How should we act on Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

[Perkunas]

OK, I just watched the clip with the $5 billion. It was $5 billion since 1991 and has NOTHING to do with the Maidan protesters. I wonder how much Russia invested in the Ukraine during that time frame. Oh wait, Russia invested $5 billion just during the protests themselves.

It's their neighbor, one of their primary trading partners, and historically the same culture. You've been pushing Ukraine west since 1991 because you wanted to keep Russia broke and weak by alienating them from their previous allies. You're no better than the Russians.

US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe, Nuland said: “Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals. ” Nuland said the United States will continue to “promote Ukraine to the future it deserves.”

You guys are like the Soviets only better at pretending to be the good guys.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle37599.htm

[Gangresnake]

It's their neighbor, one of their primary trading partner's, and historically the same culture. You've been pushing Ukraine west since 1991 because you wanted to keep Russia broke and weak by alienating them from their previous allies. You're no better than the Russians.

5b over 23 years in Ukraine is gonna "Keep russia broke". 5b from russia during the elections on the other, totally not motivated by personal interest.
I mean, could you be more delusional.

[Perkunas]

5b over 23 years in Ukraine is gonna "Keep russia broke". 5b from russia during the elections on the other, totally not motivated by personal interest.
I mean, could you be more delusional.

No, that's just in Ukraine. How much money was spent in Eastern Europe from the 80's onward by the US? Read that in context. Alienating their former allies not just one state. Hell, you guys even funded nationalists in Yugoslavia to help break that country up and send it into civil war.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014...izing-ukraine/

A weak Russia both militarily and financially is great for American interests.

[Deleted]

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle37599.htm

I hope you don't want to get taken seriously.

Washington's Cloned Female Warmongers
....
They seem so hard and cloned - bereft of any humanity or intelligence. Presumably, these women are supposed to represent social advance for the female gender. But, far from displaying female independence, they are just a pathetic copy of the worst traits in American male politicians - aggressive, arrogant and completely arrant in their views.

They are not feminine enough is that all you can throw at them?

Regarding the taken serious part i think NOPE

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014...izing-ukraine/

The US- and EU-financed NGOs are fifth columns designed to destroy the independence of the countries in which they operate. Some pretend to be “human rights organizations.” Others indoctrinate people under cover of “education programs” and “building democracy.”

Fitting avatar btw.

[Reeve]

I hope you don't want to get taken seriously.


They are not feminine enough is that all you can throw at them?

No, she actually did say the US had invested $5 billion in the development of Ukraine's democratic institutions... since 1991.

[Perkunas]

I hope you don't want to get taken seriously.


They are not feminine enough is that all you can throw at them?

Regarding the taken serious part i think NOPE





Fitting avatar btw.

It's actually saying they are identical to their male warmongering counterparts in that country and the video is the part that I was really bringing up.

[Reeve]

It's actually saying they are identical to their male warmongering counterparts in that country and the video is the part that I was really bringing up.

Here's the video directly. Relevant comments start at 7:26:

[Perkunas]

Here's the video directly. Relevant comments start at 7:26:

Again, I know that it's from 1991 onward. There's no reason for it though. No reason to give them anything other than to push them west.

Now promising them another billion in "aid". You guys need to get out of Europe.

[Apexis]

an intervention from both the EU and the US is really required here. Honestly if not action is taken that signals the rather weak nature of both the US and EU. An unchecked Putin will definitely screw up a few things. This should be more about posturing instead of all out conflict which the posturing from the EU and US would actually prevent. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it the Ukraine wanting to buy the missile shield from the US before and Russia threw a temper tantrum?

The US has no paddle in this boat, this a EU problem and its seems as though they have no plan, because they all get something from Russia and none of them as enough guts to start a fight, they always let the US do all the dirty work and then come running afterwards if forced to help. Putin has been uncheck for a long time. He has taken measure of two weak US presidents' and the collection of EU states that could not swat a fly. Putin can pretty much do as he wants, he is thinking in 20th century Cold War mentality the rest are just reeling, because they thought the Cold War was long over. Maybe West thought the Cold War was over when the wall came down, Not Russia they did some reforms to make it like as if they turned a new leaf, but the underbelly has always been the old Soviet block mentality.

Sanctions are going to have some effect, but only minimal since the US is the only one going to do them. Ukraine is more of an EU issues, so unless those countries are willing to buck up and do something, Putin is just going to keep on rolling. If the EU is looking for help from the US other than sanctions, those options won't be on the table with Obama being in office, because he does not like or know how to take the lead on matters like this. He only acts when forced to do so and even then still has a hard time.

Ukraine is pretty much on their own in this matter and Crimea is also long gone, it will stay in Russian control.

[Reeve]

Again, I know that it's from 1991 onward. There's no reason for it though. No reason to give them anything other than to push them west.

Now promising them another billion in "aid". You guys need to get out of Europe.

Why shouldn't we want to pull them westward? They don't belong to Russia and are free to make their own choices. Things have generally been pretty good here. I know Poland and the other Baltic States are pretty happy to have moved Westward. Plus, the paltry $5 billion over 23 years we gave to the Ukraine has nothing on the influence Russia has exerted in that same time frame, so I'm not sure what makes you think our money has been particularly decisive or effective.

And Russia's free to join the Western world too. They just gotta get out of this whole ultra-authoritarian rut they seem to be in and move towards an open and free society. Plus stop trying to be a rival and start acting like a friend. Oh, and stop hating on the gays.

[Perkunas]

The US knows how to overthrow governments though. This is an established fact and 5 billion(admitted to) even over a long period has led to the result that they wanted as we can see.

As an ethnic Lithuanian I don't agree that Lithuania is better off in the EU and NATO for that matter. They should have been smart like Finland and not joined either side and simply got the benefit from being neutral. Much like Yugoslavia did with the Soviets and US during the Cold War.

I can agree about Putin though. He's a dictator and the whole anti-gay thing is moronic but that's what happens when you use religion in order to further your political goals. You have to pander to the nutters it's the same as it is in the US when it comes to those sorts.

[Deleted]

As an ethnic Lithuanian I don't agree that Lithuania is better off in the EU and NATO for that matter. They should have been smart like Finland and not joined either side and simply got the benefit from being neutral. Much like Yugoslavia did with the Soviets and US during the Cold War.

Unlike Finnland you couldn't fend off the Sowjet union alone so not NATO= Yes Russia

[Skroe]

As an ethnic Lithuanian I don't agree that Lithuania is better off in the EU and NATO for that matter. They should have been smart like Finland and not joined either side and simply got the benefit from being neutral. Much like Yugoslavia did with the Soviets and US during the Cold War.

Only reason Finland hasn't joined is because of popular opinion being against it. That said, they are so deeply intertwined with NATO that joining would be a formality. They participate in all the major missions, and are part of all the major cooperation groups and have observers on the major council. Finnish troops served under NATO command in Afghanistan. If NATO and the US were two people dating, they'd have been dating for six years, moved in with each other and bought a dog together. They haven't sealed the deal yet, but it's all but there.

In a crisis, Finland could join NATO within days. In many ways, they are where Ukraine will be in another decade.

[Perkunas]

Unlike Finnland you couldn't fend off the Sowjet union alone so not NATO= Yes Russia

What does the SSSR have to do with Yeltsin's Russia in the 90's and the early Putin years? Lithuania could have stayed out of both NATO and the EU and benefited from both sides.