Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Giscoicus]

Flight is indeed a major staple in the game. Second only to dual spec in request from gamers. You keep thinking it's some minor feature worth over-looking and easily removed like cauldrons but you couldn't be more wrong. It's integrated into the game and has been for 7 years. The entire game got a redesign so flying could happen in old content.

Flying is a major selling feature of the game. It supports the cash shop as well as individual players play style while still allowing those that want to ride on teh ground the ability to do so. Is ground less convenient, sure but if you love it you still have the best of both worlds. Fly when you need to be competitive, ride on the ground when you want to have some personal enjoyment and no be so competitive. Your choice. Removing flying allows only one choice and thats unacceptable at this point in the game given how long flying has been in game at max level.

At this point, flight is a major staple of WOW and a huge money maker. Design the game with it and around it, takes a little more effort but given past results when it was added, is well worth it on the return.




Not by blizzard own words it seems. We know flight makes them work harder, have to create larger expansive areas and fill those areas with places to go, things to see, just for you to fly across with some amount of time attached to it and not feel too small. Removing flying allows them to create smaller area, that way, ground mounts don't have to travel as far.

Removing flying is a scapegoat so blizzard doesn't have to put in the extra effort it would take to design content around flying. It's just simpler to remove it and thats wrong in my book.

The game got a redesign so that you didnt have players in old dev areas, which were left in Azeroth pre-cataclysm. They designed the game to support it, but the limits of the engine and game design means designing "around" flight isnt going to happen. Only tiny clusters have ever used flight for gameplay, and that is at the cost of every other area being diminished by flying over it.

Flying is not the major selling point of the game, as flying isnt gameplay. Flying is a major selling point of a flight simulator. It was not as requested as you seem to believe as there was little precedent for flight in MMOs when WoW was entering TBC, very few had it. On the other hand, the dual spec was requested because having PvP and PvE specs, or dps vs healer spec rather than a hyrbid or changing out constantly was positive for gameplay, as one boss could need 3 healers and the next 2.

Quit acting like there is a choice when the options are unequal. Remember the "choice" in old talent trees? Those are gone too. Having choice is good, having psuedo choice is redundant, and keeping a choice just for the sake of having there be choice is ridiculous. Flying will always be superior to ground based travel, that isnt a choice. Thats the equivalent of a choice between a unicycle and a bicycle for transportation, you dont ride unicycles to get around, you ride unicycles for preforming. Nobody looking to get around will ride a unicycle over a bicycle. Flying does not support my playstyle, as I want to travel on the ground without being gimped. It supports skipping over everything you possibly can.

[Barkloud]

This is where your problem lies. You hear an interview and something Blizzard is thinking about and consider it an "announcement." Unless they post it on their Twitter, officially state it, or it's in the patch notes you can pretty much think about anything they say as speculation. This is why we can't have nice things anymore; Blizzard reps can't say anything without it being taken out of context.

The official word has always been and still is that flying is gone until 6.1. Anything they've mentioned about "playing it by ear" and "we'd like to see how the community reacts" isn't official information, it's just them discussing what they'd like to see in the future. There are tons of things that Blizzard Devs have talked about taking an interest in that haven't come to fruition. It's always possible that no-flying could be the next one.

Regardless of how all this commotion regarding flying got started, it is here. I find it interesting Blizzard has opted to stay silent on the issue.

Blizzard is typically pretty quick to squash rumors.

This is a biggie. I can only speak for myself, but i am waiting on buying WoD until i find out if flying is going to be in the game.

Normally i am held captive by WOW as not too many other decent mmo's are on the market. That is not the case any longer. SWTOR, RIFT and GW2 have stepped it up. Secret World is on a new branding campaign. Wild Star is about to be released and ESO is already released.

Do not get me started on the ArcheAge sandbox that looks pretty cool. i have been watching the ArcheAge streams on twitch.tv, it is looking pretty cool. Shoot even Lord British himself is jumping back into the game with Shroud of the Avatar.

Let us not forget other MMO's such as Day Z that have insane immersion.

THe competition in the MMO is getting super super heavy.

[Giscoicus]

That happens only during leveling though. During leveling you have quest areas to go to some nodes to harvest while on your around etc. When you finish leveling in previous expansions and get flight you move into end game content (so raids dungeons and farming nodes etc).

Only one of them required you to really travel on a mount as the others it was easy enough to get portals/flight paths to those places (before LFD/LFR). Currently with queue systems all you have done is taken away a faster form of travel for people wanting to farm resources. You won't suddenly go out into the world once you are leveled (aside from Garrisons and the new PVP zone if the incentives are there).

How has removing flying changed any of that? If anything it might deter people from going out into the world as it will be CBA mode.

No, helicopter questing happened during dailies in MoP as well. Helicoptering around happened while doing Lorewalker rep or w/e rather than actually traveling, helicoptering around happened during battlefield barrens, it happened during 5.1 when the dailies were outside, it happens every time we go outside because it is faster.

You do, however, go out into the world. From a preview, we saw the profession help from Garrisons will be very limited, 2 ore an hour? That is a stack a day, thats nothing, you will want to be gathering for materials. We also have data mined events, which, whether they are as dynamic as GW2 events, or simple like the Brew event on Timeless isle, will have people out in the world. They said they don't want dailies, but its not like they are going to remove reputations, so there will be reason to be out in the world. I believe they mentioned that you have to discover the dungeon at least once before you can queue for it, not sure if this is true or not. You will need to reach raids as well if you wish to use them.

Sure some people might plop down in Bladespire of Karabor, but that will only hurt their character. And frankly, if people only go out when its easy to do so, they dont care very much about the rewards or gameplay for it.

[-Superman-]

Flying will always be superior to ground based travel, that isnt a choice.

Guess Blizz should have considered that before they redesigned the entire game to allow flying.

[Edoran]

Guess Blizz should have considered that before they redesigned the entire game to allow flying.

Who says they didn't? It definitely seems like they thought it was a good idea at the time and have since changed their tune. The fact that there is a lot of debate and 295 pages here of people arguing back and forth, including many who agree with reverting the game back to a previous state, indicates it's at least worth exploring as an option, which is EXACTLY what they said.

[-Superman-]

Who says they didn't? It definitely seems like they thought it was a good idea at the time and have since changed their tune. The fact that there is a lot of debate and 295 pages here of people arguing back and forth, including many who agree with reverting the game back to a previous state, indicates it's at least worth exploring as an option, which is EXACTLY what they said.

Convenient for them...

[Edoran]

Convenient for them...

I don't get it. Convenient to try something out that the playerbase may like? That's bad?

I'm sorry, but you seem so entitled. Like they can't take flying away because YOU like it. If they take it or leave it, I'll play and be happy. Some people seem intent on throwing fits and "threatening" to quit if they don't get their way. That makes for a pretty weak argument.

Maybe you'll find out in time you actually enjoy Draenor without flying. Maybe the anti-fliers in here will end up realizing they miss flying. Blizz obviously has a plan so let's see it play out before we get all crazy.

[Kazgrel]

I don't get it. Convenient to try something out that the playerbase may like? That's bad?

I'm sorry, but you seem so entitled. Like they can't take flying away because YOU like it. If they take it or leave it, I'll play and be happy. Some people seem intent on throwing fits and "threatening" to quit if they don't get their way. That makes for a pretty weak argument.

Maybe you'll find out in time you actually enjoy Draenor without flying. Maybe the anti-fliers in here will end up realizing they miss flying. Blizz obviously has a plan so let's see it play out before we get all crazy.

You must've missed most if not all of the previous near 300 pages of this thread. Been crazy for a while.

For anyone that preordered prior to the interview in the OP here, you can submit a ticket for a refund. Boosted character access will be frozen, though.

[-Superman-]

Like they can't take flying away because YOU like it.

Well then, let me go back a page and show you why:

As a casual gamer, I enjoy flight. Flying mounts have always been a passion for me in the game. Whether it was the Engineering Turbo-Charged Flier, the Tailor's Magic Carpets, or the extremely large proto-drakes gained from Wrath raiding/heroics. When I first got into the game, I had a hard time focusing on anything as movement in TBC was so slow. Getting to lvl 40 took 2 months, and I barely had the 300g needed to buy my first nightsaber and riding training.

After a few more levels, I headed to Shimmering Flats to get my Carrot On A Stick to go with my Mithril Spurs just to increase my movement speed. Once I hit 60, and got my fast kitty, I was thrilled to be moving at such a fast pace. I would go and run for hours on that mount, just exploring the world. Then, level 70 came, and my world changed.

After almost 6 months at level 70, I had the 5000g I needed to get my one Epic flying mount and really understand what flight speed was all about. 150 was nice, but 280 was amazing! I could finally fly from Shadowmoon Valley to Netherstorm in 8 minutes, rather then 18 by way of the long scenic route which took me through 5 zones. Each time I would return to Darnassus, I would look at that purple colored token in my bag and jump for joy at my next chance to click it. If nothing else stayed in those 16 slot bags, my mount was going nowhere. Enter Wrath of the Lich King.

Large proto drakes and epic deadly glowing drakes filled the skies as more and more raiders completed content. Bloodbathed Frostbrood Vanquisher and Ironbound Proto-Drake were among the many mounts now making their appearance in Dalaran. People would stop in awe of the newest additions to the realm. It was a sight to see. But, Blizz Devs had a new trick up their sleeve that would bring flying to its pinnacle. Enter The Cataclysm.

The skybox was changed, the day and night cycles modified, and the world would now know flying had arrived. For hours after getting my Druid out of Gilneas, I would take my Gnome, hop in the Turbo charged flying machine, and explored each zone. I already had my Explorer's title and colors from the previous expansion, but now it was time to view all of the destruction brought by the Cataclysm (also for the achievement), and finally an opportunity to see places from a completely new perspective. The large mountain ranges separating the Barrens, from Mulgore, from Stone Talon, and the new crevace filled with lava separating the two halves. Viewing the complete destruction was not the same on the ground. The complete devastation of the Barrens and Badlands is only comprehensible from a bird's eye view.

Then, Pandaria. Though I am not a fan of Pandaren, nor Asian culture in general, I did find the lanscapes and graphical representations to be breath taking. After my 5th time leveling to 90, I was done. I was ready to settle in to my own personal endgame, and go do what I needed to do. I cleared each zone and completed my 3rd Loremaster title. I cleared most of my Archaeology achievements. I collected more than 400 unique battle pets. I farmed rep with 5 different factions just for recipes. Through it all, I did 99% of it while flying my new Cloud Serpents, or Red Cloud Disc. Whether it was Dailies at the Pagoda, or fishing near Mt. Neverest, I was in the air and on my way.

Now, in my "retirement", I've moved from my former PvE home to Scarlet Crusade, an RP realm not CRZ'd with MoonGuard. I log into Doyle, my Gilnean Druid, shift into my Storm Crow form, and fly out to Krasarang Wilds to pirch above Nat Pagle, listen to the sounds of the water, and watch others fish for a bit. Then, with wings spread wide, I glide over to the Dread Wastes and gather Rain Poppy, Fools Cap, and other specific herbs to stack and sell in the AH. When it is all done, I hearth back to the Shrine, take the portal to Darnassus, and meet up with my Druid brethren for some well constructed RP to discuss the current situation and our slighted views about Wrathion.

Not everyone is a raider who will sit in the city on a flying mount waiting for a queue to pop. Not everyone is waiting for a BG or Arena. Not everyone is sitting on a drake waiting for a 5 man queue to launch. There are other purposes for flying mounts, and for flight forms. As a Druid, part of my class is the ability to become a storm crow, and either take off to explore, or follow someone to an undisclosed location to learn the nature of their dastardly plot (RP - chasing theives). If flight it not allowed in Draenor after 6.1, a very core piece of my RP, of my character class is ruined. The Tanaan Jungle is ripe with places for a Storm Crow to fly through, land, and become part of the nature around him. Frostfire Ridge holds GIANT volcanoes which tower above the snowy region below. Spires of Arak, high above the trees towers a landscape rarely seen by outsiders: impossibly tall rock spires too steep to scale. Home of the Arakkoa looking down to those below.

Without flight, all of these wonders are reduced to a view 3 meters tall. The sheer size and beauty of these landscapes are seldom appreciated from a single view, a ground mounted view. Taking to the skies, and seeing the wonder of the world laid out below us is a gift too precious to ignore, and to me, too necessary to remove. The world may seem larger from the ground, but it looks bigger from the sky.

This is why I do not want flight permanently removed. A huge part of my experience, my game, my nostalgia, has been on the back of a flying mount or in Storm Crow flight form. I do NOT visit zones where there is no flying for just this reason. Tol Barad, Vash'Jir, Azuremyst Isle, Ghostlands, Silvermoon City, The Exodar, etc. I went once, I got my achieves and did the quests, and NEVER returned. If there is no flying in a zone, I have no interest in being there. I hope this helps clear things up.

[seebs]

No flying would be the best thing to happen to this game.

The game feels to small with flying.
World PvP has become inexistent because of it
Zones don't immerse that much because ur hovering above the canopy
Traveling is not exploring zones, rather than just hit Numblock, Open Map, and steer the direction u want to go.

I'd totally support this. Let WoW feel grand and immersive again.

world pvp started going away once AV/WSG (aka, instanced BGs) were introduced, not flying. and traveling isn't exploring? yes, instead of numlock, open map and steer, it's click flightmaster, click destination and afk. Or, if you're like me, port around.

people's "immersion" excuse is getting old

[Giscoicus]

Guess Blizz should have considered that before they redesigned the entire game to allow flying.

Well its a good thing they are considering it going forward, isnt it?

Now there will be zones with flying superior, and zones where ground mounts will actually be the best choice.

- - - Updated - - -

world pvp started going away once AV/WSG (aka, instanced BGs) were introduced, not flying. and traveling isn't exploring? yes, instead of numlock, open map and steer, it's click flightmaster, click destination and afk. Or, if you're like me, port around.

people's "immersion" excuse is getting old

Stop this. WPvP didnt end with instances BGs. Player arranged PvP ended with BGs.

For a long time afterwards, spontaneous skirmishes would occur in the world, and still do. The issue is that at max level you can completely avoid any chance of fighting others, and if you do find somebody, a CC can be enough time to mount up and fly absolutely anywhere in no time, so you cannot chase after them

[wow2011]

This is why I do not want flight permanently removed. A huge part of my experience, my game, my nostalgia, has been on the back of a flying mount or in Storm Crow flight form. I do NOT visit zones where there is no flying for just this reason. Tol Barad, Vash'Jir, Azuremyst Isle, Ghostlands, Silvermoon City, The Exodar, etc. I went once, I got my achieves and did the quests, and NEVER returned. If there is no flying in a zone, I have no interest in being there. I hope this helps clear things up.

I believe your usage of flying mount is as rare as heroic raiders. If Blizzard simply allow players to port by clicking anywhere on their screen or on the map + invulnerability after teleporting so mobs won't agro then flying mount will become obsolete the same way ground mount became obsolete. You might still mount up and fly around but I am pretty sure vast majority of the playerbase will start teleporting around and never touch flying mount again.

[urasim]

Stop this. WPvP didnt end with instances BGs. Player arranged PvP ended with BGs.

For a long time afterwards, spontaneous skirmishes would occur in the world, and still do. The issue is that at max level you can completely avoid any chance of fighting others, and if you do find somebody, a CC can be enough time to mount up and fly absolutely anywhere in no time, so you cannot chase after them

World PvP is dead because no one wants to go out and do it. Because there is no reason to do so. There is no reward for going out and starting a fight. All you see in the world is assholes who think they are good for killing low level players. Most of the time its those assholes that run from a good fight once the lowbie logs on his/her main.

[Giscoicus]

World PvP is dead because no one wants to go out and do it. Because there is no reason to do so. There is no reward for going out and starting a fight. All you see in the world is assholes who think they are good for killing low level players. Most of the time its those assholes that run from a good fight once the lowbie logs on his/her main.

WPvP persisted in classic zones through Wrath.

The reward is that you beat the person and continue on, you can rarely avoid them, so fleeing or winning were your choices. When you were out in the world, the reward for fighting is that you could continue onwards. Now, anytime there is conflict, people flee instantly.

[urasim]

WPvP persisted in classic zones through Wrath.

The reward is that you beat the person and continue on, you can rarely avoid them, so fleeing or winning were your choices. When you were out in the world, the reward for fighting is that you could continue onwards. Now, anytime there is conflict, people flee instantly.

You mean the really, really rare times where you see a lowbie and kill them in the world? Yeah, you can go camp the dark portal and if you like having zero challenge. WPvP is dead, bro. Time to move on. Even with no flight in three zones this expansion there was little to no WPvP. The censor shit was good for a few days, but that died out quick after everyone got their mounts.

I dare you to record some decent fights right now and post them on youtube. WPvP, good fights not hunting low level characters, died when instance PvP came out.

I am a huge PvPer and loved WPvP, and I was a one week off from high warlord... But, WPvP, as much as I tried finding it, was no where to be seen after WSG, AV, and AB came out.

[Callace]

I believe your usage of flying mount is as rare as heroic raiders. If Blizzard simply allow players to port by clicking anywhere on their screen or on the map + invulnerability after teleporting so mobs won't agro then flying mount will become obsolete the same way ground mount became obsolete. You might still mount up and fly around but I am pretty sure vast majority of the playerbase will start teleporting around and never touch flying mount again.

Their motive for removing flight in future content is so that it takes longer to consume. There will be no instant-port system.

Furthermore, people don't want to pay for the F2P model.

- - - Updated - - -

THe competition in the MMO is getting super super heavy.

Or at least it will be if Blizz continues to clone their game after the competition. They're going to corner themselves to the point where the sub only pays for the name on the box.

[Giscoicus]

You mean the really, really rare times where you see a lowbie and kill them in the world? Yeah, you can go camp the dark portal and if you like having zero challenge. WPvP is dead, bro. Time to move on. Even with no flight in three zones this expansion there was little to no WPvP. The censor shit was good for a few days, but that died out quick after everyone got their mounts.

I dare you to record some decent fights right now and post them on youtube. WPvP, good fights not hunting low level characters, died when instance PvP came out.

I am a huge PvPer and loved WPvP, and I was a one week off from high warlord... But, WPvP, as much as I tried finding it, was no where to be seen after WSG, AV, and AB came out.

Except that there was a fair amount of PvP on the Timeless Isle even on Normal/RP realms, and still is. Last tuesday I got 30 or so bloody coins, and today I expect about the same. It hasnt "died out" there just isnt swathes of butthurt in the general chat anymore

Good fights persisted as long as it was better to fight than mount up, because mounting could only let you flee. When flight allowed you to bypass players, nobody stopped to fight, as it just took longer. You are never going to find player arranged PvP again, but you will still find others in the world to fight, and without flight it isnt as simple as mounting up to fly over you if you stand between them and a NPC

[Destruktion]

Well then, let me go back a page and show you why:



This is why I do not want flight permanently removed. A huge part of my experience, my game, my nostalgia, has been on the back of a flying mount or in Storm Crow flight form. I do NOT visit zones where there is no flying for just this reason. Tol Barad, Vash'Jir, Azuremyst Isle, Ghostlands, Silvermoon City, The Exodar, etc. I went once, I got my achieves and did the quests, and NEVER returned. If there is no flying in a zone, I have no interest in being there. I hope this helps clear things up.

Heh, your post (the longer one) has inspired me to roll on an RP realm. No joke.

[rebecca191]

I don't get it. Convenient to try something out that the playerbase may like? That's bad?

I'm sorry, but you seem so entitled. Like they can't take flying away because YOU like it. If they take it or leave it, I'll play and be happy. Some people seem intent on throwing fits and "threatening" to quit if they don't get their way. That makes for a pretty weak argument.

Maybe you'll find out in time you actually enjoy Draenor without flying. Maybe the anti-fliers in here will end up realizing they miss flying. Blizz obviously has a plan so let's see it play out before we get all crazy.

They can take whatever the heck they want away, but if they want to take flying away, they will not get another penny of my money, ever.

I mean, people are entitled to be pretty entitled about how they spend their money, yeah? If they hate something they are entitled to not pay for it and to give their feedback about why they are no longer paying to play the game. Too bad you don't get a little box to put your reason in if you were using account time from the Blizz website store rather than a monthly subscription.

[Captainn]

I'm still pretty excited about no flying. But it will get old pretty fast. I don't see it lasting long