0.23% of Players Defeated Heroic Garrosh

[cabyio]

Haha! Good one! You are competing against an unchanging, scripted event that is decided by Blizzard who will nerf the encounter if your skill is not up to the task.

True enough, competition against an "unchanging, scripted event" is nothing compared to competition against a real person, but it is a challenge to be overcome. Also, I have never had to wait for a blizzard nerf to beat a boss. Also, every raid group I've been in has some level of internal competition. It keeps people doing their best.

[Requital]

Really? I don't know many raid guilds that are tolerant of players who say "sorry can't raid tonight I'm running LFR with Bob."

So you want to be able to waste 24 other peoples time so you can run lfr? Ya sorry I wouldn't want you in my guild to raid with that attitude. That isn't a game issue that is a you issue there is a difference. If you play with 24 other people you have to respect their time as they do yours.

Sounds like you would be better off playing a single player game where you can come and go as you please.

[cFortyfive]

Im not sure what you are saying here - Do you mean that people without friends cannot advance into decent guilds because of gear disparities? Lets be honest here. If you are not doing heroic raiding, you don't really need gear above what, 510? Maybe 530 for stickler flex 4 groups?

I am pretty sure that the person wasn't only referring to heroic content but to content overall. I'd believe that it is even easier to join heroic groups undergeared when having the right attitude than joining random groups.

So what your saying is you just stereotype top end raiders but don't actually know anything about them?

context please.

[Firebert]

Yeah, let's feed the entitled complex even more. That'll work out great.

It has for every other game in history, what makes WoW any different?

[Pann]

So you want to be able to waste 24 other peoples time so you can run lfr? Ya sorry I wouldn't want you in my guild to raid with that attitude. That isn't a game issue that is a you issue there is a difference. If you play with 24 other people you have to respect their time as they do yours.

Sounds like you would be better off playing a single player game where you can come and go as you please.

So you are agreed that a raid guild would not tolerate this? As such it is not possible to "pursue either direction" as the person I replied to claimed?

To be honest it would be better if you bothered to read the posts you reply to before telling people what they would be better off doing.

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True enough, competition against an "unchanging, scripted event" is nothing compared to competition against a real person, but it is a challenge to be overcome. Also, I have never had to wait for a blizzard nerf to beat a boss. Also, every raid group I've been in has some level of internal competition. It keeps people doing their best.

The challenge is not there to test your ability or skills it is there to keep you running the same content for as along as possible and therefore maximise Blizzard's profits.

Infracted.

[cabyio]

So you are agreed that a raid guild would not tolerate this? As such it is not possible to "pursue either direction" as the person I replied to claimed?

To be honest it would be better if you bothered to read the posts you reply to before telling people what they would be better off doing.

Why would it ever be socially acceptable to ditch 24 people in a scheduled event for an off the cuff deal to help 1 person?

[brunnor]

Really? I don't know many raid guilds that are tolerant of players who say "sorry can't raid tonight I'm running LFR with Bob."

Of course they wouldn't be. By joining a raiding guild, you agree to a specific set of times in which you devote to the guild. This is done so that you don't screw over the other 9 or 24 people you are supposed to be playing with.

You have to decide for yourself what you want out of the game. Majority of people seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. Since this isn't a single player game, you can't have everything exactly how you want it at the cost of other players. So thus there are choices you have to make to get the most out of your play time. If you value running LFR with "Bob", then being in a raiding guild is something you have to sacrifice. If you want to kill heroic bosses, then LFR with "bob" has to be the sacrifice.

Not everything can be exactly like you want in a multi-player setting.

[Pann]

Why would it ever be socially acceptable to ditch 24 people in a scheduled event for an off the cuff deal to help 1 person?

Why don't you go and take that up with the person that said it was possible to play with friends as well as being a raider?

[brunnor]

So you are agreed that a raid guild would not tolerate this? As such it is not possible to "pursue either direction" as the person I replied to claimed?

It is possible to pursue either direction, just not at the same time/place. Both options are equally available to you, just not at once.

[Pann]

Of course they wouldn't be. By joining a raiding guild, you agree to a specific set of times in which you devote to the guild. This is done so that you don't screw over the other 9 or 24 people you are supposed to be playing with.

You have to decide for yourself what you want out of the game. Majority of people seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. Since this isn't a single player game, you can't have everything exactly how you want it at the cost of other players. So thus there are choices you have to make to get the most out of your play time. If you value running LFR with "Bob", then being in a raiding guild is something you have to sacrifice. If you want to kill heroic bosses, then LFR with "bob" has to be the sacrifice.

Not everything can be exactly like you want in a multi-player setting.

Please actually read what is being said before replying.

[cabyio]

Why don't you go and take that up with the person that said it was possible to play with friends as well as being a raider?

You have many hours in the week... you cannot help them some other time? Seems like you're hunting for issues.

[Pann]

It is possible to pursue either direction, just not at the same time/place. Both options are equally available to you, just not at once.

In other words not really possible then? Or are you suggesting that a raid guild would be happy if I spent half my time with them and the other with Bob? Or do you think they would replace me if I was only available for half the raids? And do you think that Bob would think that I was a pretty shitty friend for abandoning him in pursuit of purple pixels if I chose the raid guild over him?

[cabyio]

In other words not really possible then? Or are you suggesting that a raid guild would be happy if I spent half my time with them and the other with Bob? Or do you think they would replace me if I was only available for half the raids? And do you think that Bob would think that I was a pretty shitty friend for abandoning him in pursuit of purple pixels if I chose the raid guild over him?

What is your problem? Why does time with bob always have to clash with raiding time? Can't bob be helped before raid, or after raid, or on a different day from raiding? At this point you are just trying to find an issue. The same problem crops up anytime you have a scheduled group activity, you have to budget your time around that activity.

[Pann]

You have many hours in the week... you cannot help them some other time? Seems like you're hunting for issues.

I don't know you'll have to ask Bob why he can only play when I want to raid.

On a serious note raiding is a time intensive activity that usually requires playing uninterrupted for three or four hours two or three times a week which does make it hard if not impossible for players to play with friends that are not into raiding.

[brunnor]

In other words not really possible then? Or are you suggesting that a raid guild would be happy if I spent half my time with them and the other with Bob? Or do you think they would replace me if I was only available for half the raids? And do you think that Bob would think that I was a pretty shitty friend for abandoning him in pursuit of purple pixels if I chose the raid guild over him?

It is very possible to do both. With a touch of reasonable scheduling, you can easily meet your raiding requirements as well as do LFR with Bob.

If Bob randomly shows up in the middle of your raid and demands you do LFR with him right then or else he'll never talk to you again, the problem is with Bob and not how the game is set up.

[Pann]

What is your problem? Why does time with bob always have to clash with raiding time? Can't bob be helped before raid, or after raid, or on a different day from raiding? At this point you are just trying to find an issue. The same problem crops up anytime you have a scheduled group activity, you have to budget your time around that activity.

Duude. Bob is a busy man.

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It is very possible to do both. With a touch of reasonable scheduling, you can easily meet your raiding requirements as well as do LFR with Bob.

If Bob randomly shows up in the middle of your raid and demands you do LFR with him right then or else he'll never talk to you again, the problem is with Bob and not how the game is set up.

So now I not only have to schedule my own time around raiding but my friend's as well? Do you see why many do not want to be involved with raiding?

[Santoryu]

The students are not paying customers.

Ever heard of tuition and student loans?

It has for every other game in history, what makes WoW any different?

How has it worked out for wow? The game is in an awful state due to blizzard bending over to the entitled players.

Both cannot be true!

sigh...let me present it in a way that's more clear: the causality of design changes isn't immediate, which means that WOTLK is not why subs peaked, but what happened before wrath's launch caused the subs to peak shortly after the 2nd expansion.

When you're vaccinated against TBC, the antibodies don't form that second but it takes weeks for them to develop in sufficient quantities.

Does that make sense now?

So now I not only have to schedule my own time around raiding but my friend's as well? Do you see why many do not want to be involved with raiding?

So don't get involved in it, do LFR. Don't ruin other people's experience because you can't be assed to play the game properly.

[cFortyfive]

Well to go with the silliness as Bob obviously is your best friend and maybe even domestic partner so you obviously will have to make the choice to spend either more time with him or your other friends. Having to make decisions about which activity to pursue should be pretty common though and certainly not limited to this game.

[Pann]

sigh...let me present it in a way that's more clear: the causality of design changes isn't immediate, which means that WOTLK is not why subs peaked, but what happened before wrath's launch caused the subs to peak shortly after the 2nd expansion.

When you're vaccinated against TBC, the antibodies don't form that second but it takes weeks for them to develop in sufficient quantities.

Does that make sense now?

Wrath would have been finished or close to by the time the Activision Blizzard happened in which case Activision could not be responsible for making the game more casual. Wrath also peaked again before the launch of Cata, over two years after the merger, so things could have gone horribly wrong the moment after it.

No.

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Well to go with the silliness as Bob obviously is your best friend and maybe even domestic partner so you obviously will have to make the choice to spend either more time with him or your other friends. Having to make decisions about which activity to pursue should be pretty common though and certainly not limited to this game.

Do you not see it as a problem when the game forces you to make that choice?

[Santoryu]

Wrath also peaked again before the launch of Cata, over two years after the merger, so things could have gone horribly wrong the moment after it.

But it never reached the 12 million again. And I wonder why the subs went up before an expansion hit.

Do you not see it as a problem when the game forces you to make that choice?

I'm finding it strenuously hard to take you seriously. Are you saying choices in a game are bad? You either do this or that - you can't do 2 things at once.

You also can't practice 10 sports at the same time, you need to pick out the ones that FIT IN YOUR DAMN SCHEDULE.