Gear Changes in Warlords of Draenor

[taheen74]

Even more confused now than I was in the first place. Seriously, this just seems to be more overcomplicated than it needs to be.

[Socialhealer]

get some gear without spirit? has blizzard tried playing a hybrid....YOU'VE PUT IT ON EVERY PIECE IDIOTS, as a shaman like 95% of loot has spirit on, some slots don't even have an option without spirit i know 6.0 will be a small amount of time but still if i have to run around with 4k spirit that does nothing, thats stupid incompetence from blizzard as they knew this was coming, don't flood gear with spirit if u know it's going to be useless for hybrids.

[Deleted]

"In the case of Spirit, imagine that stacking Spirit on every non-armor slot will give you more mana regeneration than you would reasonably need."

What an utterly retarded change. Effectively, they are turning Spirit into the new "hit" for healers - exactly at the moment when they are dismantling hit, WTF?

Healers will need to get Spirit capped, by getting a few spirit trinkets and rings or some such. Then after that, mana will not matter at freaking all. That's what they are saying. After all the years of arguing, rightly, that managing the mana resource should matter for healers, they go straight into implementing a system where healers can easily disable the whole system by getting a few non-armor pieces witn enough Spirit to cover all your bases.

I just lost faith in the mental health of their game design department.

[Mormolyce]

Forgetting about tertiary stats for now.

I really don´t like this new system because there is going to be too much loot drama with upgrades and you are going to have to now deal with loot whores wanting every item that has ´better secondary stats´... and every time Blizzard makes a change to a spell, those people will now change their BIS gear. I like it where you get your ilvl item, and then maybe have one ´upgrade´ that is of the same ilvl. But under this new system, it seems like I could get a poorly itemized item, and then have many other items for that slot that are upgrades....

I get that they are trying to prolong the BIS race.. but I just don´t think having 4 upgrades with the same ilvl is the way to do it.

Secondaries are fixed, so the only time that would happen is if there's a crit boot and a haste boot in the one tier and they win the crit one but actually want the haste one. Exactly the same as now. And that's the way it's always been.

If you're obsessed with getting the perfect tertiary stats and max number of gem slots in the right colours then yeah you might be raiding for a looooong time. But most sane people will enjoy getting their normal item faster and if it has gems/tertiaries, that's just a bonus.

[Deleted]

I think there is one thing Blizzard does not understand about looting.
BiS is needed by min/max bleeding edge top tier raiders, but desired by everyone.

If this new gear will remain bound on pickup then the new Mythic WF race will not be who is the fastest and most skilled but who will be favored by RNG god.

If those new item features will be much more powerful than regular versions of the same item then the upper staitment will be the problem.
If those new item features will not be much more powerful than regular versions of the same item then the design time and effort will be wasted on something marginal.

I can only see it work if the RNG loot on RNG will not be soulbound to characters. Yeah sure, dedicated people will raid every lockout as they do now, but this time the pain will come from crappy version of the item you seek.

[Mormolyce]

"In the case of Spirit, imagine that stacking Spirit on every non-armor slot will give you more mana regeneration than you would reasonably need."

What an utterly retarded change. Effectively, they are turning Spirit into the new "hit" for healers - exactly at the moment when they are dismantling hit, WTF?

Healers will need to get Spirit capped, by getting a few spirit trinkets and rings or some such. Then after that, mana will not matter at freaking all. That's what they are saying. After all the years of arguing, rightly, that managing the mana resource should matter for healers, they go straight into implementing a system where healers can easily disable the whole system by getting a few non-armor pieces witn enough Spirit to cover all your bases.

I just lost faith in the mental health of their game design department.

You realise that they are describing spirit exactly as it is right now, right? Nothing is changing about spirit except that you get it from non-armour pieces only, and the amount you get/need is adjusted to compensate.

It's exactly the OPPOSITE of what you're saying, the whole reason they like spirit and are keeping it is that unlike hit it's NOT something you just cap according to what the guide told you. You wear as much as you feel comfortable with.

If you go full spirit right now you will have more than you need as well... that's the whole point of gearing as a healer, figuring out how much spirit you want to manage output vs. regen...

- - - Updated - - -

It really is, especially as someone excellently pointed out (I don't remember who), unlike Diablo, we don't get unlimited boss kills for loot a week anyway. I'm not against some RNG for gearing, but this just sounds like a LOT. Can't my Bracers of Broken Doubt just be... Bracers of Broken Doubt?

(Also I mentioned trifecta but in reality there's EVEN MORE rng because you have desirable versus crap tertiary stats too...)

Your Bracers of Broken Doubt ARE Bracers of Broken Doubt, it's just that 10% of the time it'll have a bonus socket in it, and/or some run speed on it or something nice like that. So instead of trying to get your Bracers of Broken Doubt for 8 weeks, it drops for you in week 3, but when it drops again in week 8 it has +multistrike or whatever, so instead of sharding it it's actually a minor upgrade.

A MINOR upgrade. You got the bracers themselves much earlier and that's much more important than getting the theoretically best possible version of it. Like 95% of the benefit vs 5%.

[ZyloWolfBane]

Only thing I'm taking from this is that it's going to be even harder for people to get the gear they want until everything has the raid finder format for loot. They are increasing the competition pool this way.

[iperson]

But now you have a higher chance to get an item...

^^^

You will gear up a LOT faster with the new gearing system since there won't be so much wasted gear (int plate, tank plate, etc...) You'll just take much much longer to get a perfectly itemized set (actually a perfect set doesn't sound like it will be attainable prior to the next tier.) The new system is a giant leap forward in that it smoothes out the gearing process while making loot on the 10th+ boss kill still interesting.

[Mic_128]

Only thing I'm taking from this is that it's going to be even harder for people to get the gear they want until everything has the raid finder format for loot. They are increasing the competition pool this way.

Increasing the competition pool? True. Just don't ignore the fact they're also removing the trash drops. Had intel plate drop again, third time in a row despite your Paladin healer fully geared? Now instead of DEing it, throw it at your tank and it's usable! Is the tank geared, and you're getting nothing but tank pieces? Not anymore, throw it at a dps or healer!

Don't complain about having more competion AND ignore the fact there's more prizes up for grabs.

[Celista]

Your Bracers of Broken Doubt ARE Bracers of Broken Doubt, it's just that 10% of the time it'll have a bonus socket in it, and/or some run speed on it or something nice like that. So instead of trying to get your Bracers of Broken Doubt for 8 weeks, it drops for you in week 3, but when it drops again in week 8 it has +multistrike or whatever, so instead of sharding it it's actually a minor upgrade.

A MINOR upgrade. You got the bracers themselves much earlier and that's much more important than getting the theoretically best possible version of it. Like 95% of the benefit vs 5%.

This is like, the dumbest way for Blizzard to stretch out content, w/tertiary stats. For one, it's limited to raiders. Why not set up a system that increases the power of all players at level cap? Rift has their planar attunement system that give small bonuses to run speed/swim speed/mount speed etc, along with minor stat increases...you gain experience needed to level PA through questing, group content, pvp, etc. At the moment there's something like 1000+ points to cap PA, so it takes forever to level, and points are account wide.

Makes much more sense than throwing a chance to maybe get some bonus stats from raid gear.

[Mukor]

"PvP gear will have more stats to choose from, and less worrying about hit caps! PvP Power will likely still exist to make sure PvP gear is powerful without being more powerful than PvE gear in PvE. Additional PvP changes are beyond the scope of this discussion, but we do want to make sure PvE gear doesn’t outstrip PvP gear for world PvP"

glad they're looking into the world pvp problem a bit

[Morendo]

This could be a great boon for professions - both gathering and armor/weapon making. It would be like extra chances to try for the bonus items after your raid, as long as they integrate raid level loot to all production professions. The cost of crafting the item for the chance of the bonus stats would be somewhat prohibitive so that raiding for that item (FOR FREE!) would still be the preferred method, but if you really wanted to spend the money or time invested in obtaining the components to craft the same item repeatedly hoping for the bonus stats, you could. No doubt the bonus stats will also apply to Garrison obtained loot as well. But this is somewhat dependent on crafting and garrison loot keeping up with new tiers of raiding.

[Shudder]

I don't like this new gear system i liked some of it prior to reading this post though...and then...no...just no.

I like how it is now, but i agree with some of the earlier reply s, it seems to me they are going backwards and opposite of what they are intending, so many issues that they are so short-sighted to see, how much it will change things, mostly for worse, with just a few tiny positives, and for no real good reason.

I've always thought loot in wow should have gone to a token/point system, like how LOTRO did it, loot doesn't drop, it drops tokens and you take those tokens to choose the gear you want, simple.

So instead of adding RNG to every drop, making every drop different every time, with the best rolls being so low you most likely wont ever see it, then just make all gear on a system where you get your base item, and then can enhance or upgrade said item, through professions or points, maybe valor, or a use for the useless justice points atm, something NEW not going backwards, or clunky RNG for every single drop like this, this is not the right solution at all.

A mail agility item drops for my hunter, it has crit/mastery and i want haste. no problem go to vendor or some kind of ui panel, swap out 1 for the other (not reforge, a complete swap) or a gem socket, maybe have it so you get a new currency, when you get enough currency can use some of it to add gem slots, new stats or secondary stats to existing gear, that way...you have more customization and choice, rather than pure RNG hope for the best like they are wanting to do, makes no sense.

I think the right way to go would be to drop base items, and then allow us to further customize gear through a few different means, knowing your class/spec/stats is what separates the average/casual from the pros and the good players, and those that do min/max and raid, its not to show off, but because they simply like to have the best gear possible, with this new system they are wanting to do, its going more torwards out of 10 players only 2 of them have perfect setup, vs 10 today, the gear will be so rare, but you will get so sick of running same boss hoping for same item but with a gem slot, and not getting it, getting same gear with speed instead of gem, that why bother?

this wont make us play more, eventually we will play less cuz we wont even care to run it 100x to get each item perfect, so why even gate us like this? why take the effort to implement this if its going to not really improve anything?

The only part i like is the gear switching on spec switch, but if the secondary stats don't change, then that's pretty much pointless too, cuz still have to have a 2nd set, to be optimal? its seriously not hard to force stats onto people, if that stat is determined to be the best, generally the stat don't change for entire expansion, like mastery for warlocks, pretty much has been best stat since mop launch right? why cant they say OK guys locks will use mastery?

do they WANT us to pick wrong stat or think that by choosing the right stat it somehow makes people be/feel more pro? i think if they forced it on us, would be an improvement to everyone no more guessing game, or people not knowing what their best stat is.

If they are going to do this, then why not just change up secondary stats, every class has a different secondary they focus on, and every spec within the same class even, survival hunters prefer crit, BM hunters like haste for example. Why is it so hard to just tie in a secondary stat based on a primary? agility will always rise as you get better gear right? make baseline haste rise as your gear improves, or make 1 new stat, that basically gives you your class/spec stat and put that 1 stat on gear, solved. Then when u switch specs, bam you have your main stat + correct secondary stat

How many people stack another stat if they even have a clue which one to stack? If you know best is haste, its not like you can/will stack crit, just to be different, be gimping yourself? the illusion of choice is all it is. There is truly only 1 choice, the "other" stat atm (like crit vs haste) is just there to be different and change things up between drops for class/specs. Example i got 559 chest from ordos tonight, it has crit/mastery, i am a BM hunter, i focus on haste, ok so now that 559 chest is nice, i wouldn't end up using it, even if my chest is 548 (which also breaks my 4 piece...another story all together) because crit/mastery are not very optimal for BM. Sure its higher ilvl, but breaking my 4 piece and not optimal stats means lose more than gain.

So basically have items with 1 main stat and 1 "master" secondary stat, that 2nd stat just changes depending on class/spec, haste/crit/mastery...why cant we all be optimal? the separation of good/bad players shouldn't be by the choices they make in gear, sure choices are good, but some choices are just illusions, in the end you will choose 1, and stack it, so why give us gear we don't want or need, its always been a waste, other than for disenchant/vendor fodder.

At some point they may even try making gear that lasts several tiers, imangine getting a base item in tier 1, but through upgrades (ilvl/stats/sockets) you carry it with you, rather than swapping out every piece every tier, its something to ponder about.

Nobody is going to read your novella, learn to be succinct.

[The Penguin]

The only thing worrisome to me is the talk of a lack of needing Spirit. In Cataclysm, one of the major problems that made the game unenjoyable and also unraidable until 5.2 by all save a few was the rehaul to healing and the mana-matters mentality. The only argument made to excuse that design vision was that healers could stack Spirit if they felt they were lacking to improve the situation. In this case it appears that stacking Spirit will not be an option at all. Great for Monks and Paladins who rely on secondary resources to heal also. Not so great for all other Healer Classes.

I fear they once again try to solve a problem that does not need to be corrected. If healers are forced to endure the stupidity that was 5.0-5.1, pre- Z.A. Z.G., expect numbers to plummet faster than a brick of lead into the ocean, and expect WoD to be tainted in the same fashion that Cataclysm was.

Cataclysm Dungeons were hard, but they weren't hard for hardness sake. They were hard because Healers were not given the tools to keep their tanks alive, and DPS who could not stay out of avoidable damage would strain the healers mana. If the healer was wise and reminded the DPS to stay out of the damage, the healer was slammed by the LFD crowd with "Healer sux, kick him."


I'd urge Blizzard to consider this and take measures to avoid such a course now, rather than later. This expansion deserves to be the best it possibly can, and it is for that reason alone I bring this point up.

[Mormolyce]

This is like, the dumbest way for Blizzard to stretch out content, w/tertiary stats. For one, it's limited to raiders. Why not set up a system that increases the power of all players at level cap? Rift has their planar attunement system that give small bonuses to run speed/swim speed/mount speed etc, along with minor stat increases...you gain experience needed to level PA through questing, group content, pvp, etc. At the moment there's something like 1000+ points to cap PA, so it takes forever to level, and points are account wide.

Makes much more sense than throwing a chance to maybe get some bonus stats from raid gear.

?

It's designed to make gearing faster at the start but with a longer tail, specifically in the context of raiding. It's nothing remotely like max level levelling, and isn't intended to be. The run speed is just one such bonus.

They incentivise out-of-raid activity with things like charms, and they haven't yet confirmed how exactly we'll earn them and how they'll work in WoD. And yeah the charms are only useful if you raid (at least LFR anyway) but that's because WoW's endgame mostly points to raiding, that's the way the game has always been. It's not ALL the game is but still, it's a major component.

[nightfalls]

The only thing worrisome to me is the talk of a lack of needing Spirit. In Cataclysm, one of the major problems that made the game unenjoyable and also unraidable until 5.2 by all save a few was the rehaul to healing and the mana-matters mentality. The only argument made to excuse that design vision was that healers could stack Spirit if they felt they were lacking to improve the situation. In this case it appears that stacking Spirit will not be an option at all. Great for Monks and Paladins who rely on secondary resources to heal also. Not so great for all other Healer Classes.

Paladins right now are among the highest spirit-requiring classes. If I had to drop 1/4 of my spirit (say, due to not having spirit pieces drop or not winning them) I would really, really be hurting right now.

Of course that has nothing to do with how mana regen will go in WoD. But it does mean that volatility in what loot you get can resonate a lot more later on.

[Mormolyce]

The only thing worrisome to me is the talk of a lack of needing Spirit. In Cataclysm, one of the major problems that made the game unenjoyable and also unraidable until 5.2 by all save a few was the rehaul to healing and the mana-matters mentality. The only argument made to excuse that design vision was that healers could stack Spirit if they felt they were lacking to improve the situation. In this case it appears that stacking Spirit will not be an option at all. Great for Monks and Paladins who rely on secondary resources to heal also. Not so great for all other Healer Classes.

I feel like people are really misreading the spirit comment. There is a curve with spirit where at the start of the expansion you try to get as much spirit as possible, but by the end your ILVL is high enough that you can drop spirit off some pieces and still have enough mana, and it's up to you to decide where that balance is. That has always been the case, it's the case in MoP right now, and it will continue to be the case in WoD. It's intentional and the devs like it.

ALL that is changing is that it'll be on fewer items. The amount of spirit you need and the amount on those items will be adjusted so it's exactly the same as it would've been had they not made this change. So at the start of WoD you'll probably want spirit on everything, but a few raid tiers in and you'll be able to drop a bit of spirit for more throughput, like always.

Let's say you have 15 gear slots at the moment, and all of them can have spirit, let's say 100 spirit each (for the sake of argument). So at most you can have 1500 spirit, but maybe you feel like 1200 spirit is just fine so you drop 3 pieces for more throughput.

Then Blizzard makes these changes and instead you only have 7 gear slots that can have spirit. Either:

A) Each item with spirit has 200 instead of 100 spirit on it, or
B) They still have 100 spirit on them, but Blizzard doubles the relative value of spirit

So it's all the same. You drop 1-2 spirit items in favour of throughput ones.

[Darksoldierr]

I think they overcomplicate things, for the sake of lengthen the content. After progress is over, you cannot skip raids anymore, since (probably) still need the rng gods' support for that item with that socket gear with that bonus stat

[Celista]

?

It's designed to make gearing faster at the start but with a longer tail, specifically in the context of raiding. It's nothing remotely like max level levelling, and isn't intended to be. The run speed is just one such bonus.

They incentivise out-of-raid activity with things like charms, and they haven't yet confirmed how exactly we'll earn them and how they'll work in WoD. And yeah the charms are only useful if you raid (at least LFR anyway) but that's because WoW's endgame mostly points to raiding, that's the way the game has always been. It's not ALL the game is but still, it's a major component.

It's an inelegant system that really only caters to one type of player. They say it's to stretch out gearing, but they could have accomplished this in other ways; this is more about keeping people subbed between raid patches. Upgrading heroic gear + thunderforging, etc wasn't enough of a solution? We need another layer on top of the current gearing system?

WoW would do well to introduce something that would keep players busy at level cap and boosts player power, but what they are suggesting isn't all that enticing.

[jjuice32]

I think they overcomplicate things.

I think people overcomplicate things.

I don't have any confusion at all with how gear is being changed and agree with all of it.