[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Fredzilla]

1. "Easier" would warrant larger numbers, not smaller. "More accurate to what we will experience" would imply these are balance changes, and thus buffs/nerfs accordingly.

2. He can PSA all he wants, but numbers are still numbers. They only do one thing. Just because he wants to say that, doesn't change what numbers can do.

3. Like shits and giggles?

Seriously, though, it worries me because of our history with how xpac testing goes, and how we go live. I want to believe these numbers aren't indicative of anything I think they are, but that belief changes what numbers do in this game as much as celestalon saying not everything has been revealed.

It's possible that there are other passives or changes to procs or changes to other abilities yet to come, and I'm sure over the next several months, we'll see a lot of balance changes. But that doesn't negate the fact that number changes only exist for a finite number of reason, of which I legitimately cannot discern any beyond the two I've already mentioned.

[Megraam]

Just a friendly reminder we were promised a numbers tweaking twice: before LK and before Cata. In LK tweaking happened and we started as 2 week ret, nerfed to the ground immediately afterwards, in Cata it never happened (despite we were promised all right) and ret started 4.0. as worst dps class: any other class in game had better dps options than paladin (the situation now is about the same).

[Ryuji]

Divine Purpose - Retribution: Your Word of Glory, Templar's Verdict, and Divine Storm abilities have a 25% chance to cause the Divine Purpose effect. Divine Purpose Your next Word of Glory ability will consume no Holy Power and will cast as if 3 Holy Power were consumed. Lasts 8 sec.

I know it's a numbers pass but...wat. So no potential Divine Storm spam for aoe? ;_;

[Vintersol]

I know it's a numbers pass but...wat. So no potential Divine Storm spam for aoe? ;_;

Idk, that must be a typo or something. This change would make DP totally useless for us.

The spell changes for alpha looks..... yuck! I hope they are just kidding.

[Deleted]

Idk, that must be a typo or something. This change would make DP totally useless for us.

The spell changes for alpha looks..... yuck! I hope they are just kidding.

Perhaps it will be a passive and the tier 75 talant will be replaced by something different. Or it becomes a tier 30 talant and replaces Sacred Shield. Celestalon already said that the datamining doesn't show the entire picture. (And Ferals have a similar passive to free-cast heals, right?)

[rad586]

Celestalon said that it was "bad datamining" and DP still works with DS/TV. And that the only change it did was to "specify that it doesn't work with Seraphim".

I call shenanigans, how do you mess up your tooltips so bad that they are datamined incorrectly ? It's obvious it wouldn't work with Seraphim, because it says "will cast as if 3 Holy Power were consumed" - Seraphim requires 5.

[Vintersol]

I call shenanigans, how do you mess up your tooltips so bad that they are datamined incorrectly ? It's obvious it wouldn't work with Seraphim, because it says "will cast as if 3 Holy Power were consumed" - Seraphim requires 5.

Maybe some people thought: 2 HoPo + DP proc? xD

[rad586]

Ow, now after thinking about it, he meant the holy power spenders triggering DP. Still, I call shenanigans.

[ipoststuff]

I dont think Glyph of Merciful Wrath is meant for retribution.

Also that Final verdict damage =)

[Monoroth]

Have you seen Exo tooltip, AoW got baked into Exo we might get new effect from AoW.

Empowered Seals look even better now. SoR giving us 30% AS + raid buffs + our own haste, I guess Exo is gonna proc like crazy. Which makes me think they might leave AoW as it is or give it something else that isn't straight dmg buff to Exo.

[rad586]

Have you seen Exo tooltip, AoW got baked into Exo we might get new effect from AoW.

Empowered Seals look even better now. SoR giving us 30% AS + raid buffs + our own haste, I guess Exo is gonna proc like crazy. Which makes me think they might leave AoW as it is or give it something else that isn't straight dmg buff to Exo.

The problem with that buff to Empowered Seals is that SoR still gives ATTACK SPEED instead of HASTE.

[Reghame]

Have you seen Exo tooltip, AoW got baked into Exo we might get new effect from AoW.

Empowered Seals look even better now. SoR giving us 30% AS + raid buffs + our own haste, I guess Exo is gonna proc like crazy. Which makes me think they might leave AoW as it is or give it something else that isn't straight dmg buff to Exo.

i guess you missed the part where they nerfed base TV down, but buffed final verdict by almost half.... if anything, id say final as it stands is just waaaaaaaay to good, even more so with that new IMBA major glyph which gives us double uptime on wings, for 10% less damage during ( if you dont know, that means more hammer of wrath spam and more holy power, aka more holy TVs, which means less time which you can spend doing that stupid seal swapping shit )

i dont know what they plan on doing with SoR though, it looks even worse to AOE with this patch than it has in the past, they best figure that out before live,

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and just because the AoW tooltip is in exo now, does NOT mean it has received a new effect, if anything it could lean more towards spellbook pruning and it could simply have not changed at all

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WTB actual changes, or impactful ones outside of that final verdict talent and that new, more than likely to never make it to live, AW glyph. Everyone else seems to be getting major game changes in the alpha( when they should ) instead of us, and we need to get some changes still ( seals mechanicly are still clunky and non-interactive, our level 90talents are still very bland and unattractive, we still have no non targeted AOE outside of a finisher, and we still have a bad exo. ) i dont want it to be halfway through beta to change everything all at once and get no testing in on it and make it live doing less dps than EVERY dps spec/class/race combo possible..... im looken at you cata

[ipoststuff]

The problem with that buff to Empowered Seals is that SoR still gives ATTACK SPEED instead of HASTE.

You didnt expect 30% haste + 15% ap from this talent did you?

[Monoroth]

The problem with that buff to Empowered Seals is that SoR still gives ATTACK SPEED instead of HASTE.

That's why I said 30% AS ( Attack Speed) and AoW procs of Auto Attacks.

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i guess you missed the part where they nerfed base TV down, but buffed final verdict by almost half.... if anything, id say final as it stands is just waaaaaaaay to good, even more so with that new IMBA major glyph which gives us double uptime on wings, for 10% less damage during ( if you dont know, that means more hammer of wrath spam and more holy power, aka more holy TVs, which means less time which you can spend doing that stupid seal swapping shit )

i dont know what they plan on doing with SoR though, it looks even worse to AOE with this patch than it has in the past, they best figure that out before live,

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and just because the AoW tooltip is in exo now, does NOT mean it has received a new effect, if anything it could lean more towards spellbook pruning and it could simply have not changed at all

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WTB actual changes, or impactful ones outside of that final verdict talent and that new, more than likely to never make it to live, AW glyph. Everyone else seems to be getting major game changes in the alpha( when they should ) instead of us, and we need to get some changes still ( seals mechanicly are still clunky and non-interactive, our level 90talents are still very bland and unattractive, we still have no non targeted AOE outside of a finisher, and we still have a bad exo. ) i dont want it to be halfway through beta to change everything all at once and get no testing in on it and make it live doing less dps than EVERY dps spec/class/race combo possible..... im looken at you cata

Glyph of Merciful Wrath (New) Reduces the cooldown and effect of Avenging Wrath by 50%. Major Glyph. If it's intended to be used by rets, they'll prob nerf duration by 50% aswell, other wise glyph is way to OP. This glyph + Seraphim at high gear levels with readiness stacking would be retarded. Hammer time all over the place only at cost of 10% dmg.
I wasn't stating that Empowered Seals are the best, it just offers optional build. AoW procs of Auto Attacks SoR via ES increase our Attack Speed by 30% which means more Exos and increasing our Holy power generation. Since you are using 2 GCDs for seal dancing your gonna cut some holes in our rotation and you can prioritize mastery early into expansion over haste or some other stat. Ofc we still need to know how much haste can we reach at certain gear lvls.
FV change does look nice, I agree with that. Getting a nice finisher with that talent.

EDIT: Just imagine glyph power atm, 50% reduction on AW CD, so we have AW at 1 min cd and 30 sec duration if we take SW. Now add Seraphim to that and cut another 10-20 sec of AW ( depending on the gear), you can essentially use AW every 10-20 sec and have up to 80% uptime on AW. I just don't see it happening, this much power at cost of 10% dmg/healing.

[rad586]

You didnt expect 30% haste + 15% ap from this talent did you?

No I didn't. Attack Speed doesn't work with SoB, so all it does is increase the autoattack speed. Sure, it means more chances to proc Exorcism, but that's all.

Haste on the other hand is reducing CDs of CS, Judgment and Exo on top of increasing autoattack speed. It's far more valuable even if it was just 5% haste.

And before people start screaming "SEAL DAMAGE !!!!" let me point out, that the % of weapon damage on all seals went down with this build aswell.

[Farabee]

I really hope this gets a proper beta and we actually get listened to during it. Because right now we're heading towards another train wreck.

[ipoststuff]

No I didn't. Attack Speed doesn't work with SoB, so all it does is increase the autoattack speed. Sure, it means more chances to proc Exorcism, but that's all.

Haste on the other hand is reducing CDs of CS, Judgment and Exo on top of increasing autoattack speed. It's far more valuable even if it was just 5% haste.

And before people start screaming "SEAL DAMAGE !!!!" let me point out, that the % of weapon damage on all seals went down with this build aswell.

I'm guessing they dont want it to be haste. As prot you'd want to keep sot and soi buffs up. For pvp you'd want sot,soi,soj up. For pve you'd want sot and sor up. It's important that sor buff is useful only in ret pve. And attack speed does exactly that. Also dont understimate attack speed. They nerfed weapon damage % of all abilties. CS does 100% wep + mastery.

[anaxie]

AP powerhouse spells like HoW nerfed? FV 280% TV 185%?

this build looks terrible

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THAT SAID I can 100% guarantee you with 30% emp seals is attack speed not haste. if it is haste which is unlikely BOING.

However, Attack speed is ALOT better in WoD considering auto attacks are 100% weapon damage and CS is 100% weapon damage and TV is 185% weapon damage.
I also recall them mentioning removing of glancing blows which adds ALOT of damage towards Autos

[ipoststuff]

Emp Seals got much better for pvp. 50% hp over 20seconds, 20% movement speed, 15% ap. The problem is we dont have that many GCD to keep all up. The good thing is we wont have to. Keeping 2 of them up should be enough for the most part.

Defensive -> heal, movement speed
Offensive -> ap, movement speed
melee combat -> heal, ap

Then again there is FV. Hitting twice as seal empowered TV .

[anaxie]

Someone link the double wings uptime glyph. That is lol op. 1 min of sanc wrath and final verdict. Rip emp seals. Ain't nobody got time for that. Literally. We are gcd locked with those

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Makes u question how op reading ESS is to give a 20 second wings downtime. Hurr hurr

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To me 60 second wings n fv. What do u think well stack. Uhhh haste n mastery very likely. Or less likely? DAT inwu scaling still hurts the 0 compensation towards mastery we have seen

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Also seraph still bad emp still clunky I play the raid bosses not my rotation

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Is 30% autos worth 6 gcds a min with very likely downtime. No.

Face it emp seals is a 15% ap passive. Fv is a dou left damage finisher. And seraph is a cool on paper but terrible implementation