Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Ordinator]

Well, since it takes 120 seconds to travel across the island for a Rare and 14 seconds for the person with the Addon to kill it, I don't see much fun in the isle without mounts. Maybe with them, I could get into more groups for dropping rares on the island. Then again, that might just speed up the kills and lengthen the respawns. The more I think about it, Timeless Isle is shitty all the way around. And people like you want all of WoD to be like this?

I feel sorry for anybody who views the game this one dimensionally. Timeless isle wasn't made with the sole intent of mindless rare farming. If you would wipe the tears from your eyes from not being able fly fron one rare spawn to the next, you might find theres plenty of fun things to do there.

[-Superman-]

One of the main reasons I am looking forward to it is because of no flying, gathering professions are going to get WAY more gold from Auctions because there's more time involved killing mobs to get to them and it also feels more rewarding getting them when you have to actually work for it.

It's a video game. If you think of it as work, you're crazy. I play games to relax, not cause I need a 2nd job.

[khalltusk]

Early Cata yes, but after the nerfs like...1 or 2 month later was a mega casual game.
A friend of mine killed Deathwing with a couple of noobs in LFR just like it was nothing. Made him depressed how easy it was and left.
World of casualcraft was born in Cataclym (the irony) the games's difficulty cant be the reason why the game suffered in subs lol xD

I think, but we never know :S



LFR was created on Cataclysm, go do your homework xD

I know I said LFD you really need to learn to read LFR came out for DS and helped stablise subs that were falling during Cata. Like I said you might want to read up a bit before posting as you're looking silly now. I notice you take out the rest of my post as you have no answer to it correct?

[RumlyD]

You gave a shitty reason and I refuted it and provided other options you failed to read into that and instead cannot discuss it for some reason :/ Please re-read and come back to me.

Oh dear. Never mind.

[urasim]

First the game was not made popular with convenience. The peak of convenience was reached on Cataclysm and that's when subs started droping.

How is cata the peak of convenience? Each expansion has added something convenient that destroyed an aspect of WoW.

[khalltusk]

Oh dear. Never mind.

Never mind what?

I did suggest instead of removing flying because to some people it makes the world feel small. If you slow flying down or make it so you're able to fly for a limited time (so say a buff for 50 seconds of flight for example and 4min cd or something). You could add areas where its a no fly zone because a turret will take you down after 30 seconds. There are a lot of creative ways to deal with this.

I did say I will reserve ultimate judgement until release to see what they come up with, but removing flying only to make the world feel a bit biggers a bit of a piss take. If you don't want to discuss the above fair enough.

[urasim]

Early Cata yes, but after the nerfs like...1 or 2 month later was a mega casual game.
A friend of mine killed Deathwing with a couple of noobs in LFR just like it was nothing. Made him depressed how easy it was and left.
World of casualcraft was born in Cataclym (the irony) the games's difficulty cant be the reason why the game suffered in subs lol xD

Only hard things in wrath were ulduar hardmodes and then the heroics for ToC and ICC. Everything else was puggable. There wasn't a single pug for any end boss in cata. LFR doesn't count as real raiding.

[-Superman-]

I know I said LFD you really need to learn to read LFR came out for DS and helped stablise subs that were falling during Cata. Like I said you might want to read up a bit before posting as you're looking silly now. I notice you take out the rest of my post as you have no answer to it correct?

Pretty sure she just makes shit up. "Herp derp my friend took teh noobz into teh LFR and pwned it." Riiiight.

[cabyio]

It's a video game. If you think of it as work, you're crazy. I play games to relax, not cause I need a 2nd job.

Easy == Not Fun

[urasim]

Easy == Not Fun

Fun is subjective.

Where did he say the games have to be easy to be fun?

[Deleted]

Pretty sure she just makes shit up. "Herp derp my friend took teh noobz into teh LFR and pwned it." Riiiight.

Lol i swear is true, one of my best friends paid to play end Cataclysm, queued for LFR, instantly was placed on a group almost on Deathwing, one shoted him and got the epic druid staff that transforms you into a Flame Cat form.

He did a derp face....and left xD

I totally forgot about the casual community at the time i was totally oblivious about the fact people were leaving in Cata because it was hard at release.
But there is also a leaving community that hates easy mode content, so some kind of balance is needed.

omg dont get me started on this topic, o hate the PVE of MoP
But whatever, i hate PVE anyway...i love the world, world pvp, rare mobs, chests, exploration, social quest hubs. i will choose this over PVE anyday.

[khalltusk]

Pretty sure she just makes shit up. "Herp derp my friend took teh noobz into teh LFR and pwned it." Riiiight.

Yes appears I fell into said persons clever trap.

As for flying, I think you can really make it fun but not make it trivialise ground mounts (which some of them are fucking awesome but can't compete due to not being able to fuck off into the sky and fly and I would say is a legit concern). First you slow down flying speed in Draenor as a test. Put the speed between 80-100% speed so it does not butcher ground mount speed.

Then you make places that have cliff areas you can only get to by flying make interesting objectives (rare mobs with good loot or an arena chest that spawns every 3 hours with cool loot that people fight over think gurubashi 2.0) You can also make certain cave areas that lead to a part of the zone that flying mounts cannot get to as well so you make people use ground mounts but in a smart way.

Those are ideas off the top of my head and imo seem better than just removing flying altogether.

[-Superman-]

Easy == Not Fun

and for me

Work == Not fun.

See how things are subjective? Challenges should be reserved for raids, dungeons, BGs, and other locations. Difficulty should not be added to "picking herbs".

- - - Updated - - -

Yes appears I fell into said persons clever trap.

Most of these people have, which is why I stopped talking to her.

[cabyio]

Where did he say the games have to be easy to be fun?

It's a video game. If you think of it as work, you're crazy. I play games to relax, not cause I need a 2nd job.

^^ Right there. If you don't have to work at something (read: Easy) then it can't be rewarding.

[-Superman-]

Fun is subjective.

Where did he say the games have to be easy to be fun?

You'll have to excuse him. He just randomly interprets shit. 240 pages in this thread, and I am the ONLY person he responds to. He's my stalker.

[cabyio]

See how things are subjective? Challenges should be reserved for raids, dungeons, BGs, and other locations. Difficulty should not be added to "picking herbs".

I don't know that:

1. Taking a bit more time than usual.
2. Having to kill a few mobs.

Counts as challenge. More "slight inconvenience".

[Edoran]

I didn't realize picking herbs became more difficult without flying. Maybe less accessible. You're still right clicking on a sparkling plant. And if anything, you'll be making more money because without flying mounts, the raw mats market will probably skyrocket (without knowing how farming on your garrison will work).

Most people who play games like WoW like to be rewarded for their efforts, not handed stuff. Then again, maybe you're the wrong person to try to explain that to. Blizzard has gone out of their way to please people like you (like allowing you to pick herbs from your mount because people complained about druid flight form).

Come on now.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know that:

1. Taking a bit more time than usual.
2. Having to kill a few mobs.

Counts as challenge. More "slight inconvenience".

When people see a convenience in danger of being removed, they freak out, or at least that's what this thread is making me believe. It's sad that not flying around to farm herbs anymore would be seen as a "challenge." I guess we see why this game has gotten easier over the years.

[Giscoicus]

I don't know that:

1. Taking a bit more time than usual.
2. Having to kill a few mobs.

Counts as challenge. More "slight inconvenience".

It's a challenge when you are under geared and bad, try barreling through the mobs and then get a ton of them on you.

[urasim]

^^ Right there. If you don't have to work at something (read: Easy) then it can't be rewarding.

There isn't a single mention there that he thinks games have to be easy to have fun. There isn't even a mention of difficulty whatsoever.

[Giscoicus]

Yes appears I fell into said persons clever trap.

As for flying, I think you can really make it fun but not make it trivialise ground mounts (which some of them are fucking awesome but can't compete due to not being able to fuck off into the sky and fly and I would say is a legit concern). First you slow down flying speed in Draenor as a test. Put the speed between 80-100% speed so it does not butcher ground mount speed.

Then you make places that have cliff areas you can only get to by flying make interesting objectives (rare mobs with good loot or an arena chest that spawns every 3 hours with cool loot that people fight over think gurubashi 2.0) You can also make certain cave areas that lead to a part of the zone that flying mounts cannot get to as well so you make people use ground mounts but in a smart way.

Those are ideas off the top of my head and imo seem better than just removing flying altogether.

But then flying is still better. A flyin mount can get to those points, but a ground mount can't. Flying mounts will still be preferable. The only way to balance them would be an extreme speed nerf, to compensate for it avoiding mobs and landscape.

- - - Updated - - -

There isn't a single mention there that he thinks games have to be easy to have fun. There isn't even a mention of difficulty whatsoever.

He says games should not have work, and be relaxing.

Challenge is not relaxing. Challenges challenge you. He was pretty clear in that he doesn't want challenge in any part of his gameplay.

Sorry he didn't say verbatim that it has to be easy, but when he says challenge should be confined to small portions of the game, specifically those he doesn't take part in, he is saying that he wants his game easy.