If Loot was to be removed from LFR, would you still do it?

[Deleted]

Eeeuh no, this is simply not true. You could very well have a HC version that would not drop loot but was just there for the challenge. It would be tuned to people having current normal gear and nothing less. It would even work better then removing the lfr gear.

Progression implies that you actually progress higher in levels of gear requirement - That you do not remain static.

I.e your counter-argument fails by default.

[Zantos]

Not at all. Even with the legendary I barely tanked LFR. I still wont tank LFR. Even if upgrades are there I wont. I rather dps on an alt then tank it. Even then, I can only put up with the trolls pulling extra trash, pulling the boss, or just plain trying everything to wipe us for so long before I quit.

[Deleted]

Progression implies that you actually progress higher in levels of gear requirement - That you do not remain static.

I.e your counter-argument fails by default.

No progression means you progress. You can progress in different ways, one way is beating bosses. What you are saying would imply that if your guild killed garrosh and you did not get any gear that you would not have had progress.

[Honkeymagoo]

Absolutely! LFR is an invaluable tool for getting a boss fight down really well and min/maxing. Helps me get in the zone when it matters so I can get ranking parses. If I'm going to have to tank current content but haven't done so yet I'll do a run through LFR and learn the fights to not waste time with explanations and wiping caused by lack of experience. You can choose to ignore mechanics though, so the benefit of experience varies from person to person. I've actually run the same LFR over and over in the same week to learn new specs.

LFR could really help a lot of people not make an ass out of themselves in pugs/trials.

That said, I'll stop running it after the first few weeks unless I need gear.

[Thelxi]

They have already practically removed LFR loot from the game. I don't even do it on my alts anymore. 528 gear lmao.

[reckoner04]

LFR is endgame for some, but it isn't intended to be afaik. It's supposed to offer players the possibility to see the current content if they otherwise couldn't. I think the loot rewarded should be the same gear that drops in dungeons (though that creates minor lore issues) or none at all.

The reward should be to see the content, that's why it has been implemented in the first place. If that alone isn't enough to make the feature valuable, then this reason has been nonsensical from the start and LFR should be removed. And that's what the poll seems to tell us, though the MMOC community is extremely biased.

If LFR gets removed as alternative endgame (which it currently is to many) or removed completely (unlikely), another sort of endgame for the demographic who considers current LFR their endgame would have to be introduced. Dungeons, for example (beside scenarios), which would incidentally lead us back to where we were before...

[Deleted]

No progression means you progress. You can progress in different ways, one way is beating bosses. What you are saying would imply that if your guild killed garrosh and you did not get any gear that you would not have had progress.

"Heroic is all about difficulty progression, and gear only exists in the game to allow difficulty to be tuned up for harder content (Gear = Player Power)."

A difficulty that remains static based on "normal gear and nothing more" is not progressive difficulty by definition.

Bringing in semantics and twisting in the "What if's" "But what's" and "Who wha's" doesn't remove your earlier claims and the argument you try to actually pull that is in itself void and null.

[TheWindWalker]

"Heroic is all about difficulty progression, and gear only exists in the game to allow difficulty to be tuned up for harder content (Gear = Player Power)."

A difficulty that remains static based on "normal gear and nothing more" is not progressive difficulty by definition.

I'm sorry but have you never heard of the "World's First" race? You do realize that with the tight timeframe and lockout extending near the end that those guilds beat the heroic bosses while substancially lower ilvl than most "hardcore heroic raiding guilds" will do because they did so within a two to three weeks (after finishing normal mode) max, right?

You could technically beat Normal Garrosh with less than a 530 ilvl across the entire raid team and be within the parameters of possibility.

[Deleted]

Would you?...

Not in a thousand years.
Blizzard forces competitive players to run through LFR in order to get the gear they hilariously call "optional" (yeah, tell that to people that could lose a raid spot to the missing ilvls of LFR items), at the same time carrying casuals that would otherwise wipe in there till the end of time. With nothing to lure good players to LFR, all those that "get in there because I can leave raiding to no lifers" would be stuck to boss 1 of every raid zone, and drop their sub.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what's happening in 5.4, with good players leaving that cesspit and sticking to flex only.

[manybadgers]

I only do lfr if a friend asks to go so yes.

[Deleted]

"Heroic is all about difficulty progression, and gear only exists in the game to allow difficulty to be tuned up for harder content (Gear = Player Power)."

A difficulty that remains static based on "normal gear and nothing more" is not progressive difficulty by definition.

Bringing in semantics and twisting in the "What if's" "But what's" and "Who wha's" doesn't remove your earlier claims and the argument you try to actually pull that is in itself void and null.

That is simply not true, if you have gotten full normal gear you have "out grown" the normal mode. With that gear you should be able to down the heroic content. Everything you get after that is just gravy and is not needed. So HC gear is not needed, it only makes it more easy to progress.
Claiming that gear progression is the only progression is stupid, but that is a large part of this game is obvious.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry but have you never heard of the "World's First" race? You do realize that with the tight timeframe and lockout extending near the end that those guilds beat the heroic bosses while substancially lower ilvl than most "hardcore heroic raiding guilds" will do because they did so within a two to three weeks (after finishing normal mode) max, right?

You could technically beat Normal Garrosh with less than a 530 ilvl across the entire raid team and be within the parameters of possibility.

Could != disproving the notion that it's still based on a static model around "normal gear and nothing more".

As there would be no ramp up in difficulty by definition. So, yeah, throw more null and void arguments at me, please.

[Wishblade]

Only once or twice to see the raids and learn a bit of strategy, preparing myself for Normal (as of Warlords) difficulty.

[Deleted]

Could != disproving the notion that it's still based on a static model around "normal gear and nothing more".

As there would be no ramp up in difficulty by definition. So, yeah, throw more null and void arguments at me, please.

Your the only one here with "null and void arguments". If you are not good enough to clear heroic contend in normal gear, you simply have to try harder.

[Deleted]

Exactly the same thing can be said about normal/heroic gear. But guess you would not want this to change, as you prolly raid normals atm.

I haven't raided in nearly 9 months because I got rather bored with repeating the same raid instance over and over on 3 different alts with no variation in between. I still deliberately avoid LFR either way. My main interest in the game is in 5-man dungeons, but they've killed that in MoP by replacing them with LFR, which is a really poor endgame replacement for people who prefer small groups with friends. The repetition of the same instance over and over just makes it even worse. If you look back to the progression model for TBC, they were an important part of the game, and they were the same difficulty as Karazhan, also dropping the same iLevel gear, so anyone who wanted to progress up to T4 level had quite a lot to do (So you generally had to raid if you wanted to get any further, but the game was still evolving at that point, and the BC dungeons were actually fun for a long time).

Anyway, you may not want the game to have other options for people who aren't interested in raiding, but you are not the majority of players

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That is simply not true, if you have gotten full normal gear you have "out grown" the normal mode. With that gear you should be able to down the heroic content. Everything you get after that is just gravy and is not needed. So HC gear is not needed, it only makes it more easy to progress.
Claiming that gear progression is the only progression is stupid, but that is a large part of this game is obvious.

So if you can't do the content with Normal gear then you shouldn't be allowed to progress? Just showing yourself up as an elitist now...

[Deleted]

I haven't raided in nearly 9 months because I got rather bored with repeating the same raid instance over and over on 3 different alts with no variation in between. I still deliberately avoid LFR either way. My main interest in the game is in 5-man dungeons, but they've killed that in MoP by replacing them with LFR, which is a really poor endgame replacement for people who prefer small groups with friends. The repetition of the same instance over and over just makes it even worse. If you look back to the progression model for TBC, they were an important part of the game, and they were the same difficulty as Karazhan, also dropping the same iLevel gear, so anyone who wanted to progress up to T4 level had quite a lot to do (So you generally had to raid if you wanted to get any further, but the game was still evolving at that point, and the BC dungeons were actually fun for a long time).

Anyway, you may not want the game to have other options for people who aren't interested in raiding, but you are not the majority of players

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So if you can't do the content with Normal gear then you shouldn't be allowed to progress? Just showing yourself up as an elitist now...

Liking 5 mans is not a bad thing, and there should be a few more of them. Senario's are nice, but the absence of the holy trinity can be considered as good and bad. but that is another discussion all together.
As for the other thing, it was in reaction to his claims that the only progress is getting gear. "All" the raiders are complaining that the gear in lfr is too good or that there should be no gear what so ever. My reaction was that there is no need for heroic gear then, as well you do not need it to beat the content.

[Deleted]

Lfr has it's audience. There is nothing that forces you to run lfr providing you didn't skip any tier. Why rage about content that is not for you?

[Vorondil]

If loot was removed from normal/heroic raiding, I would also be cba to raid normal/heroic...

[Deleted]

I hardly do it now, and as soon as a character outgears LFR I never set foot inside it again.

So to answer your question, no gear means no LFR for me.

[Deleted]

I've only done it couple of times as it is.
I'm in a guild, so the other raid modes are more attractive options for me, I see LFR as a "solo" activity.

But regardless of loot or not, I'd probably run it at least once anyhow to check out the place, listen to the music and all that stuff you don't really have time to do when running the other modes. In LFR you can just afk and check out the dungeon without any pressure