Huolon "Griefing" - Your thoughts?

[Deleted]

They don't have to sue you for breaking their ToS, doesn't mean they can't. Since they've done it in the past, and won the cases.
They don't sue you for griefing on a mob. They sue you if you break the TOS at a larger scale, keyword Glider Software. Or bot programming.

This is BS. MDY, the company behind glider, was sued over copyright infringements, interference with Blizzard’s contracts with its users and monetary damages, not over breaking the TOS.

Like people said before, breaking *only* the rules in game will never be illegal - as in 'breaking the law' - at best it will be a breach of contract.

[Nefarious Tea]

It's a bad fix. Now there will be little time to run to him, and the only way to get a kill will be to camp him.

The correct fix would be to have him unattackable until he gets close to the intended combat point. At least that way you have time from the first person announcing him for you to be able to get there.

That's true for every mob on this island. If you're not there when it spawns, don't even bother trying.

Like people said before, breaking *only* the rules in game will never be illegal - as in 'breaking the law' - at best it will be a breach of contract.

Newsflash: breach of contract IS illegal.

[Oftenwrongsoong]

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are this topic is irrelevant now.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/11944164#feb5

Huolon's spawn point has been moved to the ground.

[cherb]

That's true for every mob on this island. If you're not there when it spawns, don't even bother trying.



Newsflash: breach of contract IS illegal.

Breaking the ToS of a video game is not even close to breaking a contract. Breaking the ToS of an online game is not and has never been illegal.

[Bearmaster]

I really do not understand the MMO-Champ community sometimes, most people here seem to be siding with the people doing this bull****. How can you not condemn this behavior? If you go to the trouble of going outside the isle, mount up than glide down to an specific spot just to grief people, it is wrong no matter how you or blizzard sees it. Blizzard will make whatever rules they want until people protest them. Blizzard will not change this sort of rules if the community does not condemn this type of behavior. This is like saying that is someone sits right outside the door of your house, and does not let you pass, it is fine because the person is in the street therefore not doing anything illegal ? What the community is saying here is, jump the fence, find a different way to get out.... you people !!!!

[zorkuus]

I really do not understand the MMO-Champ community sometimes, most people here seem to be siding with the people doing this bull****. How can you not condemn this behavior?

They're the ones propably doing it.

[Wildtree]

This is BS. MDY, the company behind glider, was sued over copyright infringements, interference with Blizzard’s contracts with its users and monetary damages, not over breaking the TOS.

Like people said before, breaking *only* the rules in game will never be illegal - as in 'breaking the law' - at best it will be a breach of contract.

Let's look, shall we?
Simplified:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terms_of_service

The terms-of-service agreement is mainly used for legal purposes by websites and internet service providers that store a user's personal data, such as e-commerce and Social networking services. A legitimate terms-of-service agreement is legally binding, and may be subject to change

And to get a little deeper into juristic details, this is another good source:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...ing+Agreements


Now, we have to also have to account for region and country. Laws vary. In some countries the terms of use/service may include paragraphs that are outright against existing law. These paragraphs will however not make the entire paper invalid, but rather make the applicable paragraphs null and void, as if they weren't written in the paper.

Regarding MDY: They were actually sued over EULA infringement, the federal court ruled that it was also copyright infringement....

Here's the latest case where Blizz took legal action:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/10/18/48...g-fan-software

The court agreed with Blizzard's contention that the bots constituted tortious interference with contractual relations under California law. That is, Ceiling Fan knowingly sold software that was a violation of World of Warcraft's terms of use, which is a legal contract between World of Warcraft players and Blizzard.

So yes, there we have it.... The TOU/TOS is in fact a binding legal contract.
Blizzard doesn't sue players because it would cost them more on fees and lawyer costs than there is to get from the average player. They simply punish you on grounds of terms violation, and toss the ball into your court. You are then free to sue them, which you will not succeed with, since you breached the contract.

[Toffie]

This Is what I hate about the gaming community.. How can people be so childish to spend their time to get up to the highest tower just to mess with people? Does It turn people on to annoy people? Pathetic, really pathetic.

[Sforza]

Yeah keep reporting them, maybe they will ban them for actually... wait for it.... playing the game.
Same as ganking, if u cant take the heat, this is NOT your game.

[Wildtree]

This Is what I hate about the gaming community.. How can people be so childish to spend their time to get up to the highest tower just to mess with people? Does It turn people on to annoy people? Pathetic, really pathetic.

A rather brutal yet simple explanation of this phenomenon...
There are people that are either failures in life, or their life itself is so miserable, that they have zero happiness or rather a lack thereof. They are sad beings, and their resort of remorse is, when they can make other people "suffer", and if it's only such small thing as grieving in a video game.
That's the entire reason why there are bullies.
Someone said, bullies are victims too.. And it makes sense. They suffer in a field others usually do not know about. And they have to - for their own sake - let it out on others, who they believe can be used as target.

[Toffie]

Yeah keep reporting them, maybe they will ban them for actually... wait for it.... playing the game.
Same as ganking, if u cant take the heat, this is NOT your game.

So stealing loot is playing the game? You are exactly whats wrong with the toxic community.

[Wildtree]

/internet high five!

lol...... just having fun debunking internet jerks myth of being untouchable

[Stormdash]

There is absolutely no reason to do that other than to be a jackass. In fact, complex effort to go out of your way to be a jackass. Whether it was bannable or not is moot since Blizzard just broke it, there is something already kind of broken if this is anyone's idea of a good time.

[Warlord Booty]

I don't see a problem. You have a spawn, you camp the spawn, you kill it. Nothing sucks more than being squishy and tanking a rare and more people come to the point that you can't tank him anymore and die from it. So, take him up there so you can be at peace.

Oh, and I has mount, so.... don't really bother with the call outs anymore.

No different that camping for the Ruby Droplet. You can blow that guy up in about 4 CDs and sure as hell can't get up there quick and some people still don't know about the birds.

[Lalicat]

Looks like Blizzard agreed that it's griefing/not acceptable conduct, and have altered the spawn location.

Patch 5.4.2 Hotfixes: February 5

Creatures - Huolon's spawn point has been moved to the ground.

[Shakazu]

There is absolutely no reason to do that other than to be a jackass. In fact, complex effort to go out of your way to be a jackass. Whether it was bannable or not is moot since Blizzard just broke it, there is something already kind of broken if this is anyone's idea of a good time.

Couldn't agree more!

[freighttrain]

Actually the EULA and ToS are legally binding contracts. One of the common definitions for legal is allowed by the law or the rules of the game. An slashing call is an illegal move by a hockey player. Touching the ball with your hand is an illegal move in Soccer (football). Legal and Illegal don't just deal with government issued rules.

Correct they are legally binding contracts. Backed by laws. Blizzard can take action legally against people who break said rules. The police cannot arrest anyone violating said rules. Breaking game rules is not breaking the law. They are completely different.

[Deleted]

Correct they are legally binding contracts. Backed by laws. Blizzard can take action legally against people who break said rules. The police cannot arrest anyone violating said rules. Breaking game rules is not breaking the law. They are completely different.

In many EU countries you could argue and win in court that the EULA is invalid due to EU laws protecting consumers

[freighttrain]

Not legally binding ... they can't sue you for breaking their ToS.

Being a legal agreement does not require the ability to sue in order to be legally binding.

- - - Updated - - -

Being a legal agreement does not require the ability to sue in order to be legally binding.

I am certain many of you have signed arbitration clauses saying that you cannot sue your employer and that conflicts or disagreements will be handled by an arbitrator. Those documents are legally binding and neither you nor your employer can sue if they do not like the end result of arbitration.

- - - Updated - - -

In many EU countries you could argue and win in court that the EULA is invalid due to EU laws protecting consumers

I wish we had consumer protections in the US.

[Scinder]

In many EU countries you could argue and win in court that the EULA is invalid due to EU laws protecting consumers

If that was the case then the company that attempted to sue Blizzard for banning their botting program would not have lost and would have 4 million more dollars in their pockets.

So I don't see that really happening.