Remove Elitists From Raids and Battlegrounds

[Terridon]

No, see the difference is I try my best, avoid bad mechanics, and I'm friendly/helpful. Please don't straw man. This is about effort.

You said they aren't a hindrance. You didn't say big, not small or anything else. Thats false, because they are hindering. It causes wipes.

Now i know i'm not the only that think it's fun to see 2 fruits fighting. Lemon vs lime, but now it has lasted for a while, so i looked back at something. You've been going on for a while about her saying the AFKers/bad players/whatever was NO hindrance at all, which i couldn't remember to see. The posts that started it from what i could see is:

It's LFR. 5 people can be AFk and you'll still complete the dungeon. It barely affects anyone else.

Nothing I said was false. You can still easily complete the raid with 5 people AFK. If those people were there, you wouldn't see a massive difference unless they were overgeared, which is highly unlikely.

First says it's possible to complete it with them, which is true.
Second says "massive". Not a first time, as you said earlier on this page, when lime used it again.
First one is back from page 35 btw, so i'm afraid you're wrong, and has been going on for pretty long on that one now. Dunno why lime didn't point it out. Unless it went on even further back, but didn't see it.

[Lime]

False, its a straw man. We aren't talking about BiS. We are talking about effort. Purely effort. Its ad that people want to be carried so badly. Do you get your little sister to play RPGs for you, so you can sit and eat your chicken out of a bucket?

If she wants to play, why not? It is a video game. To top it off, it's the most un-competitive difficulty mode of said video game. Petty is petty.

[Terridon]

you guys know most of those "elitists" are just casuals that get angry very easy

lmao you gettem forum heroes

That's what i've been saying too

[Lime]

Lemon vs lime

Woah, I didn't even notice this. Why are we arguing lemon? We're suppose to be family.

Also, I'm very preoccupied, so I'm not sure if I'm even on point at the moment lol.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If she wants to play, why not? It is a video game. To top it off, it's the most un-competitive difficulty mode of said video game. Petty is petty.

Because you're wasting 24 other peoples time. If she wants to get handed free loot, then she should be prepared to get kicked for being a scummy leech. If my "way I want to play" includes screaming obscenities.. then I should be allowed? Oh wait.. doubt you'll say yes.

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Woah, I didn't even notice this. Why are we arguing lemon? We're suppose to be family.

Also, I'm very preoccupied, so I'm not sure if I'm even on point at the moment lol.

We are arguing because you seem to be defending scumbags, while I think they should either conform to better behavior or be kicked.

[ShimmerSwirl]

To translate for you. During the part you hated most we got more and more users. Towards the end it began falling, a bit as it always does during the end. Cataclysm came and it went a bit up very shortly, and then people began leaving. It very much contradicts your faulty(I can say this because you're WRONG :P ) idea of how things happened.

Heres what I see in your graph:

The game was growing from release all the way through BC, never having a single loss. Wotlk releases and the growth immediately stops and stagnates. It jumps at the end due to the annual pass gimmick, and then goes steadily downward throughout cata and mop. Cata was not by any means a hardcore expansion, and the fact that so many players complained at the start of Cata only tells me that the Wotlk stagnation was likely a massive church where all the hardcore players were leaving and getting replaced in equal number by casuals. Anyone who did BC heroics would not find Cata heroics to be remotely difficult.

A mistake a lot of people make is to oversimplify "hardcore vs casual" to being measured solely through raiding. I think raiding is actually only a small part of the debate. Its all the other stuff that blizzard changed that made it become casual. Homogenizing all the classes and buffs. Devaluing mounts and giving them away cheaper and at lower levels for very little effort. Mounts used to be something to get excited about, not anymore. Making elites hit like a wet noodle. Increasing player power and reducing mob power to the point where a level 5 noob in Elwynn feels like a god. The world used to be a little bit more scary, the threat of death was always around the corner. Now its just a cake, your on rails and its near impossible to fail. Which in turn makes success a lot less satisfying because you did nothing to earn it. Hogger became a WoW legend because he kicked noobs asses. Now modern noobs kick his ass without even trying and gen an achievement for doing it. That in a nutshell is the problem with WoW now. Too tame, no danger, no thrill. Just repetitive monotony.

[Terridon]

Woah, I didn't even notice this. Why are we arguing lemon? We're suppose to be family.

Also, I'm very preoccupied, so I'm not sure if I'm even on point at the moment lol.

You did take it the better way ;D

Maybe. I don't think you need to be 14/14 heroic to think people should be pulling more then 30k dps at 500 ilvl.

No. But nobody do that either, unless they're really afk. I've seen it once the past weeks and i've run lfr on 3 chars. One of them i run them multiple times because i, dear me, enjoy it. One person doing that. A rogue, that got kicked after second boss because of that.

Because you're wasting 24 other peoples time. If she wants to get handed free loot, then she should be prepared to get kicked for being a scummy leech. If my "way I want to play" includes screaming obscenities.. then I should be allowed? Oh wait.. doubt you'll say yes.

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We are arguing because you seem to be defending scumbags, while I think they should either conform to better behavior or be kicked.

You're defending to be a scumbag. Not "better behavior"
It's really not a lot that truly afks. People are just not good, and lfr is made for them.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You're defending to be a scumbag. Not "better behavior"

False. I am defending people respect each other and work hard to complete their shared goal. Being polite, friendly, and putting in effort to down bosses is what I am fighting for.

[Zamfix]

You need to stop caring and /ignore [playername]

[Strafir]

You need to stop caring and /ignore [playername]

How is that a better alternative than owning up to your mistakes and improving?

[Lime]

Because you're wasting 24 other peoples time. If she wants to get handed free loot, then she should be prepared to get kicked for being a scummy leech. If my "way I want to play" includes screaming obscenities.. then I should be allowed? Oh wait.. doubt you'll say yes.

I never said that she shouldnt be kicked. I even acknowledge that it was a possibility. It is up to the group, not Blizzard to determine who can remain in the group. Look at where all this started, some guy said that anyone who plays the way they want should be removed instead.

And don't compare this to obscenities. One is against ToS and the other isn't. Now if your point was, should you be allowed to yell random things. Sure, but it's up to the group, not Blizzard that decides if you'll stay.

[Floopa]

I don't think people in the top guilds in the world care about LFR raiders at all. I can't even remember the last time I did LFR on my main. I actually have only killed Norushen and Sha of Pride once (each) in LFR. Where is the elitism from top players you're whining about coming from? It sure isn't coming from anyone I know. I mostly raid log nowadays (don't even cap VP) and play HS, Diablo 3 (the beta) and DotA.

[Terridon]

False. I am defending people respect each other and work hard to complete their shared goal. Being polite, friendly, and putting in effort to down bosses is what I am fighting for.

It's a bit like a twitching eye, right? The part with you saying "False" in front of every single post? >.>
But if that's what you fight for we're in agreement. As long as it doesn't go overboard to as they have to play superwell, since it is god damn lfr.
Was just tired of you keep saying lime haven't said something he/she had said

[Lime]

False. I am defending people respect each other and work hard to complete their shared goal. Being polite, friendly, and putting in effort to down bosses is what I am fighting for.

This is what we all want, but ultimately, thats impossible. There comes a time where you have to ask yourself, is it really worth making an issue out of it? Imo, a few afk / minimal effort players isn't.

[Neldarie]

Actions/effort > words.

Both in wow and RL. If you succumb to words from "elitists/scumbags" , maybe it's time to grow a sack?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I never said that she shouldnt be kicked. I even acknowledge that it was a possibility. It is up to the group, not Blizzard to determine who can remain in the group. Look at where all this started, some guy said that anyone who plays the way they want should be removed instead.

And don't compare this to obscenities. One is against ToS and the other isn't. Now if your point was, should you be allowed to yell random things. Sure, but it's up to the group, not Blizzard that decides if you'll stay.

But I should be able to "play how I want" in your opinion, right?

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It's a bit like a twitching eye, right? The part with you saying "False" in front of every single post? >.>
But if that's what you fight for we're in agreement. As long as it doesn't go overboard to as they have to play superwell, since it is god damn lfr.
Was just tired of you keep saying lime haven't said something he/she had said

No I was still correct there too. She may have edited. The post just said hindrance, which in fact they are.

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This is what we all want, but ultimately, thats impossible. There comes a time where you have to ask yourself, is it really worth making an issue out of it? Imo, a few afk / minimal effort players isn't.

Yes, its worth it.

[Terridon]

I don't think people in the top guilds in the world care about LFR raiders at all. I can't even remember the last time I did LFR on my main. I actually have only killed Norushen and Sha of Pride once (each) in LFR. Where is the elitism from top players you're whining about coming from? It sure isn't coming from anyone I know. I mostly raid log nowadays (don't even cap VP) and play HS, Diablo 3 (the beta) and DotA.

I'm in a casual guild and even i don't care. Think the system is great now. If you did raid last tier you didn't need to go lfr at all. The upgrades were in best case very minor except for a few trinkets, and that shouldn't be enough for people to really care. I just do lfr because i enjoy trying to dps, instead of tanking, which i do in the raid.

[Viradiance]

ITT: Bads refusing to admit that they're the problem.

[Terridon]

No I was still correct there too. She may have edited. The post just said hindrance, which in fact they are.

Nopes. You wasn't. Now you're just coming with false claims. I did just take a look back. It wasn't edited.

[Firebert]

The more casuals take over, the more the game dies.

And the more money Blizzard makes, which is all that matters.

If you want a game with no casuals, go play Everquest.