Do people really enjoy having epics thrown at them?

[Sathnick]

I feel like this is not only a problem just with WoW, but with society as a whole. The more people opt for instantaneous gratification over hard work - the lazier, slower, and more limited people get in general. Hard work for me IS enjoyment - you work hard, you see results, you become satisfied. It is one of the best feelings in life - for example if you go to the gym and spend hours slaving away with hard work in shaping the perfect body - isn't it the best feeling seeing and experiencing the results? That's why I hate when I see so many people shy away from a bit of difficulty or effort - without realising it they're actually making it less enjoyable for themselves and in turn less enjoyable for everyone else.

Actually I agree with this mostly - but I think its just not the same for everyone. I think for a lot of people its rather like (staying with your example) that they want to have the muscles immidiately and then they can still enjoy going to the Gym and lifting a lot of weight (or raiding in high end gear for that matter).

I dont see anything wrong with it these days....I did have a different oppinion in my "hardcore raiding days" though.

I think whether it's obvious to oneself or not it always boils down to people who invest a lot of effort dont want other people to invest less effort to achieve a similar result...understandable but still...

[Itisamuh]

This is an absurd argument. Competition is what drives some people whether it be real life or a game, and to suggest that people with a competitive spirit "have no life" is just a ridiculous attempt to make yourself feel better about not being competitive. And in that competitive spirit, there's a certain satisfaction with winning and being rewarded. Hell, there's a certain satisfaction even when you don't win, but you can cheer on someone who DID win that prize that you missed out on... And that drive to get it next time is exciting. To dislike someone because they won something you didn't is childish.

And then there's the "you showed up" trophy.

"God, his life must be so sad that he wants first place in that race."
"God, his life must be so sad that he wants to beat that other guy at chess."
"God, his life must be so sad that he sits around for hours at a time watching other people play a game and hoping his team wins."

If you're not competitive, that's great. More power to you for however you choose to live/play. But for some it's fun, and winning means something. Getting that first place trophy means a lot more than getting a "hey, you showed up" trophy.

Some people enjoy competition and winning because it's exciting, not because they're attempting to compensate for some figurative failed life as you suggest.

Fair enough, but others consider competition only competition if the playing field is level. To some the fun is in the playing and the competition itself, not in the rewards (or the trophy, as you put it) which just seem like mandatory burdens. And yeah, you can say those people are playing the wrong genre, but the genre is slowly changing to encompass them too.

[Belisaurio]

I get the same feeling every time I win an item that improves over the existing one.

Are you sure?
If you win something you become really happy and feels amazing because it's not "normal" to win something every week. But after the first win If you start winning other things...that become common and pass from something "amazing" to something "normal", and with some time "boring".

[chezwickcheese]

I still think LFR and below should drop rare gear not epic. Could you imagine the outrage if they did this? My god

[Deleted]

I used to love the feeling of getting an epic and it actually meaning something. Why are they even called epics now? They're hardly epic to obtain, they don't feel epic, and the majority don't even look epic. What happened to blues being the most common form of gear? What was wrong with that?

For the argument that casuals wanted more epics because it felt like they were missing out - isn't that the point?

What's epic for me is the shitness of my BiS gear's drop rating.

Let's take Thok for example. Coin rolls have given me three different versions of a weapon I don't want, several duplicates of a crappy ring, but not the one trinket I need. Or even a tier token.

[Jessicka]

I still think LFR and below should drop rare gear not epic. Could you imagine the outrage if they did this? My god

It wouldn't be so much outrage as confusion when someone took a few months out from raiding N/H, came back and got some blue upgrades from LFR to catch up.

I don't know how much it needs repeating, but the loot model has never changed. Once you're killing raid bosses, upgrades from that point are and always were purple and remained that way as you moved through tiers.

[rogueMatthias]

It's just a colour text label FFS. That's ALL IT IS. How pathetic is your life that the colour of the text on item names in a computer game is THAT important to you?

Blizz should add a different colour for Mythic just to stop all the entitled raiders thinking their purple text fields are so MASSIVELY fekking important.

[judgementofantonidas]

I know far more people who rather kill off farm bosses than progressing on new, so yeah im pretty sure most of us like having epics thrown at us

This is all too true. Even more are the players who do not want to participate in any form of progression, well up until you are on the last boss of the tier and then they come creeping back from under whatever rock they were under when you needed them.

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I don't even know what to say to this lol

not much you can and maintain any form of logic in your life.

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You know, every time I check the chat section of Openraid, I see a bunch of flex groups without any meaningful requirements... and, yet, every time I check these forums, I hear how all of the flex groups out there require absurd item levels.

I should probably go get my head checked, because those Openraid groups that I see are clearly imaginary.

What many of the complainers over quality control in pug groups fail to point out is that they realize that the players who do some form of quality check, be it higher than required ilvl or asking for prior completion of the bosses to be engaged are the groups that they WANT to be in because they have already fully experienced the craptastic nature of groups who do not.

They are just not willing to take their punches and work through those groups in order to reach the higher ilvl that better groups require or, and this is the biggy, either move to a RAIDING guild that will cater to their level of play or if that level is so meager that they would never get ahead without max-carry improve or find something that they ARE capable of.

You do not see geared players complaining about the requirements to get in a smooth group.

Honestly 550 is too low to be guaranteed to obtain players who know what they are doing.

I got invited to a wing 4 yesterday. I was assured that everyone was 550 ilvl and knew what they were doing. Three wipes full of saw blades all over the room, the boss following me to the center of the room when it was my turn to take out the shredder, or stack 6 and still no offtank anywhere to be found.

560 or guild groups for me.

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Are you saying that a player in full BIS HM gear is not a sign of "doing better"? OT that because it's all the same color that it doesn't matter?

Begining of expac yes. After the big guilds start selling carries no.

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What's epic for me is the shitness of my BiS gear's drop rating.

Let's take Thok for example. Coin rolls have given me three different versions of a weapon I don't want, several duplicates of a crappy ring, but not the one trinket I need. Or even a tier token.

I coined tail tip our second kill. But that does not diminish the fact that it could have been our 20th or never. Had it dropped naturally I would have sent it directly to our ret paladin.

[BEYR]

Who here played before ~1.9? Anyone? No? Ok, so officially none of you have ever been in a WoW environment where epics were rare. Get over it and move on.

[Drew World Order]

People are still whining about this all these years later?!? I mean i understood some of the whining when BC was giving epic drops on heroic dungeons bosses especially after the grind it look to get epics in vanilla but seriously this is 7 years later. The color of your tool tip doesn't mean you are a good/great/terrible player anymore.

[Deleted]

I'm with itisamuh, i am the kind of person who uses cheatcodes to get unlimited ammo / health so i can enjoy a game.
Because that is what i'm playing, a game. If i want to work hard for something i'll actually...WORK.
Games are for mindless entertainment, not hard work :P

This is whats destroying the gaming world as we know it, fucking lazy fuckers

[ComputerNerd]

The term "epic" has not meant anything since vanilla, and tends to have meaning only to elitist players who get a thrill from feeling superior to others, when in reality being a better player is more than skill or gear.

There have been world drops prior to lvl 60 which were purple, multiple tiers of raid content in vanilla offering purple gear.
Those two alone killed the meaning of the term as being "top-tier".

[Wrathonia]

Who here played before ~1.9? Anyone? No? Ok, so officially none of you have ever been in a WoW environment where epics were rare. Get over it and move on.

Guess what Mr. Elitist, I came in about 1.4. I remember getting a Brightwood Staff from a chest near the Winterfall Furbolgs. Sadly, I had a hard time deciding on a main and still do, so I never really got to raid and never got a single raid epic until BC. Trust me, I know what epic means. I really wish people still had to earn them as well.

[Heladys]

I used to love the feeling of getting an epic and it actually meaning something.

Getting an epic never meant something. Take off your rose-colored glasses.

[Sevyvia]

To many of us, gear is only a requirement to have fun. So yes, I would love for the best gear to be mailed to me, so I can have unrestrained fun.

So basically, the idea of achieving anything is unfun to you? What does your life look like? o.O The main reason the game's gone downhill is that for the normal player, achieving things is largely a thing of the past. "Achievements" are, funnily, generally not actual achievements. Getting an epic is not an achievement. Seeing an end boss is not an achievement.

Those things used to be achievements. Back when the game had its biggest subscriber growth ever. TBC.

[Wrathonia]

So basically, the idea of achieving anything is unfun to you? What does your life look like? o.O The main reason the game's gone downhill is that for the normal player, achieving things is largely a thing of the past. "Achievements" are, funnily, generally not actual achievements. Getting an epic is not an achievement. Seeing an end boss is not an achievement.

Those things used to be achievements. Back when the game had its biggest subscriber growth ever. TBC.

Ah, the time when raid bosses were called guild killers because of how tough they were. Yeah, we will never see that again.

[Skorpionss]

Yes, I love having epics thrown at me. I loved it when I got iLvl 500 on my first day of lvl 90 on my hunter.

[Heladys]

Who here played before ~1.9? Anyone? No? Ok, so officially none of you have ever been in a WoW environment where epics were rare. Get over it and move on.

Epics were "rare" back in the day but still didn't "mean" anything. Lookit all the people walking around with brightwood staffs, or stockade pauldrons any of the other world drop epics.

Epics outside of raids weren't earned, they were a lottery right from the word go.

[BEYR]

Guess what Mr. Elitist, I came in about 1.4. I remember getting a Brightwood Staff from a chest near the Winterfall Furbolgs. Sadly, I had a hard time deciding on a main and still do, so I never really got to raid and never got a single raid epic until BC. Trust me, I know what epic means. I really wish people still had to earn them as well.

I'm the elitist? You're complaining because the color of your gear isn't helping your epeen enough. By the end of vanilla, you could get a run through MC with little to no effort. Most of the drops were open roll because guilds were farming it for bindings. There was never a time after that that gearing was restrictively gated. the 4 billionth thread complaining about epics in the last 8 years is a touch absurd. And how exactly is a random drop from a chest "epic?" Really had to put yourself out for that one I see.

[Deleted]

i dont think that the "colour" is very important. i would enjoy the same itemlvl if it was "only" blue.


i think they should revert it, that everything more than rare is only in raids.

BUT:

the solo and lower instance content must be FUN without havin raidgear/epics. i dont think that its all about "epics" but itemlvl. and blizzard continues to mix contents, so that with nonepic or nonraidgear some things in that game are just not fun.
its because they said "isle of time" should be "manageable" with 463 (in rares) but still "not too boring" with part-epic raid gear. actually this makes both sides pissed: good raiders will still be bored as hell, and the not-so-well-trained solo-or causals wont have fun gearing up on the isle, cause its too unforgiving.


i think: raidgear should be FOR raids, and be epic

instance gear should be for instances and solocontent and be rare.

but only if: i dont need fukin raidepics just to have fun in later casual gameplay.

scenarios for example are somehow nice, but you actually need better gear to gain a chance of an 516 epic. im full epic 525 and its still not fun to play, though the loot is LOWER than the shit i have. (i only go there because my wepaon is crap isle thing ;-))


i would really let raiders have their raidgear as epic alone. i would be glad if i had rares that make solo/casual gameplay FUN to play.

unfortunately some classes really depend on raidgear or certain very high itemlvl, like ret, because its rotation is just rough and not-fun withoot raidgear. thats why all cry for epics, cause classes are designed around having very high raid ilvl before they are fully functional.


blizzard should nort try to make casual content thats "fun" for raiders, cause it makes it automatically frustrating for casuals. NOR should they try to make raids casual, cause raiders will be bored. luckily raids are now devided into "easy as hell" and "for real raiders", causal content is not. and cannot be devided. therefore it MUST be orientated on the "not perfectionist" gamers i think.