Discontinue WF/TF idea in WoD please

[adynn]

Maybe they should just disable it for weapons (and possibly trinkets), while it should get less RNGish with 20m in WoD, tertiary stats will complicate this (mostly cleave for dps).

[Mormolyce]

Yeah this is actually a good argument for it. I've been kinda on the fence on whether I like it or not, but that's just due to my normal "BiS or crap" mindset. This is also probably one of the reasons they are reducing the amount of "prepping" for your items before you can use them. They want you to be continually replacing items, whether you are a hardcore player or a casual. If every item still required 3-4 actions that cost gold to do, than getting a slightly better item can seem like a chore rather than a bonus.

Yeah true, it's annoying enough the way it is now!

TBH the worst thing at the moment is the damn legendary meta gem. So expensive! Makes me facepalm when I get a helmet upgrade.

[Fortyz]

Just to put this back into perspective, the difference between HM and WF HM is 6 ilvls. Which is less than the value of item upgrades (8 ilvls). It's not a big fucking deal unless you're retardedly obsessed with having OMG BEE EYE ESS!!!111

Sure as one item I see your point.
But when its 8 items? or 9? the 6 ilvl stat difference is =>4 gem slots. It adds up

[Count Zero]

I consider the whole TF/WF concept to be a bad attempt to elongate raiding tiers.

They've pumped out more raid content, faster, in MoP than they have in years ...

[Rioo]

I just want one version of the gear to drop per difficulty and be done with it. Getting a BiS is nice for me not because of it actually being a really good item, but for me to be able to cross off one more thing of my list of things I need to complete to be optimized for progression. The fun part of raiding is progression, not farming for slight upgrades. Warforged items adds another luck part into raiding which we don't really need. So yeah, I really dislike the new WoD system of even more randomness.

[Fortyz]

I just want one version of the gear to drop per difficulty and be done with it. Getting a BiS is nice for me not because of it actually being a really good item, but for me to be able to cross off one more thing of my list of things I need to complete to be optimized for progression. The fun part of raiding is progression, not farming for slight upgrades. Warforged items adds another luck part into raiding which we don't really need. So yeah, I really dislike the new WoD system of even more randomness.

I could not agree more.

[Marxman]

Just to put this back into perspective, the difference between HM and WF HM is 6 ilvls. Which is less than the value of item upgrades (8 ilvls). It's not a big fucking deal unless you're retardedly obsessed with having OMG BEE EYE ESS!!!111

Every hardcore raider on Earth is (or SHOULD be) obsessed with having absolute BiS. Let's not have this holier-than-thou attitude towards loot. Everyone wants it. Everyone wants to be the best. WF/TF adds a layer of RNG that the game simply doesn't need. Same goes for these extra RNG rolls coming in WoD. It's obnoxious getting the same non-WF gun from a coin 6 or 7 times in a row, trust me. I'd rather get gold at this point, at least then I don't have that moment of "OH MY GOD A GU- oh, not WF. /guninmouth".

[Raiju]

Sure as one item I see your point.
But when its 8 items? or 9? the 6 ilvl stat difference is =>4 gem slots. It adds up

You're making assumptions to have an argument. I think it's quite easy to see that the WF of WoD is going to be bonus style like it is for 10mans currently, instead of thinking "bad luck of not getting a full set" you should be thinking "good luck of getting near a full set".

With scaling, if they intend to keep numbers down the tier gap might be smaller (and WF might be a smaller bonus)

More importantly, X item levels won't be such a huge difference because blizzard won't give us 1.5 worth of expansions gear scaling to make the squish more accepted.

[Sylreick]

Mentality needs to change. This is how it ought to be seen: Piece with optimal secondaries with no bonus roll = BiS, piece with optimal secondaries and optimal bonus roll = uber BiS (like a legendary, but not quite).

You'll get by just fine with the non-bonus pieces, and the forged will just be a reason to not shard everything on bosses that no one needs anything from.

If you blame failing on progression due to lack of forged gear, it isn't the forged gear that's the problem.

[Soisoisoi]

Kills boss > Coins Heroic Weapon. FML, I wanted Heroic Warforged.


No joke did that last night; it is a bit disheartening, but I guess it also gives reason to keep farming older bosses - normally I'd get loot from a boss and then be happy to sit out so others will can get loot, but it kinda makes me want to stay in so I can get the best version. I mean, it's not even that big of an upgrade, but when you're used to going "Yay, now I have my BiS <item>", it's now... Well I have my non-WF BiS, so it's the same as saying "Yay, now I have my BiS normal <item>" since it's not the best.

[Frozendekay]

I really think it should go. It feels punishing to coin a regular heroic item, even if you need it. You then know that because you have just the regular version you're last in line to receive the WF version.

Getting an item should feel good, it shouldn't be a disappointment that it's not the right version of the item.

[Varabently]

All I'm hearing is that the OP has poor luck with drops. You realize that going to a raid 10 times doesn't magically increase your chances of getting a drop right? If it's 10% chance every week, that doesn't mean you will get a drop after 10 weeks. You could very well go 100 weeks without a drop and it wouldn't be a bug in the system, it would just be an outlier.

That being said, I'm pretty sure this idea of gear with "bonuses" exactly like WF/TF is going to happen in WoD, so you better be prepared for more RNG.

[Deleted]

If one guild in the world first race downs all the same bosses as another, and that guild gets several WF/TF pieces with gem slots and tertiary stats, but the second guild doesn't, is it REALLY a fair race?

It's no different than it currently is, if one guild gets a ton of Amp/CDR trinkets and the other doesn't.

[Varabently]

Mentality needs to change. This is how it ought to be seen: Piece with optimal secondaries with no bonus roll = BiS, piece with optimal secondaries and optimal bonus roll = uber BiS (like a legendary, but not quite).

You'll get by just fine with the non-bonus pieces, and the forged will just be a reason to not shard everything on bosses that no one needs anything from.

If you blame failing on progression due to lack of forged gear, it isn't the forged gear that's the problem.

That's like saying the difference between free and absolutely free. Best in slot means exactly what it says. BEST. There's no SUPER BEST. There's best. #1. That's the mentality and you can't force people to change. Their focus is on maximizing gear, so the best possible IS BIS. Not "super" BIS. You won't get this to change because frankly it's nonsensical. Sure, you can clear heroic content without full BIS, but that's not the point.

[Libertarian]

I can't wait until they add scrolls to upgrade an item to WF/TF in the blizzard shop.

You might think it's insane, but just wait.. it will happen. Save this comment.

[Soisoisoi]

It's no different than it currently is, if one guild gets a ton of Amp/CDR trinkets and the other doesn't.

Idd, RNG will always be here, WF or not it won't make much difference to the top end guilds I'd imagine.

I can't wait until they add scrolls to upgrade an item to WF/TF in the blizzard shop.

You might think it's insane, but just wait.. it will happen. Save this comment.

http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif

[Raiju]

That's like saying the difference between free and absolutely free. Best in slot means exactly what it says. BEST. There's no SUPER BEST. There's best. #1. That's the mentality and you can't force people to change. Their focus is on maximizing gear, so the best possible IS BIS. Not "super" BIS. You won't get this to change because frankly it's nonsensical. Sure, you can clear heroic content without full BIS, but that's not the point.

I imagine the people who are BiS when they clear HC content is sub 1%. So yes it is the point.

You also misunderstood the point. Way back one upon a time BiS wasn't an expectation like it is now. The hardcore base has been spoilt like the casuals have in that regard.

[Leih]

People just have totally the wrong mindset when it comes to this sort of thing. Hopefully it will slowly change in the general community as time goes on and people get more used to it.

You have to realise that the content is tuned for the gear with no bonuses. As in, all of the boss abilities will be tuned to expect a raid group with an average ilvl the same as they were in the days before any bonus Forged gear existed.

That is the clever thing about it. You should be able to clear the content without any of the bonus items. The bonus stats are just that, bonuses. The thing that's quite cool about this is that not only does it give you possible upgrades to keep rooting for in otherwise boring farm runs, but it also works as a gradual nerf-over-time to the content (just like the old DS/ICC 5% nerfs but more subtle). If you're unable to kill the bosses with standard gear because your guild is below the expected par for the content you are attempting, it will become easier over time because eventually people will start to get better items with more bonuses, slowly slowly.

People shouldn't be expecting to get bonus gear and feel like they are gimped if they are unlucky and don't get it all. They should accept that the standard gear is the standard gear and getting any bonuses is a lucky thing that they can be pleased about. It's not going to be a factor in the intended tuning of the bosses, they already mentioned this in interviews when talking about Warforged.

Besides all that, I think Warforged is already doing a decent job of keeping my raiders interested. On farm runs we still have everyone turning up and wanting to kill bosses because they might get that spangly warforged weapon or whatnot. That's great for raid stability, back in Cata and WotLK by this time in the tier it's usually getting to the point where people CBA showing up for farm runs if they're already BIS, or at least when they show up they would be finding it dull as hell.

[Mirishka]

Although the thought of getting a TF item in ToT or a WF item in SoO has been an entertaining one, watching another hunter (obv my main is a hunter) coin 7 HWF BiS items while I cant coin 1 HWF BiS item is frankly BS. I'm sure there is many many stories where people have been in like situations. Thanks RNG. It really adds up and affects Min/Max when there difference is so great between players. to reflect, coining=good idea. WF/TF=bad idea; it makes me feel like what I have is garbage.

I simply love these 'I personally have had bad luck with <name of thing>, therefore it is a bad thing and needs to be removed' topics that people feel the need to make.

Another hunter coining gear that you don't isn't 'BS'. Its RNG.

[cFortyfive]

Every hardcore raider on Earth

Don't lay that just on raiders as there are a lot more people out to improve their stats.

Kills boss > Coins Heroic Weapon. FML, I wanted Heroic Warforged.


No joke did that last night;

Don't really think that's something to feel really bad about. Having farmed the content for months now a normal heroic item on coin just isn't anything to write home about.
I can't make sense out of the argument that having more random stats on items will end up helping anyone. It will just make the better versions even rarer than before.