Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[MoanaLisa]

???

Why would this be the case unless the real arguments are something like "we removed flying to slow you down so that you explore the same content longer"? Are you saying this is their real argument?

Try quoting my entire post and some alternatives might jump out at you.

[rda]

Oh I agree with you there. More should have been done.

You aren't seeing it, are you? The limits that flying imposes onto design aren't heavy.

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Try quoting my entire post and some alternatives might jump out at you.

OK, here we go:

"People don't seem to understand that if Blizzard doesn't want to reveal their real and actual arguments for doing something they don't have to. So many people assume that everything in the game is somehow up for a vote. It isn't. They have some things they've said which people don't accept. That's fine. There has also been a bit of talk about how the engine doesn't handle flying very well. That's probably as close as you're going to get to real reasons from their side. They've done the limited things they can do with it. After a long while they've perhaps decided that flying was a mistake. They're doing something about it."

"They have some things they've said which people don't accept" is too vague.

"There has also been a bit of talk about how the engine doesn't handle flying very well" is unclear. What are you talking about here? Limited viewing distance? That's an issue on the ground as well (imagine a player on top of a hill). What else?

I don't see anything, sorry.

In sum: it's not that "Blizzard don't want to reveal their real and actual arguments" wrt no flying. It's that they don't have much of an argument. It's just something they did just because someone got a hinch.

[Deleted]

Objection your honor, leading the witness.

I could lead the witness in the opposite direction as well.



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Why on earth would you think that? Especially since in expansion 1, they added flying, it was a massive hit, then expanded it in expansion 2? And ever since flying was disallowed while leveling on pandaria, it's been nothing but an artificial timesink. Not to mention, blizzard has a bad track record with awful revisions to the game, see Root of Power in mage tree.

Unless flying is changed to become a whole interactive system of its own, that is mount combat and whatnot, something blizzard has categorically stated as impossible now, introducing the ability to freely access the axis Y (or Z?) will only limit game design.
Nothing is gained by introducing the ability to access the axis Y (or Z?) at will with no cooldown from a game design point of view, apart of course the ability itself.

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You aren't seeing it, are you? The limits that flying imposes onto design aren't heavy.

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OK, here we go:

"People don't seem to understand that if Blizzard doesn't want to reveal their real and actual arguments for doing something they don't have to. So many people assume that everything in the game is somehow up for a vote. It isn't. They have some things they've said which people don't accept. That's fine. There has also been a bit of talk about how the engine doesn't handle flying very well. That's probably as close as you're going to get to real reasons from their side. They've done the limited things they can do with it. After a long while they've perhaps decided that flying was a mistake. They're doing something about it."

"They have some things they've said which people don't accept" is too vague.

"There has also been a bit of talk about how the engine doesn't handle flying very well" is unclear. What are you talking about here? Limited viewing distance? That's an issue on the ground as well (imagine a player on top of a hill). What else?

I don't see anything, sorry.

Yes they are. And the sky is blue and water is wet.
They didn't work on it but yes, they are.

[rda]

Yes they are. And the sky is blue and water is wet.
They didn't work on it but yes, they are.

Alright, let's wait for their groundbreaking design ideas which showcase what they can do with flying removed then. How long do we have to wait by your recollection - one / two years enough?

[Deleted]

Alright, let's wait for their groundbreaking design ideas which showcase what they can do with flying removed then. How long do we have to wait by your recollection - one / two years enough?

Nothing groundbreaking. They simply have to make questing, whether through dailies or through a top end questing area, part of the endgame.

[rda]

Nothing groundbreaking. They simply have to make questing, whether through dailies or through a top end questing area, part of the endgame.

You know, we had level 90 dailies in MoP, and I don't see how they were oh-so-broken with flying.

If there's nothing groundbreaking, and it's just more of what we had already, I fail to see the reason to remove flying.

[Deleted]

You know, we had level 90 dailies in MoP, and I don't see how they were oh-so-broken with flying.

If there's nothing groundbreaking, and it's just more of what we had already, I fail to see the reason to remove flying.

You don't see how dailies were broken in mop?
You know... They don't want you to swoop in and out.

[Deleted]

Enemy players who "present an obstacle" (as in, want to fight) are so few and far between, they aren't worth talking about.

How should I read this statement? As a fact or as your opinion?

[rda]

You don't see how dailies were broken in mop?
You know... They don't want you to swoop in and out.

The only swooping there was was flying from your shrine to the quest area. Then you'd get on ground, take the quests and do them. Maaaaaybe you'd get up in the air and fly from one end of the quest area to another if you managed to run out of mobs yet still had to kill more for the quest. Where's the breakage? Right, nowhere.

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How should I read this statement? As a fact or as your opinion?

As an informed opinion. Go ask others, too. Or measure.

[Pyromelter]

People don't seem to understand that if Blizzard doesn't want to reveal their real and actual arguments for doing something they don't have to. So many people assume that everything in the game is somehow up for a vote. It isn't. They have some things they've said which people don't accept. That's fine. There has also been a bit of talk about how the engine doesn't handle flying very well. That's probably as close as you're going to get to real reasons from their side. They've done the limited things they can do with it. After a long while they've perhaps decided that flying was a mistake. They're doing something about it.

No one of us is necessarily owed any explanation for anything they do. Flying is available elsewhere in the game and perhaps someday in Draenor. That someday isn't today.

While that maybe true MoanaLisa, what that says to me is "Screw you Pyro, we're taking away flying, take it or leave it."

I have chosen to leave it. Did not buy expac, did not continue my sub. If that's how blizz wants to treat their wow customers, plenty of other games for me to play. And I play them instead.

[Deleted]

The only swooping there was was flying from your shrine to the quest area. Then you'd get on ground, take the quests and do them. Maaaaaybe you'd get up in the air and fly from one end of the quest area to another if you managed to run out of mobs yet still had to kill more for the quest. Where's the breakage? Right, nowhere.

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As an informed opinion. Go ask others, too. Or measure.

...... what?
Have you done dailies in mop?

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While that maybe true MoanaLisa, what that says to me is "Screw you Pyro, we're taking away flying, take it or leave it."

I have chosen to leave it. Did not buy expac, did not continue my sub. If that's how blizz wants to treat their wow customers, plenty of other games for me to play. And I play them instead.

That's actually a better stance than complaining while in game.
If you're not happy with the product let the wallet do the talking.

[rda]

...... what?
Have you done dailies in mop?

Yes, I did. Point me to the daily quest area that would be so much better without flying. Shado-Pan? August Celestials? Golden Lotus? What was it? Thank you.

[Deleted]

As an informed opinion. Go ask others, too. Or measure.

So it is only your opinion then. Good, I was worried that I'd have to tell people I play with that they are not worth talking about, because rda said it on mmo-c.

[Deleted]

Yes, I did. Point me to the daily quest area that would be so much better without flying. Shado-Pan? August Celestials? Golden Lotus? What was it? Thank you.

That wasn't the claim you made at all.
You claimed that swooping in and out wasn't the way things were done in mop's dailies.

[rda]

So it is only your opinion then. Good, I was worried that I'd have to tell people I play with that they are not worth talking about, because rda said it on mmo-c.

How many "world PVP encounters" do you participate in in a week? Thanks. The answer from the green chat of my alts in PVP guilds (!) on three PVP servers: zero.

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That wasn't the claim you made at all.
You claimed that swooping in and out wasn't the way things were done in mop's dailies.

When you have something specific to say about MoP dailies or whatever, wake me up. So far it's just "but you said bla bla" implying this isn't true without any specifics and leaving the main argument of the thread / discussion.

[Deleted]

How many "world PVP encounters" do you participate in in a week? Thanks. The answer from the green chat of my alts in PVP guilds (!) on three PVP servers: zero.

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When you have something specific to say about MoP dailies or whatever, wake me up. So far it's just "but you said bla bla" implying this isn't true without any specifics and leaving the main argument of the thread / discussion.

I'm in a world pvp guild in defias brotherhood. There's a few of us.
Plenty of pvp all the time, if you're looking for it.

so... you first come up with a claim then dismiss it all by yourself?

[rda]

I'm in a world pvp guild in defias brotherhood. There's a few of us.
Plenty of pvp all the time, if you're looking for it.

so... you first come up with a claim then dismiss it all by yourself?

Oh, of course, if you are going out to the world in order to kill some red nameplates, you will have your PVP. I am asking about how much of that PVP you get when you aren't looking for it. Answer: about as much as in MoP. That is, almost none. Because next to nobody is interested.

[-Superman-]

How is flying/no flying exactly speeding/slowing end game in WoD?

Flight has nothing to do with instanced end game and everything to do with open world end game. Without flight in the open world end game, travel is slowed, redirected, and inconvenienced. Anyone who can't see that isn't looking, and if they are looking, they are looking in another direction and turning a blind eye and playing dumb. We've already established all of the reasons to have flight in the open world end game for people at max level who do not just queue/play instances.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

While that maybe true MoanaLisa, what that says to me is "Screw you Pyro, we're taking away flying, take it or leave it."

I have chosen to leave it. Did not buy expac, did not continue my sub. If that's how blizz wants to treat their wow customers, plenty of other games for me to play. And I play them instead.

I see this as the only valid proflght argument that carries any merit. Trying to convince others of 'lies' and 'conspiracy' about the subject just fails to carry weight if you are still a supportive customer. Why continue being so valuable to a company that you believe to be so full of shit. Why continue to play a game so ruined by these turn of events. It all points to one thing. It really isn't as big of a deal as your mmo champion avatar claims it to be. Sure you may want flying and sure you liked it better when you could but end of the day the product appears to still be worth your time and money. Not to mention the endless hours some of you even spend out of game generating hits on fan sites which generates more buzz for the game.

[-Superman-]

I know some people in this thread are disappointed with how Blizzard didn't really take advantage of not having flight in WoD, but I think they'll take this experience and do a much better job designing a world with no flight in the next expansion.

Not to sound mean, but YOU WISH. They had a chance to improve on Wrath in Cataclysm and failed. They had a chance to improve with MoP and broke even. They barely just broken even with WoD.

They've been telling you for 8 years they will improve flight paths, and have barely made progress.
They've been telling you for 8 years they will improve class balance, and came close once.
They've been telling you for 8 years they will improve character models, and now gnomes run like derps, human fems look like crack whores, and belfs still aren't even in the game.

If your only goal is to stand up for them and encourage what they will do in the next expac, as a former fanboy and white knight for Blizz, I'd love to welcome you into a private chat in an effort to wake you up and open your eyes.

Disabling flight at max level was a mistake. Leaving it out for two full patches so they could play catch up was an even bigger mistake. Period.