Character models: This disturbs me

[Trassk]

People put to much faith in blizzard ability to make things better. Really, you don't question it, and then when you realize all your faith in these devs isn't quite what you claim it to be, you still defend them?

Some of us have been though that, have defended them, have thought maybe they can do better. And its because the devs have made so many half arsed promises and not given what they said will happen in the past, MANY TIMES, that the rest of us are clearly skeptical about anything they say.

Saying 'oh its alpha, it'll get better', No, I've heard that line utter so many bloody times, and it never works out to be better.

[Deleted]

This is not true. See:

Distinct painted eyes, nose, cheeks and mouth. Even the jaw changes texturewise.These mostly don't even have wrinkles.
It may be only painted but it at least work to look distinct visually.

The shape of the head is still the same for all of them. Just different textures.

[Lemons]

The shape of the head is still the same for all of them. Just different textures.

Doesn't matter...the texture still tricks the the eye into believing there is some topology there. That's like...the entire point of textures.

[Austilias]

Hopefully we see more faces. I'll be pretty disappointed if the new models follow the Pandaren Female trend.

I will assume/hope that this is simply because they haven't finished all the faces yet. Either that or they truly believe that more emotive facial expressions justifies every face being nigh identical.

[Binks]

People put to much faith in blizzard ability to make things better. Really, you don't question it, and then when you realize all your faith in these devs isn't quite what you claim it to be, you still defend them?

Some of us have been though that, have defended them, have thought maybe they can do better. And its because the devs have made so many half arsed promises and not given what they said will happen in the past, MANY TIMES, that the rest of us are clearly skeptical about anything they say.

Saying 'oh its alpha, it'll get better', No, I've heard that line utter so many bloody times, and it never works out to be better.

For once, I agree with you.

Plus, the time to make our voice heard is now, not latter. If we disagree with something in alpha, we must say it now so there is any chance of changing it (changes need time). Waiting for retail to say "all the faces are the same" won't help us.

[Amozabael]

For once, I agree with you.

Plus, the time to make our voice heard is now, not latter. If we disagree with something in alpha, we must say it now so there is any chance of changing it (changes need time).Waiting for retail to say "all the faces are the same" won't help us.

Wrong, nobody's saying that. They're saying wait for open Beta, when players are able test their stuff and developers are therefore coming to you for feedback, rather than you seeking them out to tell them.

Besides, you're wasting your time by just complaining here. You want something to change? Contact the devs expressing this issue. A few days ago I tweeted Chris Robinson with a link to this thread and pointed out that these faces weren't distinct enough. That's the best we can do before open beta comes out.

[ringpriest]

Its beta they said. It will be reworked they said..
Yeah......
(Image of 20 identical female pandaren snipped for length)

This. Exactly why those of use who are concerned, skeptical, or worried aren't reassured by the endless "it's not even Beta!" protests.

[Amozabael]

This. Exactly why those of use who are concerned, skeptical, or worried aren't reassured by the endless "it's not even Beta!" protests.

There's a pattern that people don't seem to notice, though. Only the animal races that blizzard creates suffer from same-face, not the humanoid ones. Case-in-point: Goblins Vs Worgen. For a vanilla example, Tauren, for a more modern example, Pandaren.

This is why I don't see the argument in that. Of course Pandaren have no variation, because the animal they're based off of have none either.



Behold, the source material Blizzard was working with. Go ahead, try to spot differences.

The Pandaren argument has no merit to me for that reason. I wasn't expecting them to pull differences out of their ass where there was none to begin with. What I do know is that Non-anthro races have no excuse and I'll be watching what blizzard does about this issue closely.

[summourn]

For those saying the identical faces are just an issue with beast races, how do you explain the amount of variety and detail the males of those races possess? The issue is always only with the female half of them. Males are given plenty of variety to their features to choose from regardless of being covered in fur or not. If you don't believe me, go cycle through the male Pandaren faces. They're old, happy, stern, youthful, scarred, etc.

It's only the females where these limitations come into play suddenly. So it's saying to me that Blizzard made a conscious choice to not gift some character selections with facial variety while others (of the same race but a different gender) are given plenty.

I'm actually kind of terrified to see what female characters are going to be like. I honestly mean it when I say I wouldn't be surprised if male characters are given a variety of faces and females only one vapid, pretty and stereotypical one per race with, say, eye color variation.

As a female, it angers me, actually. I don't want to get into some weird hot button debate here, and I know it's a whole different topic, but sometimes I feel Blizz views me as lesser and unworthy of customization/uniqueness/character because of my gender. Made me quit the game for a good long while.

Anyway, TL;DR -- Wouldn't be surprised if the faces are so close in resemblance as to be nearly identical. It's happened before, and it's happened as an apparently conscious design choice as opposed to racial limitations.

[Deleted]

The beta is not even live. Chill!

[Deleted]

There's a pattern that people don't seem to notice, though. Only the animal races that blizzard creates suffer from same-face, not the humanoid ones. Case-in-point: Goblins Vs Worgen. For a vanilla example, Tauren, for a more modern example, Pandaren.

This is why I don't see the argument in that. Of course Pandaren have no variation, because the animal they're based off of have none either.



Behold, the source material Blizzard was working with. Go ahead, try to spot differences.

The Pandaren argument has no merit to me for that reason. I wasn't expecting them to pull differences out of their ass where there was none to begin with. What I do know is that Non-anthro races have no excuse and I'll be watching what blizzard does about this issue closely.

This is a bad argument that I keep seeing way too many times as an excuse for the lack of variety in Pandaren/female Worgen faces.

Making distinct looking textures for beasts might be harder but it's nowhere near impossible.



^ The fact that these have only one distinguishable face is not due to them being beasts. This is a cop out and a half-assed, possibly rushed job. That's the main reason.




^ These are beasts too but both of them have about 5 distinct looking faces. Maybe the differences aren't as pronounced as with Goblins/Gnomes but they're still satisfactory and give a real choice when making your character.

[Deleted]

This is a bad argument that I keep seeing way too many times as an excuse for the lack of variety in Pandaren/female Worgen faces.

Making distinct looking textures for beasts might be harder but it's nowhere near impossible.



^ The fact that these have only one distinguishable face is not due to them being beasts. This is a cop out and a half-assed, possibly rushed job. That's the main reason.




^ These are beasts too but both of them have about 5 distinct looking faces. Maybe the differences aren't as pronounced as with Goblins/Gnomes but they're still satisfactory and give a real choice when making your character.

The problem is when you're making a character that is both bestial and female. We're in a male dominated society so when we see an animal we immediately assume that it's male. The Worgen male's face does not look like a male wolf, it looks like a wolf of either gender. So when you're creating anthropomorphic characters you usually use the animals normal features to represent the male whilst the female version is tweaked to look different.

[Deleted]

There's just as much variation in the Worgen female face as the Worgen male, the male's is more apparent because his eyes are so dominating.

They both have variations in fur pattern, nose size/shape and fur color.

The only thing changing in the female Worgen face is the tone of her skin, they didn't even bother recoloring the eyes (which wouldn't help much).
Male worgens textures are much more varied.

In the end, the only thing that matters (and that goes for any model) is whether the faces give the illusion of being different or not - for me the male Worgens do and the female Worgens don't and I always see the exact same "person" underneath. Same thing goes for the leaked Orc faces.

[Deleted]

The only thing changing in the female Worgen face is the tone of her skin, they didn't even bother recoloring the eyes (which wouldn't help much).

Actually, if you check closely, the female worgen have different eye colors.

But Protar is still right, if you look to a real dog, you can't even tell if is a male or female, much less tell each one apart besides the fur color or size.

[twiddler]

I'll keep reposting this comparison image for as long as it's relevant:



There are defined differences in the wrinkles, but most of what individualized the old faces was how much their lips were open to reveal teeth, which you can't do through texture work. They need to rig the lips to be able to open varying amounts for each face if they want to preserve that aspect of the old faces.

I agree. They do have differences. Yet, the fact that I have to break out the magnifier to find these differences is very troubling. All faces look the same. Imagine if we were on the streets and we see identical twins. If I told you that they look the same, would you point out the small differences in wrinkles or perhaps the slight differentiation of noses?

If you compare the old orc models among themselves and the new orc models among themselves, the respective differences are gigantic with the old and not particularly distinguishable for the new. I rolled the peon face because it looked like the peon from WC3--I don't want to look like green Garrosh.

[Deleted]

I agree. They do have differences. Yet, the fact that I have to break out the magnifier to find these differences is very troubling. All faces look the same. Imagine if we were on the streets and we see identical twins. If I told you that they look the same, would you point out the small differences in wrinkles or perhaps the slight differentiation of noses?

If you compare the old orc models among themselves and the new orc models among themselves, the respective differences are gigantic with the old and not particularly distinguishable for the new. I rolled the peon face because it looked like the peon from WC3--I don't want to look like green Garrosh.

Yeah same with me. honestly when I first saw this screenshot my first impression was "Oh there is only one face available atm" then when I saw a couple of forum threads and looked especially hard (I'm sure my observation skills are a lot worse than a lot of you) I was especially worried because they are very very slightly different.

This is why every page of this thread is full of people looking at the faces seeing only one face and assuming exactly what I assumed: It's not finished yet have some faith in Blizzard it's only beta. But no they have made the effort to skin all of these slightly different and I can't see them doing this as a placeholder thing (I hope to god I'm wrong).

[Seyna Starstrider]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...face_alpha.png

Alpha female worgen.

While the differences are subtle like on the new male orc, there's different nose shapes, different muzzle shapes, different brow shapes, and eyes range from sultry to feral. I can tell the cute faces apart from the feral ones. On a -female- beast model, and an alpha model at that. The current female worgen may have different nose shapes, but her faces are still the same derpy, bulging bedroom eyes with TMNT snarl. There's no old face. There's no cute face. There's no fierce face. No slick, cunning face. Nada.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps4663271e.png

And here are some male pandaren faces. Though it is only texture differences, there IS variety in the faces.

Nothing to do with the male orc himself, but wanted to show that there is no excuse for lack of variety, whether it is female, or a beast race, or both.

Heck, I did it with my noob art skills, on the female pandaren. I painted on the textures and reapplied them on the models and had them do their emotes.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps441e62c1.jpg

And here's one I did for my panda priestess, Yue Bing.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps9ffac494.jpg

[Deleted]

imo is better to have 1 good face then 10 horrible ones.

[Hellspawn]

As a female, it angers me, actually. I don't want to get into some weird hot button debate here, and I know it's a whole different topic, but sometimes I feel Blizz views me as lesser and unworthy of customization/uniqueness/character because of my gender. Made me quit the game for a good long while.

Well female heroic-comic stylized figures are normally kept simpler because, the more you add, the more it will look like a male, especially on the face.
However, when it comes to hairstyles, they are most of the time much more creative, as well as the jewelry.
So the difference on the face is a bit more subtle but very much visible, at least with the current painted face system.

[Deleted]

I really have difficulties in understanding why they were not able to produce such customization quality with Pandaren as they did with Goblins (no, Worgens are not worth mentioning). I think the system for basic faceshape + different face textures + extra polygons for ears/chin/nose chosen by the player was excellent, it gave a lot of options and I still haven't walked across the twin of my Goblin rogue. That should be the basic line for everything they do, imo.