Assassination is still awesome even if its not popular anymore

[DakonBlackblade]

So after Blizz nerfed assas and bufed sub all of a suden every rogue decided the best specs were combat and sub and kinda abandoned assas. I recently got my second heroic dagger and I decided I was gona do heroic Thok as assas cause it made sense after all the fight is heavilly movement based and assas poisons tick for way more than the other 2 specs, I wasnt realy expecting much gain but I was kinda amazed by my DPS.

I then decided to do heroic Paragons as assas as well, since thats also a heavilly movement based fight. It was my guilds first kill of H Paragons this week and my DPS was again insane (I had the bloodletter buf so its not a situation of gainning extra DPS from bufs). We proceeded to clear the place on normal and I went assas on Garrosh just to see how itd go on a non moving single target fight and again my DPS was superb, it actualy topped my sub DPS from the week before (granted that if I had tried sub again now that I have 2 daggers as oposed to 1 dagger and 1 slow weap I believe Id have done more damage than I did in assas).

Now this is not a player situation cause Im ranked on both Garrosh and heroic Thok on all 3 specs on the top 30, its just that assassination is actualy doing way more damage than ppl seen to think it is, I was actualy dealling more damage tham I simulate and its the only spec where this happens.

I think this is one of these cases were ppl just went with the flow and since everyone is going combat and sub nowadays they just abandoned assas.

[Deleted]

Assassination is still very close to, if not more optimal than the other specs on several bosses this tier. The examples you give are more to do with uptimes, heavy movement and large execute ranges (particularly Garrosh) but yes, it's decent.

In terms of convenience, not having to reforge / gem on a boss-to-boss basis to do near to maximum damage is still kind of nice.

[Spiridon]

assassintation not bad at all, pretty easy compared to other specs (i dont say it bad)
Imo it feels more comfortable and "logical" with CDs, debuffs, ability costs, etc. Overall it looks like most "finished" and polished spec.

Combat just more preferable due heavy cleave fights, its obviously better. But rotations, energy overcap problem with high level haste/Heroism feels like design miscount. Yes it must be fast-paced but not to the insane fingerbreaking level. Other flow - must have one trinket, to be on par at single target with other specs...yes its very strong for all specs, but its just must-have for combat, its not good deisgn.

Sub most skill-based spec - complex rotation, cd managment, position requiered etc. You just dont have time to look whats going at fight literally, or you screwed your rotations. Of course with pratice some troubles go away, but in general not comfort for majority of encounters.

One thing blizz done right - most "hard" specs must pull more in theory when executed right, in practice you will usually do more damage in spec you know better.

[shadowboy]

Assassination's been nerfed? News to me. Here I thought it was buffed in 5.4.

[Squirl]

Assassination's been nerfed? News to me. Here I thought it was buffed in 5.4.

They nerfed Assassin's Resolve in a hotfix awhile ago. I believe the 5.4 Mut/Disp buffs stuck.

[shadowboy]

They nerfed Assassin's Resolve in a hotfix awhile ago. I believe the 5.4 Mut/Disp buffs stuck.

They never nerfed assassin's resolve. It was 20% in 5.4, it's 20% in 5.4. They buffed it to 25% on the PTR, then reverted it before 5.4 went live.

Assassin's resolve unchanged + mut/dispatch buffs = assassination was buffed.

[Pathal]

Actually it was 25% in 5.3. They buffed it to 30% during PTR, then did the weapon damage buff, then dropped the 5% increase. Then a hotfix went out and nerfed it another 5% post patch day. It's back to 20% now, like it was at the start of the expansion.

People complained about it, but I'm glad to see the net impact is a greater emphasis on active damage. No matter how marginal.

[DakonBlackblade]

They never nerfed assassin's resolve. It was 20% in 5.4, it's 20% in 5.4. They buffed it to 25% on the PTR, then reverted it before 5.4 went live.

Assassin's resolve unchanged + mut/dispatch buffs = assassination was buffed.

It actualy went live with the buf, then they reverted it on the second or third week of SoOg, and they bufed sub wich made everyone insta jump ship cause sub was simulating uber high, wich is exactly my point with this thread. Assas is simulating less than it actualy pulls and sub only pulls as much as it simulates if the boss dont move 1 inch the whole fight, either this or I play assas like a pro wich I find hard to believe, I know Im not bad with any of the 3 specs I rank very well with all 3, but Im pretty sure Im no kind of uber player either.

[ro9ue]

I've been assassination since vanilla and will never change. Just fucking love that spec. I ran sub for a little back when shadowstep came along, but it didn't take long to come back to assassin.

[DakonBlackblade]

I've been assassination since vanilla and will never change. Just fucking love that spec. I ran sub for a little back when shadowstep came along, but it didn't take long to come back to assassin.

Ppl say its easy an stuf, in reality its a spec with a lot of room for you to realy master it, easy to learn hard ot master wich is how I think every spec should be. Not to mention its a lot more streamlined than other rogue specs and has an execute wich is super fun.

[Verain]

Actually it was 25% in 5.3. They buffed it to 30% during PTR, then did the weapon damage buff, then dropped the 5% increase. Then a hotfix went out and nerfed it another 5% post patch day. It's back to 20% now, like it was at the start of the expansion.

This exactly.



Mutilate is still good for some things, but I really feel the spec needs to be tuned lower than the other rogue specs.

[khatsoo]

I would spec back to assasination in a heartbeat if daggers wanted to drop.
Only weapons dropped so far in SoO are an heroic-warforged fist and a sword.
This damned fate wants me to play combat for progress (aka need moar dps).

[intrinsc]

The assassination DP because of mastery does really well on disconnect fights such as early in Paragons, Siegecrafter, and others.

[Demeia]

This exactly.



Mutilate is still good for some things, but I really feel the spec needs to be tuned lower than the other rogue specs.

I think they should always give the pures one spec that is stupidly good and pretty easy. It's one way they can push the "hybrid tax" idea without making it too severe; rogue parses on average will look higher in that spec because more rogues can do it well. That said, Assassin could stand a lil' somethin' somethin' in the next xpac: another cooldown, another proc, something.

PS: I use sin because we do 3-tank strategy for shaman and I don't like the idea of using KS on a boss with a death wall behind him. I would need a lot more experience with sub to do better than I do with sin; and atm I'm finding that my crappy single target skills at combat might actually do more damage for me than I could do with their spec.

[Nightman]

All 3 specs are viable in raiding, just play what you are most comfortable with or whatever provides you more entertainment.
Currently I'm playing combat and I love it, using the heroic warforged maces. If i ever get a heroic dagger i would like to switch back and forth between bosses to mix it up a bit, but i usually just play whatever is fun for me.

[Tenjen]

been assasination since vanilla as well. Changed to combat for a short while in Kara but despised it. switched to assass the moment i got the daggers.

the rogue specs are in a good position right now

[-Raer-]

I played Assassination for about 2 hours this Tuesday...I can NOT play this spec when there's an option to play either of the other specs. I remember my thoughts as I was regemming during our break "I wash my hands of this."

[Sesshou]

Ppl say its easy an stuf, in reality its a spec with a lot of room for you to realy master it, easy to learn hard ot master wich is how I think every spec should be. Not to mention its a lot more streamlined than other rogue specs and has an execute wich is super fun.

Lets just assume it is actually true that it has a lot of room for you to master it... with extremely minimal gain. Its the spec in the entire game where hitting the optimal ability next matters the least. Thats why it is easy, because its incredibly difficult to actually screw it up.

[Senftw]

Just out of curiosity, why are people even playing assassination anymore? It's a dead spec, and I feel like combat gives you the same single target damage AND the cleave is overpowered on alot of fights. The only fights where I would even deviate from combat is siegecrafter, where I would spec sub (even then combat is decent). Like, I get that mut does good single target damage, but why bother when you can spec combat, get the same single target damage and have a cleave that's overpowered on loads of bosses?

sorry for the wall of text, interested in hearing why some people have decided to stay with mut.

[Verain]

If that five line post counts as a wall of text, good sir, I do apologize.

Assassination is easier to play. In practice, this results in a damage gain on progression for many rogues, and my experience is that even when A is tuned rather low compared to C or S, there are still plenty of loyal mutilate rogues. Some don't want to play anything else (out of mechanical or kit preference), and others simply are most comfortable playing the spec (the same is generally not true of S, however) and will not switch out unless the other specs are FAR ahead. Many rogues take daggers and leave the non-daggers for other specs, based on comp: for instance, if the heroic mace drops and you and an enhancement are both possible upgrades, you might pass, or you may have been looted a dagger earlier and pass for that reason (or your loot system or council may pass for you, should you have already taken the dagger).

Mutilate has one big advantage that the other specs do not: real damage in execute phase, which you can even reforge to maximize.
I would also say that multi rupture has advantages, as does a mastery reforge on certain types of aoe- though these aren't really well repped this tier.



Overall, mutilate always has adherents, and I don't think the delta is large enough to expect rogues not to play it.