Garrisons, did they miss the mark.

[Callous1970]

You can't even choose what architecture you want to use for buildings, everybody will end up with the exact same looking fully upgraded garisson with maybe one or two buildings changing depending on professions. It will all look the same for everybody. This is hardly player housing.

What I got out of Blizzcon is that there aren't enough building plots for you to get all the stuff, so that each player's garrison will have the buildins they want/need, and they'll be placed as each player wants them, so I think there will be quite a bit of variety between player's garrisons.

[Spl4sh3r]

I hope they don't make Garrison a guild thing. I know most MMO's focus on guilds since there are things you can't do on your own. However that doesn't mean they have to add more things that you can't do on your own. Garrison is a good addition to what you as a player can do on your own time. Especially seeing how customizable the Garrison is.

[SodiumChloride]

You can only decide where the buildings themselves go and which buildings they are, they didn't say anything about moveable furniture and if they were going to implement it then that would be a big feature to announce at Blizzcon, so no.
The fact that they added this means it's something you can safely start hoping for next expansion though if Garrisons are popular, little steps!

"Little steps"? If this was vanilla and the next expansion BC, ok fine "little steps". But it has been 9 YEARS! 9 YEARS ... and they can't replicate the functionality of a 14 year old Maxis game?

I getting really sick of Blizzard "funnelling" everything into raiding, that if it's not raiding related it is considered unimportant. It is so bad to have a feature stand alone, on it's own merits?

[Deleted]

These two points are news to me, as far as I was aware the only two design "styles" were Alliance and Horde, and the talent specs merely changed the function of the abilities granted to you by the building rather than its look.
I hope you are right though!

That's what I thought as well, and was the biggest gripe I had about the whole thing. Only 2 types of buildings. If there really are more styles (racial ones I hope) that would be great I'm Hordie, but orc architecture never amazed me. I'd prefer Forsaken or Goblin, or even Troll tbh.
Also there would be little point in inviting friends, my garrison would look pretty similar to theirs.

[kiekaboe]

I have been thinking about this ever since I saw the panel on it, and the more I think about it the more it becomes clear to me that Garrisons MUST have started out life as a guild feature, ever since vanilla we have been calling out for player housing, but this is not player housing, this is a whole town, something a guild might occupy, not a single player.

I think and will believe unless proven otherwise that Blizzard initially designed this for guilds, and then for what ever reason decided to make it single player, and I think that was a massive mistake.

Ever since the rumours went around that the portal in stormwind was going to unlock and take you to a set of streets and small gardens for player housing the basic idea of having small player housing in the cities always made sense to me, so when garrisons were announced I have to say it took me by surprise.

am I alone in this ?

OR..

Would it have been far better if they used the same technology of phasing to place small "Single Player" housing in the main cities, for example all those locked doors in Iron Forge, or Stormwind, or the possability for them to expand something like Orgrimar or Silvermoon, there are tons of places where houses are already in place but they are locked or static un-enterable.

Give players Housing, with a few function things, and give the garrisons to guilds.

Finally , I think its a total waste the way blizzard seem intent on creating cool content and then locking it all into a single expansion, guild leveling for example had its day and they have no intention of updating it, garrisons will be the same, their now and seemingly forever going to be locked on Draenor, but I would be willing to bet that the next expansion in 2 years will make all of that content, and our garrisons VOID!, just like it does with every other old and out of date expansion.

With player housing in cities, they would remain relevant beyond any expansion because their in the city and not out in some wild zone, having garrisons for guilds and those being out in the zones makes way more sense.

For tre love of god it has just been announced wait and try it.

[Callous1970]

I hope they don't make Garrison a guild thing. I know most MMO's focus on guilds since there are things you can't do on your own. However that doesn't mean they have to add more things that you can't do on your own. Garrison is a good addition to what you as a player can do on your own time. Especially seeing how customizable the Garrison is.

You can invite guildmates over, and you can trade building supplies if you have a surplus that a guildie needs. So in a way guilds can work together on these. I know I fully intend to mass produce whatever we'll need just so I can drag my guildies into my garrison and hook them up with whatever they may need for theirs.

[Herecius]

"Little steps"? If this was vanilla and the next expansion BC, ok fine "little steps". But it has been 9 YEARS! 9 YEARS ... and they can't replicate the functionality of a 14 year old Maxis game?

I getting really sick of Blizzard "funnelling" everything into raiding, that if it's not raiding related it is considered unimportant. It is so bad to have a feature stand alone, on it's own merits?

The amount of resources required to 'rebuild' a 14 year old Maxis game purely inside of WoW would have made this expansion Warlords of the Sims, not Warlords of Draenor, since there'd be no time to develop anything else.

And in any case, straight up replicating the Sims isn't the Garrison feature's intent anyways. Support it, enjoy what we've got, keep pushing feedback to improve it, and Blizzard will undoubtedly expand upon the feature in the future.

Not to mention, the Garrison isn't really just existing to funnel into raiding, as far as I can see... its purpose is to build a base for your character, an actual fortress all of their own. Some of the rewards entailed in having said fortress may help with raiding, sure, but as I see it, the big lure of a garrison for myself is the concept of building a base and accruing followers. It's exciting! To actually get followers and put together my own little army.

[Xayl1]

That's what I thought as well, and was the biggest gripe I had about the whole thing. Only 2 types of buildings. If there really are more styles (racial ones I hope) that would be great I'm Hordie, but orc architecture never amazed me. I'd prefer Forsaken or Goblin, or even Troll tbh.
Also there would be little point in inviting friends, my garrison would look pretty similar to theirs.

I think that would be a nifty way to do things the different specs give it different racial flavors.

[Aqua]

"Little steps"? If this was vanilla and the next expansion BC, ok fine "little steps". But it has been 9 YEARS! 9 YEARS ... and they can't replicate the functionality of a 14 year old Maxis game?

I getting really sick of Blizzard "funnelling" everything into raiding, that if it's not raiding related it is considered unimportant. It is so bad to have a feature stand alone, on it's own merits?

Having an MMO that focuses on this many facets to the degree WoW does is astounding. I think you need to step back and actually look at how much they put into everything. And yes raiding has evolved the most out of all the features, they can't help but funnel attention into a feature many tote as the crowning achievement of their game and have dragged many a hapless individual into WoW for the sole reason of it.

WoW has the systems of SEVERAL games. Not just one, and is consistently evolving at a rate that wasn't even fathomable.

Also OP, you are the most premature whiner I've seen on MMO champion. Ever. Grats. Quite a feat, no sarcasm.

[Imnick]

"Little steps"? If this was vanilla and the next expansion BC, ok fine "little steps". But it has been 9 YEARS! 9 YEARS ... and they can't replicate the functionality of a 14 year old Maxis game?

I getting really sick of Blizzard "funnelling" everything into raiding, that if it's not raiding related it is considered unimportant. It is so bad to have a feature stand alone, on it's own merits?

They are doing it iteratively because they need to see what works and is enjoyable in order to make the best finished product, not because they don't have enough time. I thought that was kind of obvious.
They could stick a fully fledged personal housing thing in now probably but it'd be much more shit than if they did Garrisons instead and gradually built up how player instances work in the game.

Also "replicate the function of a 14 year old Maxis game"... you do know that's not how programming works right? Do you want me to list every way the Sims is different to WoW? They need to build their own system tailored to how the game works and how the players end up using it.

Garrisons aren't all about funneling into raiding. You can use profession gear anywhere in the world, pet battles have literally nothing to do with raiding at all, and you are granted abilities by your garrison that you can use while soloing and not at all while raiding. I'm sure there will be plenty for everyone and you can tailor your setup to suit how you play, that is why there is more than one kind of building!
This is a feature included on its own merits, to give players something to do outside of raiding. I am not sure why you think otherwise.

I think that would be a nifty way to do things the different specs give it different racial flavors.

I feel like the specs are just going to add different doodads to the interior and exterior of the buildings rather than change them into Night Elf or Goblin houses... we'll see though.

[Lynneiah]

That's what I thought as well, and was the biggest gripe I had about the whole thing. Only 2 types of buildings. If there really are more styles (racial ones I hope) that would be great I'm Hordie, but orc architecture never amazed me. I'd prefer Forsaken or Goblin, or even Troll tbh.
Also there would be little point in inviting friends, my garrison would look pretty similar to theirs.

If I can build a garrison entirely in Gilnean architectural style, I'll be a happy camper.
That said, no race-specific styles has neither been confirmed or denied. All that means is that the Alliance won't be able to use any Horde architecture or vice versa. Which makes sense.

[nekobaka]

I am glad Blizzard came out with garrisons rather than than player housing. I am not an RPer and that sense of hanging out in WoW outside of doing grinds has at least in my experience taken a large drop from the early days of Classic. I dont recall all the details but it might be nice if there are methods to show off their garrisons to friends and maybe even have their friends help out in some way.

[Xayl1]

I feel like the specs are just going to add different doodads to the interior and exterior of the buildings rather than change them into Night Elf or Goblin houses... we'll see though.

Likley I figured if anything it would be more like take the spec and some furniture and stuff would change inside to reflect the generlal aesthetic of a race as opposed to any real structural changes. that's a dream scenario though heh.

[Rumred]

Could it of started off as a guild deal? Maybe but i would suspect they truely lets give this a run this xpac and see how it goes then go from there. As for player housing in a city? Nah not a fan at all......infact i really dont like it in skyrim and just use it as a glorified bank which in WoW i already have. The Garrison feels more like a base of operations for the war you are waging turns into a small town with NPCS going about their day. A Garrison has things to do NPCS to send on quest ect which to me makes it feel more alive then me standing in a house in org or stormwind.

[SodiumChloride]

The amount of resources required to 'rebuild' a 14 year old Maxis game purely inside of WoW would have made this expansion Warlords of the Sims, not Warlords of Draenor, since there'd be no time to develop anything else.

Really. Just the furnishing system. I'm not asking for The Sims, just that one aspect.

Hell, they probably don't have to work as hard as the Maxis guys. It's been 14 years, computers have come a heck of a long way. The Sims had a min requirement of a 233MHz processor (this is the Pentium 2 era), 32 MB of RAM and a 2MB video card.

- - - Updated - - -

Not to mention, the Garrison isn't really just existing to funnel into raiding, as far as I can see... its purpose is to build a base for your character, an actual fortress all of their own. Some of the rewards entailed in having said fortress may help with raiding, sure, but as I see it, the big lure of a garrison for myself is the concept of building a base and accruing followers. It's exciting! To actually get followers and put together my own little army.

I never asked for an army ... nor a "military base". All I wanted was a place my avatar could call "home".

- - - Updated - - -

Having an MMO that focuses on this many facets to the degree WoW does is astounding.

By "many" you mean 2, i.e. Raiding and PVP in a box.

[Dead_MAX]

As an announcement? No...Gamewise? They are not out yet.

[SodiumChloride]

Garrisons aren't all about funneling into raiding. You can use profession gear anywhere in the world, pet battles have literally nothing to do with raiding at all, and you are granted abilities by your garrison that you can use while soloing and not at all while raiding. I'm sure there will be plenty for everyone and you can tailor your setup to suit how you play, that is why there is more than one kind of building!
This is a feature included on its own merits, to give players something to do outside of raiding. I am not sure why you think otherwise.

Pet battles are the ONLY thing in WoW that has nothing to do with raiding. Everything else is just a raiding "aid".

They sucked all the life out of dungeons and professions, streamline them to their current sterile state, because in their heads those are only important in the ways their help people raid.

[Imnick]

Really. Just the furnishing system. I'm not asking for The Sims, just that one aspect.

Hell, they probably don't have to work as hard as the Maxis guys. It's been 14 years, computers have come a heck of a long way. The Sims had a min requirement of a 233MHz processor (this is the Pentium 2 era), 32 MB of RAM and a 2MB video card.

Again you misunderstand, it is nothing to do with the hardware specs.
Maxis's sims implementation is nothing like the implementation they would have to make in their own game, and whether doing that is worth dedicating all of their resources is questionable. That is why they are building up the feature gradually, adding features incrementally in order not only to improve their technology but also to see what players do and do not like about it, and how they use it, so that they can deliver the ideal end product.
You seem to know nothing about development cycles.

Pet battles are the ONLY thing in WoW that has nothing to do with raiding. Everything else is just a raiding "aid".

They sucked all the life out of dungeons and professions, streamline them to their current sterile state, because in their heads those are only important in the ways their help people raid.

This is just an outright lie.
What about, I don't know, PvP? The Timeless Isle? Scenarios? Troves of the Thunder King? The farm? Daily quests? Professions? The auction house economy? BMAH?

Yeah you can use the gear rewards in them for raiding but you also use the gear rewards from them for soloing. You cannot boil everything that rewards gear down to "exclusively for raiders" because gear is something you use for literally everything. Everything in the game rewards gear, and that does not mean the journey in itself is meaningless. Obtaining it is an excercise in itself. That you can do solo, that you can use to do more things solo. That's what levelling is!
People who don't raid have fucking loads of things to do and they're adding even more in the next expansion. Don't try and speak this bullshit.

[Herecius]

Really. Just the furnishing system. I'm not asking for The Sims, just that one aspect.

Hell, they probably don't have to work as hard as the Maxis guys. It's been 14 years, computers have come a heck of a long way. The Sims had a min requirement of a 233MHz processor (this is the Pentium 2 era), 32 MB of RAM and a 2MB video card.

And it required years to develop. It would require years to develop today, too.
Contrary to popular belief, screaming at a computer until it spits out cool features isn't actually how game development works.

But in any case, the Garrison feature isn't even about building a home... it's about establishing a forward base of our own in this new world. It ties into professions, into gear, and into the idea of amassing followers more than it does into the idea of playing house, but it will still be customizable to a pretty significant degree, what with choosing the location, choosing your own structures, their designs, where they're placed, getting trophies, filling your stable/pet stable, amassing followers and kitting them out, too, and so on and so forth. It's a feature with a LOT of room for growth.

[SodiumChloride]

Again you misunderstand, it is nothing to do with the hardware specs.
Maxis's sims implementation is nothing like the implementation they would have to make in their own game, and whether doing that is worth dedicating all of their resources is questionable. That is why they are building up the feature gradually, adding features incrementally in order not only to improve their technology but also to see what players do and do not like about it, and how they use it, so that they can deliver the ideal end product.

The Maxis guys I sure spend a lot of programmer time optimising the game - like most other game companies.

Blizzard doesn't have to work that hard as they can skip all the back breaking optimisation hacks. We have 4 GB of RAM compared to the miserable 32MB 14 years ago, our processor are like 10x+ faster, videos cares have like what 1GB now or at the very least 128MB that's 64x of the video cards of 1999.

You seem to know nothing about development cycles.

Oh I do know how software development works. Setting up a furnishing system takes resources yes, but I'm sure it's a lot simpler now without the severe resource constraints of yesteryear.