T100 Shaman

[rogas]

Dear god no more DPS CDs. If anything we need less button bloating than anything.

Really? I kinda find playing elemental extremly easy. Wouldn't mind if we got a few extra cd's to spice things up a bit.
Besides, none of the proposed lev100 talents will adress the issue elementals have on fights with adds that are spread out. On some fights we can't use chainlightning because the targets are too far spread out. We also can't multidot effective. So the only thing left for us to do in those situations is single target the boss. For example will the emperor 25 hc fight.

[Deleted]

Really? I kinda find playing elemental extremly easy. Wouldn't mind if we got a few extra cd's to spice things up a bit.
Besides, none of the proposed lev100 talents will adress the issue elementals have on fights with adds that are spread out. On some fights we can't use chainlightning because the targets are too far spread out. We also can't multidot effective. So the only thing left for us to do in those situations is single target the boss. For example will the emperor 25 hc fight.

Thats because Ele has a over-simplified rotation with LB as a filler spell. Your AOE consists of CLx10000000 yet very few are the ones that drop Magma or EQ.

As Enhance you have to pay attention to 3 attacks on diferent cooldowns and our AOE issues still persist since the t16 4pc did absolutely NOTHING to help our spread issue. If you saw the cookie cutter spec of ToT, we used EM+PE as they synced together if you glyphed FE (it was downright mandatory and OP, you could macro them together) but in this tier if it was still the superior build despite the glyph change we would be screwed because more than half our DPS would be decided on how well you could manage your CDs over the course of a 8m+ fight AND not dying to any boss mechanic.

That's just my beef with the class right now other than our AEs being skill-less proof or the complete oposite on certain situations - There is a huge cluster of buttons between all the totem cooldowns and the DPS cooldowns we have.

Regarding your issues with elemental on spread fights, if Reach of the Elements works the same way as the trash in Stonecore (it just might tbh) then your worries are over.

[Raiju]

Wat.

So multidotting is AoE ? I guess the word AREA doesn't matter.

Starfall and rain of fire are multidotting, ok.

You learn something new everyday around here...

[Recom]

Starfall and rain of fire are multidotting, ok.

You learn something new everyday around here...

I never commented on that, why do you keep bringing it up ?

I only talked about Lava Spew being AoE so please keep the discussion on this.

[Omanley]

I dont really see the point in arguing over semanthics here. Lava Spew hits a random target, and does aoe damage around that target.
That makes it both a random AND aoe skill, obviously.

Wether or not the random targeting will prove annoying or not, we cannot foresee yet, since it'll depend on the encounter, yes?

That said, an ability we have control over in terms of aiming at/targeting the center of a cluster of mobs will have less "room of being annoying" in certain situations.

Another point is that it combines aoe and a dps cooldown as an ability, and there'll be left to see how well that works. Lava Spew doesn't look super bursty, considering its duration, so having it on a cooldown imo doesn't make much sense. It would have to be really, really strong to be worth it having a cooldown.
Cant imagine that though, since Storm Armor cannot be to strong either.

A random Lightning Strike destroying 1/3 of a player's life? Unlikely. But it would have to so strong, looking at how the random target aspect counters reliability, just like proc chance rng countered WF in classic. I remember frustrating moments, when for minutes nothing would proc, and when something procs, nothing crits...

The more enemies, the crappier Storm Armor in pvp.

Blizz better introduces new ways of protecting totems, so that at least Storm Elemental (the go to talent in WoD pvp) wont be stomped right off the bat.

[Bisso]

Condensation Totem sounds silly. Overheal for more spell power for more over healing?

I think it refers to the groups overhealing. To me, this could be useful in an organised group, where let's say you have a boss that doesn't do too much damage, but then, it it hits the tank super hard, you could then have one of your shaman heal stop healing for the 5 seconds (or more if the other heals can keep up everyone and do some overheal) and once that big hit drop the tank to 10-20%, you pop a strong heal and bring him back to full. It's very situational as it would be completely useless in fight where damage is steady all the fight, but good with damage spikes.

[Recom]

I dont really see the point in arguing over semanthics here. Lava Spew hits a random target, and does aoe damage around that target.
That makes it both a random AND aoe skill, obviously.

Wether or not the random targeting will prove annoying or not, we cannot foresee yet, since it'll depend on the encounter, yes?

That said, an ability we have control over in terms of aiming at/targeting the center of a cluster of mobs will have less "room of being annoying" in certain situations.

Another point is that it combines aoe and a dps cooldown as an ability, and there'll be left to see how well that works. Lava Spew doesn't look super bursty, considering its duration, so having it on a cooldown imo doesn't make much sense. It would have to be really, really strong to be worth it having a cooldown.
Cant imagine that though, since Storm Armor cannot be to strong either.

A random Lightning Strike destroying 1/3 of a player's life? Unlikely. But it would have to so strong, looking at how the random target aspect counters reliability, just like proc chance rng countered WF in classic. I remember frustrating moments, when for minutes nothing would proc, and when something procs, nothing crits...

The more enemies, the crappier Storm Armor in pvp.

Blizz better introduces new ways of protecting totems, so that at least Storm Elemental (the go to talent in WoD pvp) wont be stomped right off the bat.

Thank you, finally we can have some sane discussion here. I don't see the 8y being a problem but it's too early to tell and it could be fixed by simply increase the radius.

I think the cooldown only means that it's not up 100% of the time (45sec instead of 1min) so you have to be a little carful about it.

[SenSayNyu]

Blizz better introduces new ways of protecting totems, so that at least Storm Elemental (the go to talent in WoD pvp) wont be stomped right off the bat.

Doubtfully, as Storm Elemental is an air totem, thus, you are forced to pick Totemic Persistence if you want to use Grounding, SLT or Capacitor. Again, I really dislike that our toolkit lacks synergy.

[Omanley]

Doubtfully, as Storm Elemental is an air totem, thus, you are forced to pick Totemic Persistence if you want to use Grounding, SLT or Capacitor. Again, I really dislike that our toolkit lacks synergy.

Yes, as always, my hope for their no.1 prio is doing something about totems.
Removing the restriction 1-totem-per-element would be the most fundamental change, and either homogenisating totem weaknesses individually, depending on the totem's effect and what their counterparts' layout is OR introducing several totem supporting abilities to give our totems an edge other classes do not have (an advantage to counter an disadvantage = balance).

That said, I still think SET to be the go-to choice. Even if you're forced into clipping it/holding off other utility/speccing into TP for it, I just dont see the point in Lava Spew, or Storm Armor. SET at least can provide a noticeable positive effect (even though as enh, with MSW, Feral Spirits, Healing Stream and Healing Tide, I dont see that much need for it).

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I think the cooldown only means that it's not up 100% of the time (45sec instead of 1min) so you have to be a little carful about it.

What I mean is: If it is a cooldown, it is expected to be bursty, because you have to set it up and because it wont be avaiable all the time.

However, with a 45sec cd and 15sec duration, it still has a 33% uptime ideally, so it cant be to strong/bursty either.

So it basically falls in that awkward "inbetween" where it is kinda part of both, but cannot benefit from either, really.
And while that kinda ability would've been "you'll be balanced around it, so everything's fine" if it would be baseline, it is really, really, awkward as a talent.

When I pick a talent (which is an option), I want to look at it and find it awesome, interesting, intruiging, granting mee a boon and what not.
But when I look at Lava Spew...I just dont know. The concept of lava spewing in different directions from my totems does sound kinda interesting, but only if you're new and dont know:
1) totems suck, because blizz neglects looking into developing them (basically unchanged since classic). They're a liability in pvp, and at best they're not annoying, but not fun to use in pve.
2) aoe is useless in pvp, and situational in pve only.
3) tieing a cooldown towards another ability rarely works out well, even less so if it is an easily counterable ability.

Blizz tries out weird ideas with shamans often. The sad thing is: they are rarely supported properly to work correctly after implementation, which is why I only hope for the most simple of abilities. Imagine if we would've simply gotten a hammer of justice stun, instead of CPT. How awesome it would've been, how simple the implementation. No shaman would've complained. Instead they got through all that work, only to make something so bad...Same with the old cata aoe, the downsides of current enh aoe (tied to LL = bad), HEX... etc.

Blizz implements awesome abilities all the time, streamlines them so that they're farely well balance over all classes...and then implements something entirely different for shaman

[Recom]

I kinda agree with you, especially when you say "When I pick a talent (which is an option), I want to look at it and find it awesome, interesting, intruiging, granting mee a boon and what not" and I said in a previous post that I don't really like the fact that the Lv100 talent don't compete with each other. In the end if you need aoe you pick lava spew and that's it. This design works since you "always" (maybe not in pvp but that's an other discussion) have something to do the job but it makes it less interesting. Ideally having more competition in a single tier of talents would be a good thing but it would take a lot of time to balance so...

[Kalcheus]

If everyone picks Totemic Persistence to go with Storm Elemental, TP will go baseline pretty fast. I doubt they'll make SE baseline tho.

[Hctaz]

Lol unless they remove the glyph, that chain heal talent could be pretty hilarious. Imagine having a chain heal bounce between literally every person.

[Emophia]

As enhance all those seem horrible, but they'll all be replaced anyways so im not fussed yet.

[Embermoon]

As enhance all those seem horrible, but they'll all be replaced anyways so im not fussed yet.

Not sure why you'd say that. To me, they all look good, for enhancement, and the storm elemental looks great. Am I missing something?

[Emophia]

Not sure why you'd say that. To me, they all look good, for enhancement, and the storm elemental looks great. Am I missing something?

I don't like abilities with CDs longer than 3 mins and I don't think enhc needs more CDs, I especially hate 5min CD abilities (im loving AoC this tier).

I also don't like searing totem and I especially don't like uncontrollable random AOE damage.

[Wagar]

I'm all for these talents. Pretty decent early concepts with I feel a lot of potential to make Shamans stay fun and competitive. Will be following eagerly.

[Embermoon]

I don't like abilities with CDs longer than 3 mins and I don't think enhc needs more CDs, I especially hate 5min CD abilities (im loving AoC this tier).

I also don't like searing totem and I especially don't like uncontrollable random AOE damage.

I get what you're saying re: searing and the lava spew talent. I think searing needs to just go away, along with a few other abilities.

Even so, I see these as still being good for enhancement (PvE, anyways). There's the aoe fire and forget, the storm elemental (I've wanted one for YEARS) doing single-target and healing, and then the passive single-target. If anything, I'd say they're more uninspired, than they are non-useful.

Agreed with you, on 5-min CDs. SET is the one exception I'd make, for new abilities though.

[Xanda]

Rainstorm for enha is probably one of the most boring and uninsipired talent i have ever seen, followed only by EotE. lava spew and Storm Elemental have a lot of potential but rainstorm...gh

I hope it'll have some kind of animation.

[Swiftninja]

Yea passive lightning damage is very boring. Storm Elemental is nice if you want another cd. Lava spew however, I wish the ability emitted from the shaman instead like a firestorm.
To replace Lava Spew:

For Enh:
Firestorm - 1 min cd - AOE Fire dmg (melee range) - lasts 10 sec - Flame shock ticks
bonus damage.
For Ele:
Eruption - 2 sec cast - AOE fire damage every couple sec for 15 sec- 2 min cd - can be destroyed but high hp ( Like Rag from WC3 or adds before Baleroc)

[Deleted]

Lol unless they remove the glyph, that chain heal talent could be pretty hilarious. Imagine having a chain heal bounce between literally every person.

That's precisely why i am predicting removal/rework of Riptide Glyph.