Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[MasterHamster]

Given the amount of people who are unhappy about this change, I think the benefits of having it gone are dubious at best. I mean, do you see many "I miss Hit and Expertise" threads?

I personally miss Hit and expertise stats myself.

However, just like with flight, the response to the removal of reforge and hit/exp stats are at best controversial.

I can easily reduce hit/exp stats to worthless stats everyone just feel they need a certain amount of.

That's the problem. MMOs suffer from math. There's always an optimal route to follow.

[Bun-Bun]

Agreed. They care when you are unhappy enough to leave. Otherwise, it's just noise to them.

Nah they don't even care then. They just delete all your forum posts because you don't agree with the Dev's "design philosophy".

[CheeseSandwich]

However, it flying was allowed everyone would skip it regardless. This is why the player dosent have the choice and why "no one skips content they want to do" makes no sense.

What would they skip? The stuff that was relevant to them? Are you saying that if someone ws flying, and saw something they wanted to do, they would skip it just cuz they were flying? That their choice to engage in that content they wanted to do was taken away because they were flying?

"Wow that down there looks cool and engaging, but I am already flying, I have no choice but to keep on flying and ignore that cool content I would be interested in partaking in".

Sounds like a flight path and not personal flying to me.

[MoanaLisa]

Fair enough, perception is reality after all. This has been a fairly sustained reaction though, not just here, but on the official forums as well, for the length that the fate of flying was up in the air. It is an issue that hasn't gone away in all that time, and that is mainly on the shoulders of Blizz not coming out and definitively stating one way or the other, and also by not coming through with what they said they were capable of doing pre-release.

Most of that quoted would apply exactly if you switched the word 'flying' out and put in CRZ instead. Which is actually the point. People are always going to be bringing this up on forums but most will adjust over time and it will sink into background noise. There are a number of things that people are reluctant to let go of. Vague statements by Blizzard about what they were capable of doing pre-release are personal judgments on whether or not they got it right. If there is to be some loud serious outburst about flying one would think it would be coming along with 6.1 or 6.2. Tanaan Jungle though seems like an unlikely candidate for a good flying experience anyway if it's mostly trees when you get up in the air. So we may be the whole expansion without it. I'm not sure I expect it to return if it gets that far.

The content argument is a little silly. There is no game content that I'm aware of in Draenor that is inaccessible without flying up to it. You can get to pretty much everything and in the rare case where you can't the glider/feather is useful. Again, it's personal choice whether or not one chooses to do it, not do it, or in my personal case of archaeology, do it when I'm in the area and only then.

- - - Updated - - -

Time will prove me a prophet or a liar, though, and I am comfortable with either tag until one is confirmed.

Having an opinion isn't being a liar. If people didn't have opinions there wouldn't be any point to forums

[DFu4ever]

No flying has lead me to less interaction with the world Blizzard designed. I tend to not fuck around or sight see while traveling anymore. I'm literally the opposite outcome from what Blizz supposedly wants.

My travel in Draenor this xpac tends to consist of...

-Garrison portal to Warspear.
-Hearthstone out of Draenor.
-Garrison hearthstone back to Garrison.
-AFK Flightpath to the absolute closest flightpoint near the Apexis daily (which I've stopped doing for the most part).
-If garrison hearthstone is on cooldown, I usually take a flightpath back and AFK or wait.

I almost never fucking do Draenor Archaeology because fuck riding around dodging shit that threatens only to make me dismount to annihilate it. Honestly, Draenor is the only place I use flightpoints. Everywhere else I use my mounts and pet battle/arch when I run into that stuff as I travel. Hell, when flying I also tend to just fuck around and take more screenshots and find cool spots.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy this xpac, but I use it's actual zones far far less than any other xpac prior to it solely due to no flying. And lord knows once the next xpac hits I'm never fucking returning.

[Armourboy]

I still think it is a slow boil issue, and that more and more people are realizing what they are missing. I agree that the initial reaction was less than some expected, but I think it is snowballing everyday. I honestly think it is becoming more polarizing, and will only build as more people realize 6.1 won't include flying. Even now there are still posts of "where is flying in patch notes" and "don't worry, flying will be back in 6.1".

Time will prove me a prophet or a liar, though, and I am comfortable with either tag until one is confirmed.

I will say I think its something you will see become a bigger issue once 6.1 hits. Everyone in my guild for instance assumed it would be available once 6.1 arrived, they were down right mad once I let them know it was announced it wouldn't be. In Trade Chat every day I see people ask about it, with the response of " don't worry its coming in 6.1". The tirades I've seen after I told them it wasn't coming have been rather interesting ( one guy actually called me a liar and berated me for being a wanna be Blizzard Dev lol).

Granted I could be wrong, but I think a pretty good number of players have been content with no flying because they thought it was coming later. I think the day 6.1 arrives and they still can't fly that's when you are going to see more players become vocal about it again.

I know for myself, I've had a enjoyable experience, but I've seen it all and done it on multiple characters. I've pretty much reached the point where I don't go out in the world because its annoying. I stopped Archeology because it was horrid with the current landscapes. I try and do as much fishing as possible in my Garrison because it too is annoying. At this point, no flying is actually reducing the amount of time I want to play, and that's never a good thing.

In the end, its just about time. Limit Tannan Jungle if you want, but open the rest up, its boring and already been seen a million times anyways.

[Deleted]

What would they skip? The stuff that was relevant to them? Are you saying that if someone ws flying, and saw something they wanted to do, they would skip it just cuz they were flying? That their choice to engage in that content they wanted to do was taken away because they were flying?

"Wow that down there looks cool and engaging, but I am already flying, I have no choice but to keep on flying and ignore that cool content I would be interested in partaking in".

Sounds like a flight path and not personal flying to me.

Everyone would skip the trash in an instance. Why? because everyone takes the easiest path.

[perasite]

No flying has lead me to less interaction with the world Blizzard designed. I tend to not fuck around or sight see while traveling anymore. I'm literally the opposite outcome from what Blizz supposedly wants.

My travel in Draenor this xpac tends to consist of...

-Garrison portal to Warspear.
-Hearthstone out of Draenor.
-Garrison hearthstone back to Garrison.
-AFK Flightpath to the absolute closest flightpoint near the Apexis daily (which I've stopped doing for the most part).
-If garrison hearthstone is on cooldown, I usually take a flightpath back and AFK or wait.

I almost never fucking do Draenor Archaeology because fuck riding around dodging shit that threatens only to make me dismount to annihilate it. Honestly, Draenor is the only place I use flightpoints. Everywhere else I use my mounts and pet battle/arch when I run into that stuff as I travel. Hell, when flying I also tend to just fuck around and take more screenshots and find cool spots.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy this xpac, but I use it's actual zones far far less than any other xpac prior to it solely due to no flying. And lord knows once the next xpac hits I'm never fucking returning.

That's pretty much me. I log in and queue for whatever I plan to run... since I'll have a 25 minute wait, I then do my Garrison stuff. Once that's done I'll use the Garrison portal to go to the AH, then Hearth to Nagrand to do stables dailies, then Garrison Hearth and run circles until my queue pops. I never explore and actually despise anything that makes me leave the Garrison because I hate riding all slow, following winding paths, coming to a canyon and spending 15 minutes finding the proper set of rocks to jump to in order to cross it, alt-tabbing to Wowhead to find a map... it's just not worth it, so I don't go. If I miss out on some Apexis because of it, oh well. If I don't get some cool mount cuz I can't be bothered to find my way around Gorgrond, oh well. I just won't experience those parts of the game because it sucks getting to them.

[Drytoast]

Everyone would skip the trash in an instance. Why? because everyone takes the easiest path.

trash is not "omg we NEED trash" great game design fella.

you don't just have trash for the sake of having fucking trash.

think of it like movies. everything in every scene means something. it was there and put in for a purpose or a reason to further propel the story forward. this is what makes great story telling. movies or books that delve into detail of shit that doesnt even fucking matter to the point of the story are considered boring and hard to watch/read.

trash is the same beast. you need it in there, but it needs to serve a purpose and it NEEDS to help with the pacing of the instance. not hurt it.

people like trash that helps tell the story/abilities of the boss encounter coming up. they don't like trash that's put in just for the fucking sake of having trash in the instance.

NOBODY LIKES THAT AND NOTHING IS GAINED.

a great example of needless trash put in for the sake of having trash, was the courtyard of ogrimaar in SoO. That was too much fucking trash, that caused too much of a lull in action causing many players to get bored, lose interest and or walk away from the game temporarily.

travelling is the same beast. you make shit take too much effort/time to get something, and suddenly that something isn't as worth it as it used to be. hampering down a player with needless travel constantly...isn't good/compelling gameplay. it's part of why people would rather sit in a garrison than go out and do activities right now in WoD.

"you know I wouldn't mind going out and farming mats..."



..."but not if I have to fucking ground mount to get there..."

that's a legit thing. And how people feel. You need to accept that.

[MasterOfNone]

The fact that so few are lashing out due to the loss of flight speaks plenty of the benefits of having flight gone.

I do not dispute the issues that 6.0 lacks world content. I just don't subscribe to the idea that making us clear content we apparently do not want to do faster (flight), will fix the issue either.

just because you don't see them on these forums or even the wow forums does not mean they don't exist. I think the real judgement will speak about flying and the current overall state of wow on the quarterly report. Until then, everything is pretty much speculation.

[Maneo]

"you know I wouldn't mind going out and farming mats..."



..."but not if I have to fucking ground mount to get there..."

that's a legit thing. And how people feel.

That is pretty much how I feel.

You need to accept that.

Minus dailies (that everyone hated) we have the exact same amount of open world content as WoD, however people are not doing it why?

These anti flight folks are so delusional and wrapped up in their own ideals that they just can't see it.

[pankind]

I didn't realize there were zones that are completely flat in WoW.



Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize the game had to cater to what annoys you.

Rogues annoy me, don't see me saying they should go.

It doesn't, Gamz asked for a subjective opinion (reason) Dreanor is better without flying. That's the one I gave.

Old zones are flat compared to Dreanor Nagrand, and other Draenor zones to a lesser extent.

[Deleted]

trash is not "omg we NEED trash" great game design fella.

you don't just have trash for the sake of having fucking trash.

think of it like movies. everything in every scene means something. it was there and put in for a purpose or a reason to further propel the story forward. this is what makes great story telling. movies or books that delve into detail of shit that doesnt even fucking matter to the point of the story are considered boring and hard to watch/read.

trash is the same beast. you need it in there, but it needs to serve a purpose and it NEEDS to help with the pacing of the instance. not hurt it.

people like trash that helps tell the story/abilities of the boss encounter coming up. they don't like trash that's put in just for the fucking sake of having trash in the instance.

NOBODY LIKES THAT AND NOTHING IS GAINED.

a great example of needless trash put in for the sake of having trash, was the courtyard of ogrimaar in SoO. That was too much fucking trash, that caused too much of a lull in action causing many players to get bored, lose interest and or walk away from the game temporarily.

travelling is the same beast. you make shit take too much effort/time to get something, and suddenly that something isn't as worth it as it used to be. hampering down a player with needless travel constantly...isn't good/compelling gameplay. it's part of why people would rather sit in a garrison than go out and do activities right now in WoD.

"you know I wouldn't mind going out and farming mats..."



..."but not if I have to fucking ground mount to get there..."

that's a legit thing. And how people feel. You need to accept that.

Regardless of if it was "worthwhile" trash or not people would skip it if they could fly. The comment about no one flies over worthwhile content is not true - they will just fly to the mob with the best loot table regardless of how worthwhile anything in between is.

[Sweetpeaz]

just because you don't see them on these forums or even the wow forums does not mean they don't exist. I think the real judgement will speak about flying and the current overall state of wow on the quarterly report. Until then, everything is pretty much speculation.

I agree, but I don't think it will matter one bit in the next release of sub numbers, we need to wait until the following one. There were many people who came back to WoD and had subs that were still in effect when these numbers were gathered, who have left or just didn't renew until later.

[Ironscroll]

I don't know. I honestly don't miss flight one bit. I have 3 100's (working on 4) I go out in the open world to farm lumber and primals quite often. I also really like some of the lesser Guild Wars 2-esque jumping puzzles in some areas.

*shrug*

Honestly flight being gone or coming back at this point doesn't matter, but it's been nice experiencing a world and not flying over it again. Just my 2 cents.


IF flight were to come back, I think I'd honestly like to see it reworked into a system kind of like Archeage's Gliders.

[Maneo]

IF flight were to come back, I think I'd honestly like to see it reworked into a system kind of like Archeage's Gliders.

I totally get your point. I didn't bother quoting your whole post though.

I have to admit that this expac has changed my mind on flight. It used to be flight at max level or nothing, now however I honestly believe flight should be delayed until the first major content patch.

As far as Archages Gliders personally I say no.

In my opinion the best thing they can do is release Tanaan Jungle w/out flight and enable flight in all the previous zones. That way there is no flight in current content, however flight is enabled in content that is still relevant.

That way both sides of the isle get what they want. To bad the anti flight people have that all or nothing approach like Blizz seems to.

[Mafic]

For me, he's still not selling anything. He's passing information on behalf of the team. Flying or no-flying is not a moving (lol-pun) point for me. I don't run out in the world to randomly see what's happening. I'm on a mission when I go out. Be it farming mats for my garrison, apexis, hunting rares, achievements etc.

His points just makes sense to me, that's all.

He is passing on his personal view. Like I said one of the rules of customer service is sometimes less is more. He is trying to make sympathetic argument as to why a bad idea is sitll good. That is not operating from a position of strength as a customer service rep when talking to a customer. I should know because I have plenty of customer service experience in my industry.

[Lane]

The number of people who appear to be really polarized over this seems to shrink every month. Perhaps some are leaving but of those that aren't a lot of them are finding that it wasn't as big of a problem as expected.

I don't view diminishing voices as being indicative of anything in this expansion. WoD has so many issues in terms of retaining player interest, no flying is but one of many chinks in a very battered armor.

It's also already been established by both sides of the fence that WoD lacks any meaningful outdoor content. I certainly wouldn't be quick to raise the victory flags when a sizable portion of the remaining playerbase appears to have simply resigned themselves to their garrisons and/or only logging on to raid. I suppose if Blizzard's goal was to deflect the importance of flying by giving players no reason to go anywhere then they've succeeded, as much of a "success" as you can call it.

Fact of the matter is, we'll likely never know. Blizzard may have some metrics they can analyze. The thought has occurred to me that the relic hunter quests being added in 6.1 are a response to decreased player participation in archaeology as well as a feeble attempt to lure people back into the world.

No flying has lead me to less interaction with the world Blizzard designed. I tend to not fuck around or sight see while traveling anymore. I'm literally the opposite outcome from what Blizz supposedly wants.

*snip*

I almost never fucking do Draenor Archaeology because fuck riding around dodging shit that threatens only to make me dismount to annihilate it. Honestly, Draenor is the only place I use flightpoints. Everywhere else I use my mounts and pet battle/arch when I run into that stuff as I travel. Hell, when flying I also tend to just fuck around and take more screenshots and find cool spots.

I believe it's often overlooked or considered inconsequential how many of the 'polarized' pro-fliers were also the types to create their own content.

[Mafic]

A lot of players are operating on the Blizzcon info about flying being available again for 6.1 We called this months ago that this will be the tsunami that Blizz will not see coming. Blizz announced the no flying for 6.1 in a reddit of all places. I rest my case.

WoW's reddit presence is tiny compared to say XX for example.

[Drytoast]

Regardless of if it was "worthwhile" trash or not people would skip it if they could fly. The comment about no one flies over worthwhile content is not true - they will just fly to the mob with the best loot table regardless of how worthwhile anything in between is.

People wouldn't be bitchy about no flight, IF it fucking added something to the game.

It doesn't.

And they didn't DO anything with this limitation either. They just put in a fucking limitation for the sake of having a limitation.

If you could say "hey because of this ground mount, now blizzard can do that cool world event like such and such"...I'd probably say, yeah...you are right. I guess it has a purpose.

But all you can say to me is "hey those fucking jumping platform puzzles that are done terrible, and look like shit as people perform them are now possible because of no flight!"

And you don't need to ask how most people feel about those one and done deals...