Were the atomic bombs so bad?

[Eläin]

I have never, ever condoned the Iraq War. These situations are also not analogous in any way.

But it follows the same path of thinking. Bad guys (saudis , japanese officials), civilians (iraqis , japanese people) and then measuring their value of existance against a misinformed war plan ending in atrocities.

[DEATHETERNAL]

You sure read a lot more into what I said than I intended. I was merely pointing out that its not as simple as some people are saying.

I wasn't really specifically addressing you with it, but everyone who had stated sentiment related to Japan either going to surrender (some, not you but others, saying it was already a foregone conclusion) or likely to surrender due to Russian advances anyway. Yours was just the first I saw. I wasn't trying to specifically say that what you said was stupid or wrong. It isn't as simple as some make it out to be just as you said. Despite that though, the final conclusion remains the same.

[Tierbook]

I am sure all the people here on mmo are more intelligent than the military generals and president who gave the order to drop the nukes who certainly realized that Japan would roll over and play dead after having done the exact opposite for the past few years in bloody conflict

[Spectral]

But it follows the same path of thinking. Bad guys (saudis , japanese officials), civilians (iraqis , japanese people) and then measuring their value of existance against a misinformed war plan ending in atrocities.

I have no idea how you think using a WMD against a nation that initiated war is analogous to attacking a country that had absolutely nothing to do with a terrorist attack. If you were looking for the two wars of the last century that had the least in common, that'd probably be it.

[Teriz]

Given the fact that we were looking at a million plus civilian casualties via a land invasion of Japan, I think the atom bombs were a good decision.

[time0ut]

I wasn't really specifically addressing you with it, but everyone who had stated sentiment related to Japan either going to surrender (some, not you but others, saying it was already a foregone conclusion) or likely to surrender due to Russian advances anyway. Yours was just the first I saw. I wasn't trying to specifically say that what you said was stupid or wrong.

Ok, cool. Just clarifying cause I am actually of the same opinion as you.

[Deleted]

the Empire of Japan would have not surrendered without nuclear bombs, they would've fight to the death. Casualties in land invasion of Japan would've been massive propably atleast 5 times that of what died in nuclear attacks.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry, I'm not always super up-to-date on history or current events, but did we start a war with al-Qaeda by launching a surprise attack on one of their naval bases?

It's not even apples to oranges, it's apples to fricken play-doh. I'm sorry, but do you at least feel the stupid coming out when you type?

don't include me as 'we', i'm english, and you weren't in the war. and no, but al-Qaeda was formed mainly due to U.S. forces being in the middle east, so if we're going by who started it, it's fucking ambiguous at best.

and you're right, it really isn't slightly similar at all. less than 5,000 civilians dead in 9/11, at least 150,000 dead in japan as a result of the two bombings, you figure it out. like it or not, the U.S. killed more japanese civilians with the atomic bombs than al-Qaeda did in 9/11. besides your basic ability to do maths, you also lack the basic ability to be civil, so if you do respond, don't be a dick about it

[Sunseeker]

They were better than the alternatives. But that's not saying much since the alternatives were pretty shitty options themselves.

[DarkTZeratul]

and you're right, it really isn't slightly similar at all. less than 5,000 civilians dead in 9/11, at least 150,000 dead in japan as a result of the two bombings, you figure it out. like it or not, the U.S. killed more japanese civilians with the atomic bombs than al-Qaeda did in 9/11.

I don't think anyone is contesting that, so I have no idea why you're arguing it.

[Deleted]

Atomic bombs gave us great songs like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCGoOPM2_x0

However you tend to forget: not only did many people die and a war end, but that the consequence of the bombs were a world filled with anxiety of "the end", in decades to follow. It wasn't very joyful living, after seeing what destruction could fall upon men any second.

[Zamfix]

I find it quite silly to debate counterfactual history.

I think either alternative would have been monstrous, dropping the bombs sure was regardless.

[xenogear3]

That is nothing.
With today's technology, one or two bombs can destroy the entire Earth.

[DarkTZeratul]

That is nothing.
With today's technology, one or two bombs can destroy the entire Earth.

This isn't even remotely true. It's theoretically conceivable that one or two bombs, properly designed and placed, could render large swathes of the planet uninhabitable (if only briefly), but the technology to actually destroy the planet itself is quite beyond us.

[Notos]

They were better than the alternatives. But that's not saying much since the alternatives were pretty shitty options themselves.

It actually says a lot about how shitty the alternatives were if nukes were the better option.

The details of how the cities were selected for bombing escape me at the moment, but I think they maybe could have picked military targets instead. I don't have much sympathy for the japanese troops after the atrocities they committed before and during the war.

That is nothing.
With today's technology, one or two bombs can destroy the entire Earth.

Uhh nope, completely false.

[Deleted]

I don't think anyone is contesting that, so I have no idea why you're arguing it.

i was comparing the two attacks, the response was to compare apples to play-doh, implying they are not at all similar (with the previous part claiming that japan started it, so they deserve it?) i switched the two around, pointing out one even was a lot more extreme than the other, but not the ones that (s)he implied.

(s)he didn't specifically argue against that fact, but the reply seemed to be of the notion that japan somehow deserved it, so i thought i'd bring up numbers

[Zalavaaris]

You realize that the Japanese were in the process of surrender right? The were willing to agree to a peaceful surrender under "conditions". These conditions were that they were allowed to keep their emperor for religious purposes... The US decided that they wanted a unconditional surrender and chose to bomb them.... oh.. and also let them keep their emperor anyway... So yea..... the bombs WERE that bad....

[Tzalix]

The war was basically already won. Whether or not the bombs served to shorten the war, thus reducing the total number of casualties, is difficult to determine. This doesn't change the fact that the atomic bomb is a most cruel weapon, and I cannot see it's usage as anything other than a war crime.

[DarkTZeratul]

i was comparing the two attacks, the response was to compare apples to play-doh, implying they are not at all similar (with the previous part claiming that japan started it, so they deserve it?) i switched the two around, pointing out one even was a lot more extreme than the other, but not the ones that (s)he implied.

(s)he didn't specifically argue against that fact, but the reply seemed to be of the notion that japan somehow deserved it, so i thought i'd bring up numbers

The two attacks AREN'T at all similar. They really are apples and play-doh. It's an absolutely terrible comparison that really doesn't do much except to suggest you don't really understand the subject matter.

[Sunseeker]

The details of how the cities were selected for bombing escape me at the moment, but I think they maybe could have picked military targets instead. I don't have much sympathy for the japanese troops after the atrocities they committed before and during the war.

Japan didn't have purely military anything. Like most countries, especially small ones, military infrastructure was built right in and around civilian housing.