Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Deleted]

You even bother to have a "discussion" with Gabriel?

Well, I agree that ignoring would be wiser than actually engaging... But I'm a fool and ill keep answering

[Haven]

Hallucinate all you like. My country has and always will, base all of our defence strategies as Russia would be the aggressor. Nothing will ever change that.

When someone says "nothing will ever change that" while not referring to fundamental laws of physics, it's mostly religious talk.

This thread deserves a lurkmore article, doesn't it?

Come think of it, it definitely does

Can you actually make a post without a sarcastic/ironic/childish/satiric note? I honestly don't recall one without.

Barely, and definitely not in a thread like this. I'm just that kind of person.

[jaakkeli]

Enough to conquer Luxembourg for sure. Finland strong!

Finland actually has one of the strongest militaries in Europe. Everyone else has disarmed and expects NATO and America to defend them to the point where many countries essentially have no military anymore but we can't do that with Russia next door.

Finland is the only country left where the vast majority of men go through military service and the immediate mobilization would be the largest (because it makes up practically all of the male population...). If any European country (including Russia) would throw everything they currently have at Finland, defender advantage would more or less guarantee Finnish victory. Of course we would not win the war if it went on for years because we'd run out of population, but even Russia does not have the immediate capability to do much in Finland (unless they proceed straight to nuclear bombs or such).

Of course Finnish military training is mostly focused on resisting Russian invasion and partisan warfare for the occupation and we don't invest at all in force projection ability since we have no expectation of going to war in Latvia or whatever. So we can't fight the kind of interventionist wars that American and Russian forces train for but we don't want to anyway. But for the kind of warfare that we prepare for we are the best and there is no way current Russia would be able to take Finland without some pretty severe brutality towards the civilian population.

[Darkis]

Finland actually has one of the strongest militaries in Europe.

Actually i'd say that Switzerland is ahead of Finland in this area, but that's my personal opinion, i may be wrong. In any case, i don't see any reason at all for a military conflict between Russia and Finland. It's that pointless.

[Deleted]

More the fool you if you think the modern Finnish defence strategy has anything to do with Mannerheim Line.



But who would EU ever need to defend itself from with this unified European army? Would it exist only to parade around, or perhaps protect us from fucking Switzerland? I mean, who, but idiot drunk on propaganda would ever think EU is under any kind of threat, so why bother with army?




I've never said that I have something against Russian civilian people, you're welcome to visit and conduct business here if you like.

Hey there gentle fellow. I didn't say you're an idiot if you have an army. I said you're an idiot if you think Russia will invade Europe.

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Finland actually has one of the strongest militaries in Europe. Everyone else has disarmed and expects NATO and America to defend them to the point where many countries essentially have no military anymore but we can't do that with Russia next door.

Finland is the only country left where the vast majority of men go through military service and the immediate mobilization would be the largest (because it makes up practically all of the male population...). If any European country (including Russia) would throw everything they currently have at Finland, defender advantage would more or less guarantee Finnish victory. Of course we would not win the war if it went on for years because we'd run out of population, but even Russia does not have the immediate capability to do much in Finland (unless they proceed straight to nuclear bombs or such).

Of course Finnish military training is mostly focused on resisting Russian invasion and partisan warfare for the occupation and we don't invest at all in force projection ability since we have no expectation of going to war in Latvia or whatever. So we can't fight the kind of interventionist wars that American and Russian forces train for but we don't want to anyway. But for the kind of warfare that we prepare for we are the best and there is no way current Russia would be able to take Finland without some pretty severe brutality towards the civilian population.

You really think this?
I mean... Seriously?

[jaakkeli]

But who would EU ever need to defend itself from with this unified European army?

The reason it would exist of course would be that when you have an overwhelmingly powerful force any competitor won't even try. If, for example, Britain, France, Russia and the United States had all allied well *before* World War I the Germans would have known that they face an overwhelming, unbeatable force and they would've had to back off. There would have been no WWI, no Bolshevik revolution and no WWII.

But instead all the countries kept waiting around and joining the war one by one on whatever side. If the winning alliance would have been gathered up before the war it wouldn't have even happened. That's the whole point of building an overwhelming alliance.

Would it exist only to parade around,

It would also occasionally bomb Arabs.

or perhaps protect us from fucking Switzerland? I mean, who, but idiot drunk on propaganda would ever think EU is under any kind of threat, so why bother with army?

The EU isn't exactly proven to be stable. The majority in a few countries (including big ones like the UK) would want to leave it and by the Lisbon treaty they have the right to a binding referendum (but the politicians get to decide whether to actually hold the referendum, ha ha). I don't see it at all unlikely that we might see another world war with some revolution like Nazis/Bolsheviks in some country taking them out of NATO and EU and allied with someone like Russia or Turkey instead.

[Deleted]

Come on now, answer me: Why would EU need any army at all?



I'd say he is a bit over enthusiastic about it, but he is right in that Russia would not be able to invade and subdue Finland without nuking us back to stone age.

Deterrence. God...

[Haven]

Come on now, answer me: Why would EU need any army at all?

Maybe because not having an army is outright stupid for any state on the planet? Certainly you can't think that it's all because of scary unpredictable Russia next door and that without Russia it would all be rainbows and butterflies?

[Deleted]

Come on now, answer me: Why would EU need any army at all?



I'd say he is a bit over enthusiastic about it, but he is right in that Russia would not be able to invade and subdue Finland without nuking us back to stone age.

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But in Djalil's world countries that are economically tied together would never threaten each other, so if we follow his line of thought any military at all would be useless.

That is called "reality" and the recent events this very thread is about show just that.
And please, do no follow my line of thought mmmmkay? Not you please.

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But why would we need to have deterrence if nothing will ever threaten EU? Are you saying that someone like Algeria or Libya might one day launch invasion of EU?

I begin to think I should have followed the other poster's advice...

[Elegiac]

But why would we need to have deterrence if nothing will ever threaten EU? Are you saying that someone like Algeria or Libya might one day launch invasion of EU?

Again, Russia. Also, relations with the US and its sphere may not remain cordial in the long term.

[Deleted]

It's sort of cute how you blush a little, mumble something and then avoid questions that show the house sized holes in your logic.

There's about 3-4 people that actually went through the bother of answering you.
Gabriel, talk to them.

[Deleted]

It's sort of cute how you blush a little, mumble something and then avoid questions that show the house sized holes in your logic.

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But Djalil said that it would be idiotic to assume Russia would ever threaten the EU. So are you saying that US might invade EU?

I actually never said that.
Aaaand your "point" suddenly vanishes... once more...

[Elegiac]

But Djalil said that it would be idiotic to assume Russia would ever threaten the EU. Or are you saying that US might invade EU?

Hardly. The advent of nuclear weaponry has precluded direct warfare between the major powers; the warfare of the future is proxy warfare between spheres of influence.

[Deleted]

I didn't ask them. I asked you.

I know it must be hard being proven wrong time after time, but you shouldn't take it personal, Gabriel.
It's page 774, and I once more gave you way more attention than you deserve. You're free to continue this "conversation" with the ones kind enough (or fool enough) to answer you.

[Deleted]

I didn't ask them. I asked you. You are the one claiming that Russia would never be threat to EU.

Never said that (lol).

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So once you are driven back to the corner, you resort to claiming to having proven me wrong (right after I quoted posts in which you contradicted yourself), claiming I'm not worth your time, hand waving and slipping away again without actually giving an answer? How typically "Djalil" of you.

Read what you quoted, than read what you're saying gabriel.
You're an embarrassment to Finnish people

[Haven]

Hardly. The advent of nuclear weaponry has precluded direct warfare between the major powers; the warfare of the future is proxy warfare between spheres of influence.

Correction: it's the warfare of today.

[jaakkeli]

You really think this?
I mean... Seriously?

If Russia invaded tomorrow, we'd have better equipment, not many fewer men, defender advantage and preparations entirely dedicated to fighting off a Russian invasion. We'd wipe the floor with Russia at first. Of course, like I said, eventually we would lose since we'd run out of population, but at first we would not be in trouble.

Remember, we can commit *everything* to defense while Russia has rebellious provinces, lots of neighbours and interfering Americans who would take advantage of it if Russia commited all its forces to attacking Finland.

You should also realize that we've done the whole Russian occupation thing before. In the Great Northern War Russia occupied Finland for a decade and Finns never ceased to fight the guerilla campaign, even though about half of the ethnic Finnish population was either massacred or carried off to slavery by the Russian occupier, the Russians burned down and looted almost the entire country and so on. We'll also have the morale advantage of knowing what to expect from Russian soldiers so Finns will volunteer in masses for suicide squads to keep the Russian soldier away from Finnish civilians while the average Russian soldier won't give a shit about the war.

[Deleted]

Correction: it's the warfare of today.

Also recent past I shall add.

[Elegiac]

Correction: it's the warfare of today.

Well, technically speaking, it's been warfare since 1945.

The reason why the EU needs an army, if proxy warfare is a thing? Armies are required to maintain the spheres of influence within which proxy wars are conducted.

[Deleted]

If Russia invaded tomorrow, we'd have better equipment, not many fewer men, defender advantage and preparations entirely dedicated to fighting off a Russian invasion. We'd wipe the floor with Russia at first. Of course, like I said, eventually we would lose since we'd run out of population, but at first we would not be in trouble.

Remember, we can commit *everything* to defense while Russia has rebellious provinces, lots of neighbours and interfering Americans who would take advantage of it if Russia commited all its forces to attacking Finland.

You should also realize that we've done the whole Russian occupation thing before. In the Great Northern War Russia occupied Finland for a decade and Finns never ceased to fight the guerilla campaign, even though about half of the ethnic Finnish population was either massacred or carried off to slavery by the Russian occupier, the Russians burned down and looted almost the entire country and so on. We'll also have the morale advantage of knowing what to expect from Russian soldiers so Finns will volunteer in masses for suicide squads to keep the Russian soldier away from Finnish civilians while the average Russian soldier won't give a shit about the war.

You're talking about a different era man. Do you realise how different warfare is today?
Are seriously taking for example ww2?