Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[wow2011]

They don't have the skill or creativity to do it if they wanted to. All the more reason you can expect the status quo in the next expansion.

In my opinion, I believe it's that players just like the power flying mount provides and anything affecting that generates negative feedback. 3D combat in vashjr and 4wind was really nice to me personally speaking. I also never dodged oculus as that was 1 of the fastest heroics for people who knows what to do.

No need to insult Blizzard's skill and creativity. As a gaming company, they are better than many other companies out there and have created some long lasting successful IPs.

[TyrianFC]

Hang on junior. You can speak for you and the other two, but no one gave you permission to speak for everyone. I am a fan of features being ADDED to games, not removed. I personally would enjoy some aerial content.

You could still enjoy some aerial content in specially designed questing events. Maybe Timeless isle style puzzles, maybe Cata jousting style in the firelands mini-instanced zone. Random stuff like that to throw you enough of a bone to shut you up.

But you dont, however, need flying in the entire greater game overall everywhere to 'enjoy some aerial content'. You want it though, and there's a difference.

[-Superman-]

You have seen a ton of cool and innovative deployments in terms of quests, raids, shiny effects and spell changes during Cata and MoP. Where did that leave them? 5 Million subscribers shorter. That's where they are. What does that imply? I interpret that as followed: New innovative content isn't doomed to be a success. Far from it, in fact.

The game continues to age, the leveling ceiling grows higher and higher, and Pandas were a fucking mistake. Let's call it what it is, and not your watered down misinterpretation of facts.

[Ordinator]

If it's not in the patch notes, or on BattleNet as an official statement, it doesn't mean shit. Twitter, Facebook, and all these other outlets are just mediums thru which they create hype, or chaos. Until it is an official statement, it is official nonsense.

Well, I guess it is time to start rattling chains and seeing if Blizz actually responds.

"NOTHINGS OFFICIAL TILL ITS ON BATTLE.NET!!"

"...better cry to blizzard on twitter though..."

[Callace]

The people that come to MMOC to post about how the game is made less casual don't represent any demographic. It's literally comparing scores of people to millions. Not being in favor of populism can be a good thing, but denying that it exists is powerfully lame.

[-Superman-]

You could still enjoy some aerial content in specially designed questing events. Maybe Timeless isle style puzzles, maybe Cata jousting style in the firelands mini-instanced zone. Random stuff like that to throw you enough of a bone to shut you up.

But you dont, however, need flying in the greater game overall to 'enjoy some aerial content'. You want it though, and there's a difference.

No, I need flying to:

Speed up my gathering of herbs and ore
Get from point A to B faster than 150% speed
Efficiently move from zone to zone for Archaeology digs
Efficiently move from zone to zone to collect Battle Pets
Enjoy my Iron Horde Sky Reaver while in the skies of Draenor on my Orc Warrior
Enjoy my Dread Raven while in the skies in the Spires of Arak near the Arakkoa
Enjoy the view of the zones from greater angles
Use my Storm Crow flight form to RP among the Arakkoa

and that list goes on. Just because you and the others sit in the city and wait for queues to pop for dungeons and raids does not mean the rest of us make that our mission.

[Callace]

No need to insult Blizzard's skill and creativity. As a gaming company, they are better than many other companies out there and have created some long lasting successful IPs.

No doubt, but that they haven't been up to their potential the past few years makes it all the more critical.

[-Superman-]

"NOTHINGS OFFICIAL TILL ITS ON BATTLE.NET!!"

"...better cry to blizzard on twitter though..."

304 pages of quotes and you only choose mine to respond to. I am really tired of being stalked by you. I've not commented to you, or about you, and even have to click View Post since you are on my ignore list. I will be contacting a mod about the constant harassment.

[Ordinator]

304 pages of quotes and you only choose mine to respond to. I am really tired of being stalked by you. I've not commented to you, or about you, and even have to click View Post since you are on my ignore list. I will be contacting a mod about the constant harassment.

I've replied to plenty of people in this entire topic. Still the fact is you make up the large majority of every single page. Then you get upset when somebody quotes you? Or calls you out on you contradicting yourself? Did you not just have a signature the other day quoting somebody named Barkloud for contradicting themselves? Should they contact a mod about you harassing them? As far as I'm concerned that's much different from simply quoting your mishap..

If you have me on ignore, then don't click to view my post.. that completely defeats the purpose. And i'm sure a mod will tell you the same thing. So go for it.

[Sjoa]

The game continues to age, the leveling ceiling grows higher and higher, and Pandas were a fucking mistake. Let's call it what it is, and not your watered down misinterpretation of facts.

Um, excuse me? These are cold blooded facts.

Fact #1: Blizzard was at a all time high during WotLK
Fact #2: Decline in subscribers started with Cataclysm aka start of an era with a billion shiny new effects, boss mechanics, specific spells, massive ground clutter because "shiny is cool"

Fuck me do i wish to just speed up time to 3 weeks into WoD, with people coming to the realisation of no flying actually happening. From Blizzards perspective, I don't think this is a big issue.

[CheeseSandwich]

Um, excuse me? These are cold blooded facts.

Fact #1: Blizzard was at a all time high during WotLK
Fact #2: Decline in subscribers started with Cataclysm aka start of an era with a billion shiny new effects, boss mechanics, specific spells, massive ground clutter because "shiny is cool"

Fuck me do i wish to just speed up time to 3 weeks into WoD, with people coming to the realisation of no flying actually happening. From Blizzards perspective, I don't think this is a big issue.

So, according to you, flying had nothing to do with the sub loss, it was the spell effects, ground clutter and boss mechanics.

WHERE DOES FLYING ENTER INTO THIS. Please, help me understand your argument.

[Sjoa]

No, I need flying to:

Speed up my gathering of herbs and ore
Get from point A to B faster than 150% speed
Efficiently move from zone to zone for Archaeology digs
Efficiently move from zone to zone to collect Battle Pets
Enjoy my Iron Horde Sky Reaver while in the skies of Draenor on my Orc Warrior
Enjoy my Dread Raven while in the skies in the Spires of Arak near the Arakkoa
Enjoy the view of the zones from greater angles
Use my Storm Crow flight form to RP among the Arakkoa

Technically, would your top #7 reasons as to why "everyone" will quit if no flying in Draenor becomes a thing be:
#1 Everyone needs flinyg to speed up gathering
#2 Everyone needs fling to get from A to B faster
#3 Everyone needs flying to speed up digging
#4 everyone needs flying to speed up pokémon collecting
#5 everyone needs flying to enjoy flying mounts in Draenor
#6 everyone needs flying to be able to see the world from a birds perspective(false, flight paths)
#7 everyone needs flying so i can fly with the Arakkoa
?

See how all your points doesn't really affect the game at all, thus it will not be a problem in Blizzars eye?

- - - Updated - - -

So, according to you, flying had nothing to do with the sub loss, it was the spell effects, ground clutter and boss mechanics.

WHERE DOES FLYING ENTER INTO THIS. Please, help me understand your argument.

Ideology. Philosophy. Shattering the world. These are some key parts that affected the subscriber counts massively. Negatively.
Their philosophy on how they wanted the game to be, obviously was a wrong one. Do they acknowledge this looking back? I don't know. All i know is, compared to MoP and Cataclysm; Warlords of Draenor has few/any of the key things they implemented in said expansions.

They are reducing pretty much everything. Why? I don't know. Maybe they have an idea of Great huuuuuuuuuuuuuge changes =/= positive reactions from community (read 7.5m subs now compared to 12.5m high)

This being said. I can't ignore the fact that not allowing flying in Draenor is a huge change. Well, technically, it isn't a change, as its not implemented to start with. It is simply a change in direction from Blizzards side.

It's a bold move, yes. In time I believe it will pay off. I think what you're imagining when you hear "No flying in Draenor" is how travelling in Outland would be today if you weren't allowed to fly. You (and I) have no idea what Draenor without flying will feel like. But imagining Outland with no flying is natural because our brains need pinpoints to get an idea of what it will be.

It is my belief that this natural way of thinking will result in negative thoughts on the matter of no flying. I don't think you take in consideration the compromises Blizzard will make for having no flying. (Speeding up flight paths, Having more choices to teleport from zone to zone, etc).

[Constraint]

No, I need flying to:

Speed up my gathering of herbs and ore

Everyone will be riding/gathering at the same speeds, and profession mat requirements will rather obviously be based around said speeds. Irrelevant.

Get from point A to B faster than 150% speed

Flightpaths. There are lots of them. Use them. How often do you need to rapidly travel back and forth along the same path away from flightpaths? Almost never.

Efficiently move from zone to zone for Archaeology digs

Ever considered that they might want to make Archaeology a little more interesting than just swooping down from above and clicking your little button? Kill some mobs if they're in the way. Fight your way for your rewards. Weird concept, huh?

Efficiently move from zone to zone to collect Battle Pets

Same as above. Instead of just swooping down from above with not a care in the world, you might have to actually think about it for once.

Enjoy my Iron Horde Sky Reaver while in the skies of Draenor on my Orc Warrior

You'll live.

Enjoy my Dread Raven while in the skies in the Spires of Arak near the Arakkoa

Again, you'll probably live.

Enjoy the view of the zones from greater angles

That's the first and only legitimate point you make. I agree that it can be a lovely experience to view from above at your leisure.

Use my Storm Crow flight form to RP among the Arakkoa

Shucks.. Now I see where you're coming from! I'll start up another petition to Blizzard to incorporate flying from the get-go at once.

and that list goes on. Just because you and the others sit in the city and wait for queues to pop for dungeons and raids does not mean the rest of us make that our mission.

What the actual fuck does flying have to do with sitting around in cities waiting for queues to pop..? Are you trying to be obtuse? It's not as if there'll be nothing else to do. If anything, they'll be MORE time consuming, as your "points" seem to suggest - why, therefore, would we be spending MORE time in cities and LESS time in the world doing useful things? Try to remember that convenience certainly isn't the only measure of success. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

[Sunseeker]

Ever considered that they might want to make Archaeology a little more interesting than just swooping down from above and clicking your little button? Kill some mobs if they're in the way. Fight your way for your rewards. Weird concept, huh?

Archeology has rewards? HA!

[Ordinator]

Archeology has rewards? HA!

Yes..?

10chars

[Callace]

Everyone will be riding/gathering at the same speeds, and profession mat requirements will rather obviously be based around said speeds. Irrelevant.

Flightpaths. There are lots of them. Use them. How often do you need to rapidly travel back and forth along the same path away from flightpaths? Almost never.



Ever considered that they might want to make Archaeology a little more interesting than just swooping down from above and clicking your little button? Kill some mobs if they're in the way. Fight your way for your rewards. Weird concept, huh?



Same as above. Instead of just swooping down from above with not a care in the world, you might have to actually think about it for once.



You'll live.



Again, you'll probably live.


That's the first and only legitimate point you make. I agree that it can be a lovely experience to view from above at your leisure.



Shucks.. Now I see where you're coming from! I'll start up another petition to Blizzard to incorporate flying from the get-go at once.



What the actual fuck does flying have to do with sitting around in cities waiting for queues to pop..? Are you trying to be obtuse? It's not as if there'll be nothing else to do. If anything, they'll be MORE time consuming, as your "points" seem to suggest - why, therefore, would we be spending MORE time in cities and LESS time in the world doing useful things? Try to remember that convenience certainly isn't the only measure of success. It's not a difficult concept to understand.

If people are forced to do a bunch of crap (read: bowling for mobs ad nauseum) on the way to goals, they will stop playing. If you think forcing people to play something they don't want to is a good idea, I can only imagine you are already guilty of doing just that.

[Destruktion]

Aren't people running for rewards everywhere? While agree that there is some level of railroading required to any linear-system, outside of raiding I don't see the need for the world to be so linear.

Giving players the ability to drop down on objectives from above is not compelling gameplay, so it needs to be SOMEWHAT linear. Otherwise, there needs to be more checks against flying mounts in open world content. REAL checks, not monstrous kaliri and flak cannons and other things that do a half-assed job.

Other people talking about providing level 100 content in non-level 100 zones.

Again, since harder areas have historically been isolated from the rest of the zone I don't see this being a problem.

[CheeseSandwich]

Technically, would your top #7 reasons as to why "everyone" will quit if no flying in Draenor becomes a thing be:
#1 Everyone needs flinyg to speed up gathering
#2 Everyone needs fling to get from A to B faster
#3 Everyone needs flying to speed up digging
#4 everyone needs flying to speed up pokémon collecting
#5 everyone needs flying to enjoy flying mounts in Draenor
#6 everyone needs flying to be able to see the world from a birds perspective(false, flight paths)
#7 everyone needs flying so i can fly with the Arakkoa
?

See how all your points doesn't really affect the game at all, thus it will not be a problem in Blizzars eye?

- - - Updated - - -




Ideology. Philosophy. Shattering the world. These are some key parts that affected the subscriber counts massively. Negatively.
Their philosophy on how they wanted the game to be, obviously was a wrong one. Do they acknowledge this looking back? I don't know. All i know is, compared to MoP and Cataclysm; Warlords of Draenor has few/any of the key things they implemented in said expansions.

They are reducing pretty much everything. Why? I don't know. Maybe they have an idea of Great huuuuuuuuuuuuuge changes =/= positive reactions from community (read 7.5m subs now compared to 12.5m high)

This being said. I can't ignore the fact that not allowing flying in Draenor is a huge change. Well, technically, it isn't a change, as its not implemented to start with. It is simply a change in direction from Blizzards side.

It's a bold move, yes. In time I believe it will pay off. I think what you're imagining when you hear "No flying in Draenor" is how travelling in Outland would be today if you weren't allowed to fly. You (and I) have no idea what Draenor without flying will feel like. But imagining Outland with no flying is natural because our brains need pinpoints to get an idea of what it will be.

It is my belief that this natural way of thinking will result in negative thoughts on the matter of no flying. I don't think you take in consideration the compromises Blizzard will make for having no flying. (Speeding up flight paths, Having more choices to teleport from zone to zone, etc).

Honestly, what I imagine from a game is taking elements of the existing and accepted structure and expanding on them to create a more dynamic, fun and involved game. I don;t imagine them removing things that have been in place for an extended period of time to achieve the same goals. To me, it just reeks of a lack of creativity, and a lack of desire to strive to provide something new and original within the structures they have built.
It's true I have no idea what no flying in WoD will be like, but imo them cutting it out (potentially) restricts them adding anything new or substantial to what they have had going for several years now. Why not embrace this thing that's been in your game for years, consolidate all the ideas and gameplay mechanics they have used through out the years and deliver a kick ass ground/leveling experience, as well as an amazing and fantastic max level/flying content?
Why are they throwing out the baby to save the bath water (an old analogy I know).
Also, I agree that WoD has few of the things implemented in Cata/MoP, and that reverting some of those changes is wise. But HOW does flying fit into this catagory? Why not shared raid lock outs? Why not daily and weekly dungeon and raid quests? Why not go back to tons of dungeons and puggable raids? Why is the only thing getting singled out, flying (which was in the game years before the sub losses started) being cut?

[Ordinator]

If people are forced to do a bunch of crap (read: bowling for mobs ad nauseum) on the way to goals, they will stop playing. If you think forcing people to play something they don't want to is a good idea, I can only imagine you are already guilty of doing just that.

If that were true the game wouldn't have made it out of Vanilla. A game that doesn't put obstacles or challenges in your way isn't really a game at all.

[Sjoa]

If people are forced to do a bunch of crap (read: bowling for mobs ad nauseum) on the way to goals, they will stop playing. If you think forcing people to play something they don't want to is a good idea, I can only imagine you are already guilty of doing just that.

Your followers will be doing the dirty work pal, kick back, relax. drink a beer on your bear and watch those labour class followers dig the dirt for you.