In a ten man bleeding edge setup, 28 pieces drop per clear. That is 2.8 per person. Plus 2x world bosses. Plus 3 coins. Plus Flex. Plus LFR.
For week 1 with no LFR and only Flex wing 1, I can see an average of 5-6 pieces dropping for those clearing everything.
For week 2, with LFR1 and Flex2 added to the mix, I can see a lot more gear pieces dropping, and if the raiders are spending VP to do all upgrades possible, they would have been out of VP by then.
I can certainly see all those guys pushing progression in the first 10 weeks not having enough VP to upgrade absolutely everything.
i wouldnt mind if they nerfed normal mode by 20% or w/e for the people doing that. but id prefer if they didnt touch heroics.
It is not needed but I bet it is coming.
You don't get gear that fast in practice because of a few reasons:
- You have more than 10 raiders, 12-13 is more likely so drops are spread over a larger number of players
- Some items will go to offspec or be disenchanted from week 1, and you'll disenchant more and more as time goes by. You're unlikely to have a spec in your raid for every type of loot drop. Duplicates will be disenchanted or offspec'd, when you get your 2nd pair of mail agility boots for your one hunter for example.
- Some items are plain bad (mainly some trinkets), and not worth using for anyone, let alone wasting valor on upgrading them
- LFR loot isn't an upgrade for anyone who did the previous tier extensively
- 2/2 upgraded Flexi loot is only a minor upgrade to previous tier heroic gear. It's a downgrade to heroic thunderforged gear. You're not going to waste valor on Flexi loot if it means delaying a normal/heroic Siege upgrade.
You start the tier with enough valor to upgrade 8 items, and you get enough valor for another 2 items every week after the first one. Some lucky people will get enough upgrades to run out of valor. Most people who started the tier with full or nearly full heroic ToT gear aren't in any danger of ever running out of valor unless they're also upgrading an offspec set.
Last edited by mmoc7960b93d6c; 2013-11-25 at 01:32 PM.
Well yes, that is exactly my point.
The assertion I was responding to is that "everyone" will pretty much automatically have all their gear upgraded as they get it, ergo no "nerf over time".
My argument is that no, not everyone will have all all their gear boosted by upgrades, particularly the bleeding edge progression groups. Casuals, on the other hand, for whom nerfs are needed, will typically end up upgrading their gear as they get it, because they aren't clearing content fast enough to run out of VP.
Thus, gear upgrades, as intended, act as a nerfing mechanism for the more casual playerbase.
If you think about it, everyone has 16 gear slots. Casuals starting out in LFR/Flex, progressing to normal and then a few heroics, will possibly end up replacing every gear item several times during progression. Hell, if you include minor upgrades (eg a hunter replacing a hit/mastery piece with crit/haste esp when already over hit cap) plus timeless Burden of Eternity (ie for better itemised slots) it could land up being a lot more for one slot: LFR => LFR better itemised => Burden of Eternity => Burden of Eternity better itemised => Flex => Flex better itemised => Normal => Normal better itemised => Normal Warforged => Normal Warforged better itemised => Heroic => Heroic better itemised => Heroic Warforged => Heroic BiS.
That's a staggering 14 possible upgrades for just 1 slot. Not that I am saying most people will apply VP upgrades 14 times for 1 slot, but I can certainly see people upgrading gear 2, 3 maybe even 4 times while progressing through the various difficulty settings, and spending VP each time.
Assuming an average of 3 upgrades per slot That makes 48 upgrades, or 24 weeks of VP capping to make it happen.
I don't think SoO needs a nerf really. It's not a hard instance...
Item upgrades are the new layered 30% buffs.
Its just feels(!) less "lets lower that bar for you, little kiddie!" and more like we are getting more powerfull to defeat the boss.
psychology at its finest^^
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."
No, they are not...
What the OP means, and where he is spot on, is the history of the game so far.
At the end of an expansion Blizzard has always opened the doors of the raid instances, always. Opened as in introduction of buffs, or nerf if one prefers that term..
Towards the end of the expansion, they put the buffs in place to let the people finally move through the content in what ever the mode is they play.
The 4 difficulty levels have no bearing to this. The only thing that changed between Cata and MoP was Flex. But that's not an argument either.
They are rewarding raids that are on normal mode and heroic mode. That's the traditional way since WotLK.
For TBC that change was more of a "stealth mode" nerf... The buff system came with WotLK, it allows for players to do the instance to their likes. They can freely choose to do it the old fashioned way, by turning the buff off, or with the buff active.
So yes, I too expect the buff to come, and that's where the [Ahead of the Curve] Achievement for SoO will be stopped from being awarded.
"The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."
Although I would quite like this to make it possible for us to boost multiple people on HC garrosh at once, I dont think it will happen for the simple fact that Flex difficulty now exists and it is pretty much a 30% nerfed Normal mode.
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#No, they are not...
Yes they are!
ghostcrawler even said so. The % buffs were there to help people overcome bosses they were stuck on, by increasing players dmg little by little (or decrease the bosses health) and by increasing your health (or the bosses dmg)
Since they didnt really get the "little by little" right (5% is a huge deal), it felt somewhat demotivating.
itemupgrades give you increasing dmg and hp over time (since you cant upgrade everything instantly, but have to wait for more valor). They do exactly the same thing.
The diffrence is just, that this time they got the Itemupgrades right and they are less massive (2 upgrades per week instead of 5% dmg every month). So they feel less invasive.
Apprently to a point where some players dont even see a connection
So I wouldt count on them ever coming back for current content.
Maybe 6.03 will have a instant 30% nurf like vanilla had, before bc came out.
Last edited by owbu; 2013-11-25 at 02:24 PM.
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."
the word "instantly" is missing there^^
its power given to you over time
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."
After all these years I've learned something about Blizzard. There is always the reason to expect 50% longer than you originally thought it would take. I don't see any possibility for a release in 6 months. Possibly takes 2-3 to get a playable Beta from now. Expect a relase on June-August next year and you won't be disappointed.