Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Deleted]

The reason it would exist of course would be that when you have an overwhelmingly powerful force any competitor won't even try. If, for example, Britain, France, Russia and the United States had all allied well *before* World War I the Germans would have known that they face an overwhelming, unbeatable force and they would've had to back off. There would have been no WWI, no Bolshevik revolution and no WWII.

You sure don't know what you're talking about. Germany didn't cause or start that war, it was started by Austria. Germany was dragged into it due to a pact they had with Austria. Later, after they got defeated, the Germans got blamed for everything while the Austrians got away with it without having to pay any reparations at all. The Versailles Treaty should have targeted Austria, not Germany. WW2 is a direct result of this failure, ultimately it is the western allies who are to blame for WW2, they forced Germany's hand.

[Kellhound]

Hardly. The advent of nuclear weaponry has precluded direct warfare between the major powers; the warfare of the future is proxy warfare between spheres of influence.

That is not actually true. It complicates it and limits the scope over which a war can be waged, but it does not prevent a direct confrontation. It forces combat into the tactical realm and the cost of losing must be kept low.

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Ukraine stable? A decade long thread?

It will reach a state of stability in the near term, one way or the other. What it looks like when that happens, that is the real question.

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Yep. What we're seeing in Crimea and Ukraine is an excellent example of Fourth-Generation Warfare.

"4th Generation Warfare" is just calling an age old common type of conflict a jazzy new name.

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You sure don't know what you're talking about. Germany didn't cause or start that war, it was started by Austria. Germany was dragged into it due to a pact they had with Austria. Later, after they got defeated, the Germans got blamed for everything while the Austrians got away with it without having to pay any reparations at all. The Versailles Treaty should have targeted Austria, not Germany. WW2 is a direct result of this failure, ultimately it is the western allies who are to blame for WW2, they forced Germany's hand.

That is an over simplification. France and Germany bear significant responsibility for the size of the conflict, and to a lesser extent so does Russia. It was a very complex "cause" with no innocent parties.

[Isolyphic]

Russia is currently 'mobbing' British Airspace and Waters.
If anything, Russia wants Britain first to fall, since it's the most heavily fortified country in the world with World Powers.
Not a good time to be in Britain

[Kellhound]

Russia is currently 'mobbing' British Airspace and Waters.
If anything, Russia wants Britain first to fall, since it's the most heavily fortified country in the world with World Powers.
Not a good time to be in Britain

What Russia has been doing on the seas lately still pails in size to the actions of the USSR during the Cold War. The UK is safe.

[Isolyphic]

What, a whole squadron of Military Jets, bee-lining towards Britain and then reversing just outside of the British Waters, north of Scotland, the least defended region of Britain, weeks away from the Scottish Referendum.
A mine laying ship spotted just outside British Waters, which has the HMS Dragon shadowing it.

It maybe subtle but you don't test another state's responses to a feint invasion for nothing.

Also if Russia steps inside Ukraine, Britain automatically declares War. Due to the commitment made in Budapest.

[Kellhound]

What, a whole squadron of Military Jets, bee-lining towards Britain and then reversing just outside of the British Waters, north of Scotland, the least defended region of Britain, weeks away from the Scottish Referendum.
A mine laying ship spotted just outside British Waters, which has the HMS Dragon shadowing it.

It maybe subtle but you don't test another state's responses to a feint invasion for nothing.

Also if Russia steps inside Ukraine, Britain automatically declares War. Due to the commitment made in Budapest.

The testing of Scottish airspace was once common place. And there has been a Russian "warship" close to US waters for some time, but again nothing like it used to be. Plain and simple, Russia has NO ability to threaten the UK in any meaningful manner.

[jaakkeli]

Germany was dragged into it due to a pact they had with Austria.

Nah, Germany was pretty actively encouraging Austria. But I wasn't looking for anyone to "blame" for the war, just pointed out why it's a good idea to have an overwhelmingly powerful single alliance instead of an uncertain system of single alliances that makes it hard to see who you'll actually face in the war.

There will always be friction between neighbours but if the world had already arranged into that one British-French-American-Russian-etc alliance it Germany would have seen that the big war is unwinnable and told Austria to cool it. Instead you had this system where one country after another joined in so the war that first looked winnable to Germany turned impossible.

Later, after they got defeated, the Germans got blamed for everything while the Austrians got away with it without having to pay any reparations at all. The Versailles Treaty should have targeted Austria, not Germany.

Austria was stripped of its entire empire. It lost a lot more than Germany did and the war reparations that Germany paid after Versailles were nowhere near as significant as the German nationalists claimed. The economic crisis that followed had lots of other causes and the Great Depression was global, blaming the reparations was just Nazi propaganda whipping up anger.

[Deleted]

Plain and simple, Russia has NO ability to threaten the UK in any meaningful manner.

That's what you want to believe

[jaakkeli]

Russia is currently 'mobbing' British Airspace and Waters.
If anything, Russia wants Britain first to fall, since it's the most heavily fortified country in the world with World Powers.
Not a good time to be in Britain

They do that to Finland every other day and we don't pee our pants over it...

[Kellhound]

That's what you want to believe

That is what I KNOW. The RN and RAF may be much smaller than they were 20 years ago, but they are more then up to the task of keeping Russia out. Russia's power projection capabilities are quite small.

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They do that to Finland every other day and we don't pee our pants over it...

No, you just send out a couple F-18s, escort them, and take pictures.

[Cyberowl]

And now Russians are annoying the Dutch with their nice little flights. What a nice neighbor to the EU!

[Deleted]

That is what I KNOW. The RN and RAF may be much smaller than they were 20 years ago, but they are more then up to the task of keeping Russia out. Russia's power projection capabilities are quite small.

It's what they want you to believe. The RN and RAF wasn't even able to keep the germans away, back when it was much bigger. But anyway, there's no point in attacking the UK, as they're nothing more than a toothless papertiger nowadays.

[Kellhound]

It's what they want you to believe. The RN and RAF wasn't even able to keep the germans away, back when it was much bigger. But anyway, there's no point in attacking the UK, as they're nothing more than a toothless papertiger nowadays.

That toothless tiger would rip through any Russian force they might face. Russia has fallen far further down militarily than the UK. The Chinese military is generally in better shape than the Russian military for Pete's sake....

[Isolyphic]

That is what I KNOW. The RN and RAF may be much smaller than they were 20 years ago, but they are more then up to the task of keeping Russia out. Russia's power projection capabilities are quite small.
No, you just send out a couple F-18s, escort them, and take pictures.

Uhm.. no, cause Russia has been purchasing 180 Aircraft a year.. They're up by a considerable amount.
They're shit in Navy though, still only 1 carrier, Britain has two being built right now with a small one floating somewhere.

But yeah, those Bears, if anyone hears those.. fucking run, I mean run for your life.

It's what they want you to believe. The RN and RAF wasn't even able to keep the germans away, back when it was much bigger. But anyway, there's no point in attacking the UK, as they're nothing more than a toothless papertiger nowadays.

That's where you are wrong. Britain is the most strategically valuable country to Europe. It's a whole Island on all sides, that is nearly inpenetrable.

WW2? You do realize Britain land was only even touched by Downed Planes and the occasional bomb right? Because Britain shot down any plane coming near it and ships couldn't get close.

[obdigore]

Uhm.. no, cause Russia has been purchasing 180 Aircraft a year.. They're up by a considerable amount.
They're shit in Navy though, still only 1 carrier, Britain has two being built right now with a small one floating somewhere.

You realize those aircraft they are purchasing aren't 4th gen fighters, right?

[Isolyphic]

Doesn't matter, those Jets greatly outmaneuver Typhoons. Typhoons are way too slow.

But to be honest, It's the bears you need to worry about. Hundreds of Ballistic Missiles on mega-noisy Planes.

[obdigore]

Doesn't matter, those Jets greatly outmaneuver F18s. F18s and Hornets are way too slow.

But to be honest, It's the bears you need to worry about. Hundreds of Ballistic Missiles on mega-noisy Planes.

That isn't true, and even if it were, they have nothing on the F-22. The only thing Russia has that has a chance at competing with the F-22s are a handful (read: under 10) prototype aircraft that aren't in production.

[Thunderball]

From the Wikipedia page you obviously didn't bother to read:

About the only element from that list that it might be argued hasn't come into play yet is terrorism. There are clear examples of everything else.

Care to elaborate? Who the opposing side in the operation? What was the goal? The way I see it, there was no military conflict or operation in Crimea, only political.

[Cyberowl]

Care to elaborate? Who the opposing side in the operation? What was the goal? The way I see it, there was no military conflict or operation in Crimea, only political.

No military operation? You woot m8? Last time I looked sending troops to enforce/secure your interests is a military operation.

[Thunderball]

You realize those aircraft they are purchasing aren't 4th gen fighters, right?

Russia doesnt produce any sub 4gen fighters.