those are core to Frost play, removing them means Frost has to be re-built from the ground up. I think your playstyle is relatively safe.

[Imnick]

Ice Lance and Brain Freeze are procs, not on-demand instant cast spells. They don't create much of a mobile damage problem.

[Deleted]

Actually if you think about it and puzzle throw it, it seem to me that after announcing the cutting down of the instant cast across the board for all classes and specs the thing about "cutting down" our ability to multidot will be brought back to this - cast time for the DoT in the manner of Frost bomb. This will diminish greatly the value of multidoting for mages and the talent will most likely be just part of our rotation for single target fights with medium to heavy movement, assuming long duration. This ofcourse ignore completely the fact that we don't know what will be the other choice of the same tier and we are strictly speaking for mage multidoting

@PoorAsImecka
Mages already have a hard hitting good cast. For Arcane that will be any cast at 4 stacks. For Fire that was, is and always will be Pyroblast. Same for Frost... the name is just Ice lance. Just they way the last two are implemented and build in the gamplay of the corresponding spec feels like they are not "casts".
If you think about it the spells you said in your post actualy need to meet certain conditions to be truly hard hitting. Same goes for the Mage's ones

[Imnick]

As none of the bomb spells deal damage on application there's no mobile DPS coming from that direction either and giving them a cast time solves no problems.

[Deleted]

No Imnick i guess you didn't understood what i was thinking. As they said in the recent blue posts most instant cast will become a castable spells with 1,5 second cast time, modified by haste. So imagine the following situation:
The boss, big bad add that has to die asap because its uninterupted/uncc'ble till its alive and 4 support add. Now imagine Nether tempest/Living Bomb/Frost bomb have 1,5 second cast time. So what will be your prio? Wasting 8 seconds time to multidot everything or waste 3 seconds to DoT the boss, DoT the big bad add and start nuking it as an old school mage x)
Also i don't see why they won't even increase the "penalty" with even putting a cooldown to the DoTs, thus further reducing our capability to multidot and making us to keep the dot on two maybe three targets at same time depending on the duration and proposed cooldown

[Frost1129]

No Imnick i guess you didn't understood what i was thinking. As they said in the recent blue posts most instant cast will become a castable spells with 1,5 second cast time, modified by haste. So imagine the following situation:
The boss, big bad add that has to die asap because its uninterupted/uncc'ble till its alive and 4 support add. Now imagine Nether tempest/Living Bomb/Frost bomb have 1,5 second cast time. So what will be your prio? Wasting 8 seconds time to multidot everything or waste 3 seconds to DoT the boss, DoT the big bad add and start nuking it as an old school mage x)
Also i don't see why they won't even increase the "penalty" with even putting a cooldown to the DoTs, thus further reducing our capability to multidot and making us to keep the dot on two maybe three targets at same time depending on the duration and proposed cooldown

If the bombs are strong giving them a cast time won't remove us from multidotting, it'll just make it more annoying. Might add a cap to how many targets we try to keep DoT'd. So it'd effect fights like Galakras, but not many others.

I'd prefer they just returned everything to how Living Bomb was originally - One target,

[Alias Node]

I wish they flat out remove the bombs. I picked a mage cause i like dealing damage in slower but harder hitting nukes, not tiny quick dots. If i wanted that play style i would of made a lock. Mages have gone years just fine without bombs.

[Deleted]

I wish they flat out remove the bombs. I picked a mage cause i like dealing damage in slower but harder hitting nukes, not tiny quick dots. If i wanted that play style i would of made a lock. Mages have gone years just fine without bombs.

Well they're kind of nukes if you ask me, ticking for 250k with trinkets up and usually around 150k every ~1,6 seconds. I don't want them removed or spec specific because they feel tiny and quick, but if you do feel so I disagree with you since they hit quite hard.

[Polarthief]

Alright, since we've gotten no news in awhile, how about some just-for-fun speculation on what we could get for our talents, minor talents, and/or new spells? (and it's not off topic! Look at the title!)


Level 15 Talent: Improved Blink
- Replaces Presence of Mind
- +X% (original was 70%) Movement Speed for 3s after using Blink
- Would probably have a 15s cooldown tied to it so you can't get the bonus twice with rapid displacement
- (Alternative) Reduces the cooldown of Blink by 5s (down to 10s) (maybe locks the stun/bond removal at 15s?)
- I could also see either version as a minor talent, though IMO it'd work perfectly on our first tier, which is all about mobility

Level 30 Talent: Fiery Fortitude
- Replaces Flameglow
- Reduces all damage taken by 10%
- Reduces all damage taken by an additional 2% for 2s every time you take damage, stacking up to 5 times (Bonus 10% for 2s if you're constantly hit)
- This would be more or less ideal for negating those smaller, quicker, hits, though the %s may be a little too high. It's hard to balance with TS and IB being so good

Level 45 Talents: From CC to External
- Completely revamped; Ring of Frost becomes baseline (or outright removed because they said less CC)
- Ring of Frost (or other name if RoF becomes baseline): Drops a ring of Frost on the ground that freezes the bones of all enemies who stand in it, causing them to deal X% less damage (weaker than FJ because this is AoE)
- Ice Ward: Places a protective, icy, ward on a friendly target, making them take X% less damage for Y seconds
- (Alternative for Ice Ward): Places a protective, icy, ward on a friendly target. Enemies who attack a warded target deal X% less damage for Y seconds (Hat tip to Eye for an Eye from FFXIV)
- Frostjaw: Freezes the target's jaw, breaking their concentration and making them deal X% less damage for Y seconds (stronger than RoF since this is single-target)

Level 60 Talent: Improved Ice Block
- Replaces Cold Snap
- Reduces the cooldown of Ice Block by 3m (down to 2m)
- Allows you to move while inside your Ice Block, but prohibits you from doing any other action
- Heals you for 3% of your health every second you're inside your Ice Block (small incentive to stay in if you really need the extra healing, or just a nice boost to soloers)

There's a few that I would love to mess with

[Imnick]

The blue post about instant cast spells was for instant cast heals, not all spells in the game.
They specifically even said in that post that even though Halo is a talent available to both Shadow and Holy/Disc, it will only have a cast time for Holy/Disc and remains instant for Shadow (but with no healing component).


The only instant cast spells they are interested in changing for DPS are ones they are changing in the name of reducing ability of ranged classes to deal damage on the move, which bombs do not particularly affect.

[Akraen]

Could you imagine frost mage with 1.5 sec cast ice lance. I'd give up forever.

[Deleted]

Well that speed is affected by haste and as far as im familiar frost mages try to reach 50% haste so that puts it on 1 second? Close to instant x)
But yeah i get ze point. I just don't see how other way they will remove multidoting away from the mage gameplay and to me it sound stupid to put a cap to the bomb, because with or without cap if you can multidot - you will and also mostlikely it will be the better choice for multitarget scenarios than whatever would be the other two choices.

Level 15 Talent: Improved Blink
- Replaces Presence of Mind
- +X% (original was 70%) Movement Speed for 3s after using Blink
- Would probably have a 15s cooldown tied to it so you can't get the bonus twice with rapid displacement
- (Alternative) Reduces the cooldown of Blink by 5s (down to 10s) (maybe locks the stun/bond removal at 15s?)
- I could also see either version as a minor talent, though IMO it'd work perfectly on our first tier, which is all about mobility

Oh i would just love to see that back coupled with the MoP blink changes and glyphs

Level 30 Talent: Fiery Fortitude
- Replaces Flameglow
- Reduces all damage taken by 10%
- Reduces all damage taken by an additional 2% for 2s every time you take damage, stacking up to 5 times (Bonus 10% for 2s if you're constantly hit)
- This would be more or less ideal for negating those smaller, quicker, hits, though the %s may be a little too high. It's hard to balance with TS and IB being so good

This if it wasn't so OP i would vote with my two hands for this. PvE wise every healer will love you for picking this. PvP wise ill just scream - " Warlocks and rouges.. COME AT ME!"

Level 45 Talents: From CC to External
- Completely revamped; Ring of Frost becomes baseline (or outright removed because they said less CC)
- Ring of Frost (or other name if RoF becomes baseline): Drops a ring of Frost on the ground that freezes the bones of all enemies who stand in it, causing them to deal X% less damage (weaker than FJ because this is AoE)
- Ice Ward: Places a protective, icy, ward on a friendly target, making them take X% less damage for Y seconds
- (Alternative for Ice Ward): Places a protective, icy, ward on a friendly target. Enemies who attack a warded target deal X% less damage for Y seconds (Hat tip to Eye for an Eye from FFXIV)
- Frostjaw: Freezes the target's jaw, breaking their concentration and making them deal X% less damage for Y seconds (stronger than RoF since this is single-target)

Im not fan to the frost tier (lvl45) i would like to actualy see some kind of arcane and fire alternatives, not only freeze this like that or deep freeze it the other way around and ohh ... wait... did i mention outdoor freezer?!? x)

Level 60 Talent: Improved Ice Block
- Replaces Cold Snap
- Reduces the cooldown of Ice Block by 3m (down to 2m)
- Allows you to move while inside your Ice Block, but prohibits you from doing any other action
- Heals you for 3% of your health every second you're inside your Ice Block (small incentive to stay in if you really need the extra healing, or just a nice boost to soloers)

Me likey

[Deleted]

Level 60 Talent: Improved Ice Block
- Replaces Cold Snap
- Reduces the cooldown of Ice Block by 3m (down to 2m)
- Allows you to move while inside your Ice Block, but prohibits you from doing any other action
- Heals you for 3% of your health every second you're inside your Ice Block (small incentive to stay in if you really need the extra healing, or just a nice boost to soloers)

Problem with removing Cold Snap is that it's a strong PvP ability, and occasionally double block inside of a 2 minute window is actually useful in PvE (Protectors and soaking fixates). That said; Cold Snap could still be removed and Ice Block could work like deterrence and have two charges baseline while still applying Hypothermia.

I do like the idea of restoring health inside of Ice Block, but the main problem with your suggestion here that it doesn't really compete with Cauterize or Greater Invis in any situation I can think of.

[Deleted]

Im not fan to the frost tier (lvl45) i would like to actualy see some kind of arcane and fire alternatives, not only freeze this like that or deep freeze it the other way around and ohh ... wait... did i mention outdoor freezer?!? x)

Was thinking about the "frost" tier i mentioned above and was thinking about the alternatives maybe something like

Frost jaw alternative for arcane - Arcane Shackle - 1,5 second cast Bound the target on place with arcane shackles for 8 seconds. The shackles are so strong that they interupt the target
Frost jaw alternative for fire - Brain melt - 1,5 cast cast Place a fiery halo on your target wich interupt the target and melt their brain making it unable to move for 8 seconds.


Ice ward alternative for arcane - Time capsule - 1,5 seconds cast. Place a time distortion bubble on friendly target. Next time the target get hit it pop the bubble distorting the time flow slowing all enemies movement in 10 yard radius by 100% for 5 seconds ( i imagine something like power word:barrier just in puple colors )
Ice ward alternative for fire - Implosion - 1,5 seconds cast. Place very sensitive charge of fire on friendly target. Next time the target is hit the charge trigger and cause blastwave so fierce that the affected targets in 10 yards radius are disoriented for 5 seconds. ( the good ol blastwave animation).

But for Ring of Frost i can seem to think of something cool for arcane and fire alternatives

[mrgreenthump]

Level 30 Talent: Fiery Fortitude
- Replaces Flameglow
- Reduces all damage taken by 10%
- Reduces all damage taken by an additional 2% for 2s every time you take damage, stacking up to 5 times (Bonus 10% for 2s if you're constantly hit)
- This would be more or less ideal for negating those smaller, quicker, hits, though the %s may be a little too high. It's hard to balance with TS and IB being so good

Just giving a raid design view on this thing: Even the 10% basic reduction is OP, if Mages have anything even near their current personal utility. Raiding is a numbers game, and you having a 10% or more damage taken less than the other casters.. it's just yeah, nullifies all the healing fights and problems.. essentially removing 1 aspect from the game. Also you would never ever die with this talent as long as healers were alive as the fights would be designed for you to receive 100% damage taken with CD's every now and again, not 80-90% damage all the time.

[Polarthief]

I do like the idea of restoring health inside of Ice Block, but the main problem with your suggestion here that it doesn't really compete with Cauterize or Greater Invis in any situation I can think of.

Not exactly sure how a 100% reduction for 10s with a potential healing effect doesn't match up with a 90% reduction for 1 hit + 3s, let alone a one-hit-cooldown that can still potentially kill you.

Also, Cold Snap (in its current iteration) is too good in PvP, hence why it constantly got nerfed despite it being never picked in PvE, with the exception of a few very select fights.


And to everyone saying Fiery Fortitude is OP, yes, I'm aware. The numbers aren't fine-tuned, obviously, but a 10% passive alone is just eh. ALSO YOU GUYS ARE SUPPOSED TO COME UP WITH THINGS TOO, NOT JUST POKE AT MINE :<

[Deleted]

Well, Blizzard this expac tried to make moves away from "Passive" mitigation which made Warlocks and other classes insanely broken compared to classes that didn't. I personally prefer this style and it rewards good play rather than encourages lazy play.