Blizzard is making heroics harder than MoP : Good or Bad?

[StrayFox]

Great, so instead of wiping for an hour I'm spending an hour looking for a group in trade. That or take my chances with oQueue which is just a much of a toss-up as LFD. The system that's in place works fine, 5-mans aren't meant to be super hard, they're essentially Intro to Raiding 101, they are meant to be for learning your class properly in a group setting and learning not to stand in fire to create the most basic of a raider. The people going into LFR do not need to know how to CC or know pull orders.

No, the problem with Cata and MoP is they had no normal dungeons to do as an alternative. WoD will have normal dungeons at level 100.

Most people presume you do normal dungeons to get loot to gear up for LFR and you do Heroics to gear up for Normal Raids. Blizzard stated before that the mistake with Cata was there wasn't any alternative, you HAD to do heroics and they were way too hard for LFD.

Now a player looking only to do LFR can just que up for normal dungeons and gear that way. The rest that are looking for challenge and an easier way to gear up to do normal raids can do heroics.

[Santoryu]

The skill of players, or lack of it, is something game designers have to accept. It's a boundary condition, not a knob they can adjust. And whining about it doesn't accomplish squat.

I look at this completely differently.

In my opinion the game needs to have a standard to expect from its players to reach. If you can, fine. If not, try improving or stop playing. The game does not need to become worse in quality for everyone else because little Jeremy can't get instant epics.

[Demeia]

The skill of players, or lack of it, is something game designers have to accept. It's a boundary condition, not a knob they can adjust. And whining about it doesn't accomplish squat.

This is just an important point to understand. There are some players who feel "this is a game, I'm not prepared to work that hard at it". Blizzard must embrace those players even if they feel the hardest content can only be unwrapped by skilled gamers giving their all.

There's room for both in this game and if it comes down to only being room for one, then they should go all easy. They'll likely keep a bigger subscription base and make more money.




Bad logic is bad.

"The patient died during the operation, therefore he could not have had cancer."[/QUOTE]

[7seti]

This is just an important point to understand. There are some players who feel "this is a game, I'm not prepared to work that hard at it". Blizzard must embrace those players even if they feel the hardest content can only be unwrapped by skilled gamers giving their all.

There's room for both in this game and if it comes down to only being room for one, then they should go all easy. They'll likely keep a bigger subscription base and make more money.

Again:

As you know, WoD will (re)introduce the normal and heroic difficulties for 5man's at max level, which is already a very nice change in my opinion.

There will be two difficulties at level 100. Three if you count challenge modes. There is no need to design everything around the lowest common denominator.

[Raintola]

I quit for a while.

You're wrong.

Like he said, nobody.

But seriously, once people outgear 5 mans, they'll be back to the same AoE grinds as usual. Them being harder at the start isn't going to change that outcome, it'll only make it a pain in the ass for pugs.

[melodramocracy]

Arthas: I watch my tone with you, old man. I may be the prince, but you're still my superior as a paladin.

Uther: As if you could forget. Yes Arthas, there's something about the plague I should know. ...Oh no, it's already begun. These people may look fine now, but it's only a matter of time before they turn into the Undead!.......

Arthas: Who are these 5 people eavesdropping on our conversation? Creeping me out a bit.

Uther: I invited them, they're our audience. Stick to the script, son.

Sindragosa, flying over: Suffer mortals, as your pa-

Arthas: Shut up!! You're not supposed to be here yet!

Sindragosa: My bad.

Arthas: Time to get some answers.

Uther: *facepalm*

[rda]

How is that any different than LFD? Either you'll take whoever you can get (which is basically the exact same thing as LFD) or you'll have standards for your group and spend an hour or more making a group that is to your liking. Just keep the easy heroics, they've always just been a time-gate anyway.

Here's how it is different: you can check the ilvl / achievements / whatever of the person you are taking. Checking ilvl (or stats, if you'd rather check that) won't even require a chat, that's done now via an addon. And you won't spend an hour composing your group, because the tool works across servers.

[Santoryu]

There's room for both in this game and if it comes down to only being room for one, then they should go all easy. They'll likely keep a bigger subscription base and make more money.

This is so wrong it boggles the mind. Easy games cause people to get bored more quickly. If you get bored more quickly, you unsubscribe. Games that require you to invest in them and actually feel some accomplishment in the process will have you subscribed for a longer time and that will yield more money in the long run.

[melodramocracy]

If they're smart, they'll ensure that scenarios still exist and give out vp. That way, anyone feeling that these are too difficult / time consuming will have an alternate route.

This should, on paper, stem the river of tears.

[Raintola]

As long as they last longer than one tier of gear and scale up every content patch, fine. MoP heroics are a joke, no tank, no heal just pew pew everything like lfr.

MoP heroics were a joke. Cata heroics were a joke after the few nerfs, but they would've been anyway once people out-geared them. Same deal with Wrath and BC heroics. I don't think Blizzard intends for 5 mans to stay challenging for all players throughout an expansion. If everyone here's as good as they say they are, the gear won't last them very long either.

[Deleted]

Yeah, sure. But it won't last though - shit will get the nerf-bat within one patch and be piss-easy again. So don't get your hopes up.

[Raintola]

Yeah, sure. But it won't last though - shit will get the nerf-bat within one patch and be piss-easy again. So don't get your hopes up.

Or people will out-gear them within a month or two and go back to complaining about them being easy.

[Pengalor]

No, the problem with Cata and MoP is they had no normal dungeons to do as an alternative. WoD will have normal dungeons at level 100.

Most people presume you do normal dungeons to get loot to gear up for LFR and you do Heroics to gear up for Normal Raids. Blizzard stated before that the mistake with Cata was there wasn't any alternative, you HAD to do heroics and they were way too hard for LFD.

Now a player looking only to do LFR can just que up for normal dungeons and gear that way. The rest that are looking for challenge and an easier way to gear up to do normal raids can do heroics.

I...wat? Cata and MoP both had normals in the beginning. MoP had normals and LFR in the beginning. Fully normal mode hear was not enough to queue for LFR. No offense but have you even been playing the game? Unless they are increasing the ilvl dropped from normal (which would be stupid as it would make Heroics pretty pointless) or reduce the ilvl needed for LFR (also pretty stupid considering people in the correct ilvl NOW can't hardly perform) then it's going to be just like Cata.

[Heladys]

Mop heroics are too easy. It's prob because they were made for newly dinged 90's in 5.0 not now we have like 100+ ilevels since then >.<

That's what heroics are for. Heroic mode raiders whining that they're too easy is completely laughable.

[Romanthony]

The player base will complain they always do when heroics become easier/Harder

[madmanx]

If you feel this strongly about heroic dungeons you need to up your game a bit.

It is something you do a few times in the first patch of an xpac. After that they no longer serve a purpose if you guys are as pro as you think you are so who cares if they are hard or not?

[Deleted]

I voted awesome, allways loved cc`s....

[Pengalor]

Here's how it is different: you can check the ilvl / achievements / whatever of the person you are taking. Checking ilvl (or stats, if you'd rather check that) won't even require a chat, that's done now via an addon. And you won't spend an hour composing your group, because the tool works across servers.

That might work fine for the first week, have fun getting it done after that. Ilvl and achievements are not an indicator of skill, I don't know how long this game's fanbase is going to cling to it but it's been shown to be wrong time and time again. Maybe you'll get better chance of quality players with higher ilvl or the achieves but the higher the ilvl of the player the less likely they'll be to be queueing for heroic dungeons instead of LFR or doing normal raids, hence the insane wait time.

[Firebert]

And the goalposts move from hunter cc to dk.

Because I'm only allowed to use Hunters to counter your arguments. /ohyou

Says who? You? Since when are players arbiters of such things?

Since the blues said that such content should be doable in a lunch break.

My point stands.

What point?

You're complaining that cooldowns on cc are such that you shouldn't need to use them often.

If they were required more often the cooldown would come down. As it stands Blizzard only want me to do a trash pack every 30-45s, which directly contradicts the speed implicitly required from the LFD tool.

[Pengalor]

If you feel this strongly about heroic dungeons you need to up your game a bit.

It is something you do a few times in the first patch of an xpac. After that they no longer serve a purpose if you guys are as pro as you think you are so who cares if they are hard or not?

I don't know about you but I don't like being gated even longer just because I'm being held back by stupid people. If people could perform half-decently then I'd be fine with it but they can't so I'm not. I've already done week 1 Heroics with MoP, it's horrible and it only gets worse as more of the better people move on.