Study confirms the idea that schools should have armed/trained security.

[SpcGuts]

The idea is that these rights were given to us by a higher power, call it whatever you want. Something more than a King or Emperor. Something that can't be taken away.

The Constitution is open to interpretation. It has even been called a "living, breathing document" by some.

The Constitution was ratified 1788. The first 10 amendments (Including your precious Second) wasn't ratified until 1791.

The Eighteenth Amendment was ratified in 1919. In 1933, we decided the Eighteenth Amendment was a mistake and repealed it with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment.

As for the Second Amendment, it has been the subject of much debate. Let's take a look at it.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This ambiguous wording as been interpreted two ways. One, is that the right to keep and bear arms is only held by people in well regulated militias (state run militias). The other is that the right is to keep and bear arms is separate from the militia part.

It wasn't until 2008 in District of Columbia v. Heller that it was finally decided that the "well regulated militia" part meant "nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training" and not any type of military service.

This interpretation can still be changed by future rulings of the Supreme Court. So your "God given right" wasn't even the "right" you thought it was until 2008.

[Heineken]

You called people traitors for disagreeing with your particular view on the government.

If you're actively trying route the 2nd amendment, which is the law of the land, you are a traitor.

[Felya]

I guess you know when they're attacking you that you're doing something right.

Does that work with authority? How about those arguing with you? I figured the ultimate goal is to leave them speechless... But, I'm all about theatrics...

[Wells]

If you're actively trying route the 2nd amendment, which is the law of the land, you are a traitor.

A: No.
B: That's not what a traitor is.

[Heineken]

A: No.
B: That's not what a traitor is.

A: yes, it is in fact the law of the land.
B: a person who betrays a friend, COUNTRY, principle, etc.

[Felya]

If you're actively trying route the 2nd amendment, which is the law of the land, you are a traitor.

Also true when using a gun you have to protect your self from a government, as you intend. Your whole argument is based on being a traitor, when government over steps it's boundaries. He is a traitor because he feels that in his opinion the country would be a better place, you would be a traitor because you are shooting people... Perspective...

[Heineken]

Also true when using a gun you have to protect your self from a government, as you intend. Your whole argument is based on being a traitor, when government over steps it's boundaries. He is a traitor because he feels that in his opinion the country would be a better place, you would be a traitor because you are shooting people... Perspective...

"when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

[Cthulhu 2020]

What about the 14th amendment, and the 16th, how do you feel about the right to vote without needing an ID, or the government's right to levy and collect taxes.

[Heineken]

What about the 14th amendment, and the 16th, how do you feel about the right to vote without needing an ID, or the government's right to levy and collect taxes.

I didn't know I was running for President.

[Felya]

Let's be very clear on this traitor part. When you rise up against the government, who are you shooting? American citizens? American troops? American police? Which Americans do you think will be killed?

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"when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

So you will start shooting Americans when you feel abused?

[Heineken]

Let's be very clear on this traitor part. When you rise up against the government, who are you shooting? American citizens? American troops? American police? Which Americans do you think will be killed?

Who said anything about rising up? God bless that's the last thing this nation needs right now is a revolt. All people want is to be secure in their rights.

[Skroe]

gun ownership is not just a hobby, and the right to own one is no small matter, nor is it solely supported by "gun nuts" as its so eloquently been put so many times. in fact many gun rights supporters don't even own guns themselves, myself being one of them. and i know atleast 6 people who feel the same way i do who also do not own firearms. but thats our choice. we choose not to own one. and if i feel like changing my mind i'll go get one. this is called freedom.

Oh it's not a small matter. It's the moral issue of our time. Most things about guns... and gun owners (the people themselves) are bullshit. They're dishonest about cold, hard data that inconveniences them. They live in a reality detached from the rest of the world that looks at us like we're nuts. And like addicts, they make excuses as to why their habbit isn't harmful, but rather helpful.

Rational people don't say the solution to preventing more Kindergartens of 20 children being blown away is to Arm every teacher. That's madness. That's like saying the solution to getting STDs unprotected sex is to give everyone the STD ahead of time. Yes. It's that bad.

Moral issue? It comes down to this: should an American have the right to kill another American. I believe under no circumstances should that be allowed. Courts - and due process - can do that, and even that process (Capital Punishment) is flawed. But even flawed, it's a process - a system - designed to make what society thinks is the right decision (even if it isnt, or is made for the wrong reasons). But it goes through appeals and so many hands before life is deprived. A citizen on his own should never have that power. Ever. Not even to protect his own life or those of his family or anyone else. While when having to choose between the life of a law abiding citizen or a criminal, no one would choose criminal, it is society that should make that determination, not the citizen.

It's really that simple. If you support the Second Amendment, you support the freedom for Americans to render judgement and kill each other extra-judiciously, based on questionable laws like "Stand Your Ground".

I think that's horrific. I think future Americans will, having repealed the Second Amendment, look back shamefully on how Americans in this time period fetishize guns and excuse their ownership, in a way not different from how we look back at slavery.

But that's my approach to Gun Control. I don't care for the assent of Gun Owners. Gun Control - and the eventual elimination of the Second Amendment - needs to be something that happens to them... it needs to be an event in their lives. It should not be a compromise. That is the justified price for gun supporters moral and intellectual dishonesty.

One day. Not soon... but one day.

[Felya]

Who said anything about rising up? God bless that's the last thing this nation needs right now is a revolt. All people want is to be secure in their rights.

How would guns defend those rights without rising up? Which Americans will be shot in securing their rights?

I'm saying it's an absurd concept that guns would stop the US army. It saying, beyond killing other Americans, your guns will have no effect on the government.

[Heineken]

So you will start shooting Americans when you feel abused?

Of course not. But nobody is taking away our rights. That's all this is about here and all I'm speaking to.

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How would guns defend those rights without rising up? Which Americans will be shot in securing their rights?

It's self defense, nothing more. We will keep our 2nd amendment and our 1st.

[Skroe]

Who said anything about rising up? God bless that's the last thing this nation needs right now is a revolt. All people want is to be secure in their rights.

Well here's your problem. Some people (gun owners) want to be secure in their right.

Plenty of other Americans - like me for instance - want to take your "right" from you and smile while do it. Let's be very clear about this: you argue on behalf of a subset / subculture of Americans, not all Americans. Gun owners need to understand that very, very clearly: lots of their countrymen share a real serious difference of opinion with you. What you call a right, I call a worthless piece of historical scrap, mostly defended by the uneducated or fantasists.

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It's self defense, nothing more. We will keep our 2nd amendment and our 1st.

So we can expect you to arm yourself at all times around family members?

[satimy]

Well here's your problem. Some people (gun owners) want to be secure in their right.

Plenty of other Americans - like me for instance - want to take your "right" from you and smile while do it. Let's be very clear about this: you argue on behalf of a subset / subculture of Americans, not all Americans. Gun owners need to understand that very, very clearly: lots of their countrymen share a real serious difference of opinion with you. What you call a right, I call a worthless piece of historical scrap, mostly defended by the uneducated or fantasists.

Do you actually think youre going to repeal the second amendment? Is that a joke, youre better off moving to France.

[Felya]

Of course not. But nobody is taking away our rights. That's all this is about here and all I'm speaking to.

It's self defense, nothing more. We will keep our 2nd amendment and our 1st.

Who are you defending your self from that you will be shooting? You are ignoring the people who will be shot in your feared government over reach. You will not be shooting some entity called government...

[Heineken]

Well here's your problem. Some people (gun owners) want to be secure in their right.

Plenty of other Americans - like me for instance - want to take your "right" from you and smile while do it. Let's be very clear about this: you argue on behalf of a subset / subculture of Americans, not all Americans. Gun owners need to understand that very, very clearly: lots of their countrymen share a real serious difference of opinion with you. What you call a right, I call a worthless piece of historical scrap, mostly defended by the uneducated or fantasists.

And when that time comes I will happily leave this country and renounce my citizenship. I refuse to live in a nation that I am viewed as a criminal for defending myself. But you will have your socialist utopia. Or should I call it Fascist?

Those who refuse to learn history are doomed to repeat it. I'll be no part of it.

[Felya]

Do you actually think youre going to repeal the second amendment? Is that a joke, youre better off moving to France.

It shouldn't be repealed, there are plenty of common sense ways to regulate, while maintaining legality.

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And when that time comes I will happily leave this country and renounce my citizenship. I refuse to live in a nation that I am viewed as a criminal for defending myself. But you will have your socialist utopia. Or should I call it Fascist?

Those who refuse to learn history are doomed to repeat it. I'll be no part of it.

If you give a shit about history, you wouldn't be bringing up fascist in a gun debate.

[Sole-Warrior]

Well here's your problem. Some people (gun owners) want to be secure in their right.

Plenty of other Americans - like me for instance - want to take your "right" from you and smile while do it. Let's be very clear about this: you argue on behalf of a subset / subculture of Americans, not all Americans. Gun owners need to understand that very, very clearly: lots of their countrymen share a real serious difference of opinion with you. What you call a right, I call a worthless piece of historical scrap, mostly defended by the uneducated or fantasists.

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So we can expect you to arm yourself at all times around family members?

Wise guy, you do realize that out right banning these guns could potentially lead to increase in black market revenue right? In this country the out right banning of drugs have lead to increase funding of drugs through the black market. There are about 200-300 million fire arms in this country, how are you going to get rid of them all?

The solution is common sense regulation on guns, like background checks and special licensing for any high powered weapon.