Reason's behind disgust at 60$ for level 90 chars

[theburned]

Is there another MMO that charges that much for a level boost?

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This is true but the only reason Blizzard is now entertaining the idea of a level boost is because they've extended the max cap to 100. Their design decision has resulted in the requirement for a paid service. I still don't understand the logic of that. Charge me for content. Charge me for pets. Charge me for mounts. I get all of that. But charge me because Blizzard made the gap between 1 and 100 bigger? I don't get that.

I know it's optional. I know it's choice. But I still feel it's bad news.

I doubt there are many MMO's even offering level boost, maybe xp multipliers, but not level boosts.

actually their design decision has kept the levelling pace quite even throughout expansions, levelling from 1-90 is quite close if not much faster than levelling 1-60, they offer RAF opportunities that makes rush through 1-85, not skip, but rush, and until now they offered free 85 (?) for scroll of ressurection.

Though you are right, it's bad news adding this as a option can quickly turn into an excuse for not expanding RAF levelling to 90, and also an excuse for increasing the levelling speed through pandaria (e.g. reduce the xp)

As long as they keep evolving the present options it's ok to add such a feature, if they don't it's something that will cost blizzard a lot of subs.

Also this doesn't really concern me as I got all classes above 80, levelling the last 10 lvls isn't really an issue, cata goes quick and MoP is well not that long really and got alternate levelling methods

[Deleted]

I also love that Blizzard set it high. Just to get those suckers to pay for it lol

[silvercentric]

Ok, So what is the value of the time it takes to get to 90?

Since you really need this spelled out for you. WoW is a game. Games follows rules, these rules define that game's mechanics. WoW has an element called "leveling" which is rooted deeply in RPG tradition. You "level up" a character by acquiring enough experience through various means. This can mean killing an enemy, completing a quest, etc. Whatever it is you do it takes time and effort to accomplish.

Since that is appearently all a 90 is actually worth.

What exactly do you mean by this? Do you just write filler sentences like this because you can't put together a coherent thought? There is value in being a level 90 character. However, that is not the only source of value a character has. A character may have gold, items, equipment, completed character-specific achievements, hold PvP ranks, challenge mode records, etc. These are all things that contribute to the value of a character.

Oddly enough, blizzard has an answer for you: That time commitment is worth 60 bucks.

That is by no means an answer as to what a level 90 is worth. If leveling is simply a matter of time spent then the value (according to you) should be much more expensive. If minimum wage in the US is $7.25 an hour and we assume it takes anywhere from 72 to 120 hours (3 to 5 days /played) to reach max level then the approximate value of a level 90 is somewhere around $522-870.

What this means is that they've completely cheapened the value of leveling a character. Anyone who no longer lives with their parents (MMO-Champion, who am I kidding) and has a job and just wants to get to endgame content would be foolish to think of anything but purchasing a level 90.

They are giving you a choice: Pay 60 bucks for a 90, or Spend X amount of time for a 90. If you dont want to pay for one, you play for one. In the end though, in the grand scheme of things, how you get to 90 will have almost no appreciable impact on what you do once you are there, since you still have to level from 90 to 100 to get to the endgame of WoD.

If you dont want to pay for one, you play for one.

That's a really disgusting game design philosophy.

There is quite literally no way that blizzard could improve the leveling system for vetran players because every veteran player has seen the leveling content more times then they really want to allready.

Except there are plenty of ways to improve the leveling system for veteran players that doesn't involve extensive amounts of developer resources.

No amount of level curve tweaking, quest exp rebalancing or any of that shit will change that fact.

In your professional opinion.

Your whole argeuemnt that a 90 has inherent value and that the 60 buck price tag to get an instant one somehow deminishes that value is predicated on the belief that everyone puts the same signifigance on its appearant value as you do. which is not the case. To some people, the only thing a 90 is worth is the time it took to get there. To others, the 90 is worth all the experiences they had with the character up to that point. To others, it isnt worth squat, because the new benchmark of character power will be level 100, and a fresh 90 still has to get there.

Now you're at least making some sense. Of course different players will place different value on a level 90. Some will see getting to 90 as a chore. Others enjoy the process. But here's the thing, and I know it seems hard to follow since the two seem so directly connected: it doesn't matter.

There is inherent, objective value in having a level 90 and that is the only thing that matters for this discussion. In the end two different players will have a level 90; one put in the time to acquire that via in-game methods, the other payed cash. The fact that you cannot differentiate between the two and see what's so wrong about it is just sad.

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Saying it once was more than enough. Pretty much everything you do in WoW creates something out of nothing. That's why it's a virtual world.

Except that's not true at all. When you acquire something in WoW you earn it by doing something. You killed that NPC for EXP. You completed that quest for the gold. When you acquire something, it has a source. Sometimes that source is limited: ore/herb nodes, competition over rare spawns, etc. Sometimes it is "unlimited" (in a relevant sense): running dungeons, battlegrounds, etc.

If you're so against value being created or destroyed from nothing, why aren't you arguing against the normal expansion gear resets instead of the 60$ boost fee? A raid-geared max-level toon has a ton of value, when the new patch comes out and better gear is available from easy 5 man dungeons, that value has poofed. That has a ton more impact than this 60$ fee.

When a new expansion launches you don't lose any power. Nothing is destroyed (class balance changes excluded of course). You retain the ability to do everything that you could before it launched, it is just no longer relevant to the most recent content.

[MatadorMedia]

$60 is high enough to deter a large number of folks arbitrarily creating 90s.

Also, it's the cost of a 4 month subscription. Anyone can hit 90 in 4 months.

[macdisciple]

I find it a massive step down a horrible slippery slope.

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth this sort of thing on a sub based game

Why do you care how other people play the game?

[silvercentric]

Why do you care how other people play the game?

As I've said before in this thread. WoW is an MMO, not a single-player game. How other players acquire things is everyone's business.

[adorich]

Three points:

1. It's difficult to take any part of your post seriously if you're serious about the question posed in the quote. That's why we have patches and expansions. That's part of the reason why they say they are bending all of their efforts on end game instead of continuously toying around with stuff that has already been in the game for years.

2. I believe that scaled content is going to be in the game sooner rather than later. Which will possibly make older raids and dungeons more interesting. Maybe. At least I hope so. It's something I've looked forward to for a very long time. And they actually seem to have a project like this in progress.

3. It's just as sensible to say they're charging people who want to skip to the part of the game they'd prefer to play. Don't skip it if you don't like the charge. You do have that choice.

It sounds like you're okay with the leveling experience as it is today. I'm not. Leveling (even for the Xteenth time) shouldn't have to suck. Low level pvp and dungeons are in a bad state. I believe Blizzard should make attempts to fix what isn't right as well as open content they already have (old raids, heroics, scenarios) before charging players to skip it. To be clear, when say, "fix" I don't mean redo or create. For example, adjust damage so players aren't 2 shot in bgs and adjust damage mobs do in dungeons so that dps aren't encouraged to pull packs of mobs.

Blizzard should be offering a variety of things to do to level that are similar to 'end game', instead of charging players to skip the poorly balanced low level bgs and dungeons that exist today. Blizzard has no incentive to change the leveling experience if people are willing to pay to skip it. Anyone who won't pay for an instant 90 is stuck with a leveling experience that has issues Blizzard won't fix.

[Deleted]

Okay... so you buy a game with its expansions, which with some special sales might total around that $60.

Then you pay another $60 to AVOID playing that game. Sense?

glad it's 60 bucks, that makes purchasing a 90 non-trivial.
I don't like the idea of buying a 90, but tbh it's not buying your way to the finish.

I wonder what guild is going to recruit a lvl 90 with zero achievement points.

The free lvl 90s should come with a big, flashing "NOOB" title above their heads that everyone except the player can see.

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As I've said before in this thread. WoW is an MMO, not a single-player game. How other players acquire things is everyone's business.

This.

There's a difference with "I fought my way to the top" and "daddy bought it to me". Even if you pay the $60 instead of your dad, it's exactly the same thing gameplay-wise.

[Trubo]

Okay... so you buy a game with its expansions, which with some special sales might total around that $60.

Then you pay another $60 to AVOID playing that game. Sense?

The boost is mostly for those people who have seen the older content repeatedly and are tired of re-experiencing it before getting to the content that they bought the latest expansion to see. Could this service have been implemented better whether it be additional free characters for those that have multiple 100s, constantly evolving leveling content or some other option? Possibly.

There's a difference with "I fought my way to the top" and "daddy bought it to me". Even if you pay the $60 instead of your dad, it's exactly the same thing gameplay-wise.

If you consider reaching level 90 as something amazing at this point in MoP's life then I guess that's your prerogative.

[Deleted]

For example, adjust damage so players aren't 2 shot in bgs and adjust damage mobs do in dungeons so that dps aren't encouraged to pull packs of mobs.

After making the mistake of tanking a few times while leveling alts I wholeheartedly support this. That idiot heirloom monk who rushes ahead to pull while my abilities are on cd deserves to die in some humiliating way. There should be a system in dungeons where mobs that were pulled by other players than the tank would hit 5x harder on the player who pulled them, unless the tank is missing/you are soloing stuff.

[Sierra85]

if you are not a tank role all melee hits should be crushing blows

[worstpvperus]

Okay... so you buy a game with its expansions, which with some special sales might total around that $60.

Then you pay another $60 to AVOID playing that game. Sense?



I wonder what guild is going to recruit a lvl 90 with zero achievement points.

The free lvl 90s should come with a big, flashing "NOOB" title above their heads that everyone except the player can see.

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This.

There's a difference with "I fought my way to the top" and "daddy bought it to me". Even if you pay the $60 instead of your dad, it's exactly the same thing gameplay-wise.

Leveling to 90 isn't fighting your way to the top unless you're in a high end guild or rank 1. Nothing you are doing really matters. Why do you need to see that they are a newb? its not hard to spot a bad player if u need a title to see that then...

[xcess]

Some ppl here think if you buy instant 90 they are automatically bad. Yeah its possible but so can all the other ways. Ppl havent been leveling traditionally for ages so why are ppl complaining about this new option now? is it only cos its the most recent new way? If someone herbs and mines to 90 how does that help them in raids same with pet battles and been overgeared in dungeons or pvp

[MoanaLisa]

I wonder what guild is going to recruit a lvl 90 with zero achievement points.

The free lvl 90s should come with a big, flashing "NOOB" title above their heads that everyone except the player can see.

How many guilds or players do you think will take advantage of this to provide their raid team with more alts of different classes?

So I have a main on one faction at end game but don't want to spend any additional time leveling another for the other faction. I get a free level 90--like everyone who buys WoD in case you didn't know--and use it to have another main of the same class/spec on the other faction? Does that make me a 'noob'?

Oh, another thing: many achievements are account wide now. Very few alts are going to have zero achievement points. In any case 10 minutes in a flex group will answer that recruiting question.

[Overdispersion]

Am I disgusted at the price tag? No. Do I find it fair? No. Why do I find it unfair? Because it's not that I don't want to level because of all the time it takes. My most recent toon took me 6 days to level (3d, 12h played time) and I'm not even saying I'm good at leveling because I just blindly followed the in game Zygor guide. Is it fuckign boring? YES. As someone who's run the same content multiple times, I don't get motivated by quests because I already know all the lore. I leveled 58-80 in 2 days and it was just painful. Doing Hellfire Peninsula, Nagrand, Howling Fjord and Zul'Drak for the 10th time is just painful but I had to, if I want to enjoy max level content with my toon. Do I find it painful to grind heroics at max level for a week to get geared up? NO! Because I get to do dungeons with my friends who aren't dimwitted. Do I enjoy doing dailies at max level? OMG, YES. Because I don't have to do them alone. I thought Blizz would set a low price tag for a level 90 character because I thought they would finally confess that they have no interest in making low level leveling enjoyable. But no, they didn't. They simply said "yeah, if you don't have the time for leveling up to 90, you can buy one". NO! It's not about the time, because I have plenty. It's. just. not. fun. anymore.

[Jellybean]

When a new expansion launches you don't lose any power. Nothing is destroyed (class balance changes excluded of course). You retain the ability to do everything that you could before it launched, it is just no longer relevant to the most recent content.

I didn't say you lose ingame power, I said you lose value; value was the word you've been using in this debate all along, so switching to power is an obvious strawman.

If, however, you insist upon talking about power, then the massive increase in power for many characters that swiftly follows an expansion as ungeared characters do a few quests and get a full set of gear which is more powerful than the raid gear others spent months earning is equally disproportionate and created from nothing, and my argument remains unchanged. In fact, considering how many characters never raid, this may be an even more statistically common scenario. Thanks.

[Florena]

The boost is mostly for those people who have seen the older content repeatedly and are tired of re-experiencing it before getting to the content that they bought the latest expansion to see. Could this service have been implemented better whether it be additional free characters for those that have multiple 100s, constantly evolving leveling content or some other option? Possibly.



If you consider reaching level 90 as something amazing at this point in MoP's life then I guess that's your prerogative.

My understanding is the main reason for the free lvl 90 boost isn't for people who have multiple 90s who want to skip the content, but for people that are new to the game, coming back to the game after a break, or who have friends on other factions/servers so they can make a lvl 90 and instantly play in WoD content with their friends. And the sellable version is just there so that they don't have people buying multiple accounts to get more boosts, if people are gong to do that anyway (and they would) they might as well just sell it at a steep enough price so not everybody's doing it.

[silvercentric]

I didn't say you lose ingame power, I said you lose value; value was the word you've been using in this debate all along, so switching to power is an obvious strawman.

Strawman? No. The two terms are nearly analogous in this context. To rephrase it for you since you're incapable of stringing two coherent thoughts together: When a new expansion launches you don't lose any value. Nothing is destroyed (class balance changes excluded of course). You retain the ability to do everything that you could before it launched, it is just no longer relevant to the most recent content.

To put it more simply, the value cap is expanded to allow you to become more powerful, to become more valuable. No value is lost.

If, however, you insist upon talking about power, then the massive increase in power for many characters that swiftly follows an expansion as ungeared characters do a few quests and get a full set of gear which is more powerful than the raid gear others spent months earning is equally disproportionate and created from nothing, and my argument remains unchanged. In fact, considering how many characters never raid, this may be an even more statistically common scenario. Thanks.

Except that gear comes from somewhere. It come from doing quests, killing dungeon bosses, etc. So just how exactly can you say it comes from nowhere?

My understanding is the main reason for the free lvl 90 boost isn't for people who have multiple 90s who want to skip the content, but for people that are new to the game, coming back to the game after a break, or who have friends on other factions/servers so they can make a lvl 90 and instantly play in WoD content with their friends. And the sellable version is just there so that they don't have people buying multiple accounts to get more boosts, if people are gong to do that anyway (and they would) they might as well just sell it at a steep enough price so not everybody's doing it.

If that's the argument then there's a serious flaw with that reasoning. Blizzard entirely has the technology present to prevent players from transferring level 90s created via the free 90 boost to their main account. Such "technology" would be as simple as having a Boolean value (true or false) which tracks whether or not a character was create with the service. If it was, it should be nontransferable.

[rhorle]

I wonder what guild is going to recruit a lvl 90 with zero achievement points.

They won't have zero achievement points, because they will still earn all the achievements you gain by leveling to 90 and the account wide achievements if they have another character. However they will still be recruited and accepted like RaF and SoR characters have been for years. It might be a little harder to get in the door, but proof is in how you play and not what achievements you have (since those can be bought/carried).

There's a difference with "I fought my way to the top" and "daddy bought it to me". Even if you pay the $60 instead of your dad, it's exactly the same thing gameplay-wise.

But not that much of a difference. Most classes play different at level cap then they do prior to level cap. In fact the entire Warlock mechanics change at level 90. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=131973 has an impact on how you approach dots. Meaning you have to approach your rotations and everything different at 90 then even a level before.

This also doesn't take into account prior knowledge. Good players don't need to play 1-90 to learn things if they already know it. I knew how to tank better then a new player with out having every played a tank in WoW. Its because I knew the abilities, knew the mechanics, and knew how to interact with those things. You are right its exactly the same thing game play wise though. So there can't be a difference if everything is exactly the same game play wise.

And thats what matters, game play wise. Otherwise the game would already be bad for the simple fact that not everyone obtains something like everyone else. A heroic raider has an easier time with content that a LFR raider might struggle with. That is a non game play difference.

[ComputerNerd]

an great insight to fanboys who blindfoldly follow brands and game companies.

If people would stop throwing out the fanboy argument every time they don't get the support for their negative and biased view it would help.
You are looking at one view of this person you disagree with, not all of their views.
So cut out that regurgitated junk.

If you give us a good argument we can accept it.
People complained about how "everyone" would use the service if it was too cheap and would result in this flood of the great unskilled reaching level cap and ruining the game.
People complained about how it is too expensive.

People will complain about anything and usually criticising blizzard because they can't admit the only problem is themselves.
Reasons for playing change, motivations change, the game changes.
Get over it and grow up rather than throwing a tantrum and lashing out at the easy target.

I am against the non-flying, since I disagree with and picked many holes in their reasoning.
I have been very vocal about that even.
But I will continue to play regardless.
I am not blaming other people.