Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Deleted]

Would you like to know why I love flying? It is a convenience. A QoL change we all LOVE by the time we hit level cap. Flying allows me to lift off the ground and go a hundred different places and do a million different things. At 492% flight speed I get from the Shrine to HalfHill for my daily farming in 90 seconds. On a ground mount, I would need to go North into KunLai, East to the river, South through the river of mobs, down the path past the BMAH and tavern in the mists, to the bottom of the hill, head south west, and arrive 19 minutes after departing from the shrine.

I can't even reach most dailies in MoP without Flight. Could not even talk to Chromie to get to your precious timeless isle without... flight. To get back to the isle, you either need to set your hearthstone there, or you need... flight. They put Flight paths in for convenience. They added flight to the world for convenience. A convenience they now want to now REMOVE as a test. I may not know a thing about game design, but I know about convenience and the removal of it. When conveniences start to disappear, regardless of the reason, people will simply go to a new place for convenience, or for a brand new experience simply because they hated the experience they had with the new situation.

As for how I spend my time in this game, it is my concern... not yours. If a key feature I happen to treasure is being potentially removed, I will sit here as long as I please and express my opinion. You want to stop that? Apply for a position as a Mod and ban me with your new found power.

Let me counter all of your arguments.

1) I have said it is a convenience, that essentially degrades the game experience. Go read my other posts and try counter those firsts.

2) That is because the game is designed to accommodate for flight now. They need to make higher level areas inaccesible to lower level players, and one of those techniques employed is putting the higher level mobs onto a higher plateau, making them inaccessible to players without flight (namely, lower level players).
This retarded argument only holds any water if they don't accommodate for the lack of flight in WoD zones.
Flight paths are there as a means of fast travel and they were largely rendered pointless due the addition of personal flying mounts. When newer features in your game start rendering other parts of it pointless, then you, from a game design standpoint, are wasting resources and you fucked up.

And here is the stinker again in your argument. You say you know nothing about game design (as if it wasn't abundantly clear in your posts) Therefor you should refrain from speaking your mind on the subject because 9 times out of 10, you'll blurt out retarded statements like this.

If this is your reason as to why flying mounts are a KEY component in your style of play, I'd suggest looking up the definition of the word "key" in this context.

[Raiju]

Another solution would be to add combat to flying in the zones and design the zones so that they are bigger and more interactive no matter if you're on the ground or in the sky. Blizzard chose to give us flying mounts. They just have to use their creativity a bit more and put some hard work into a new design choice.

They could also let you fly from the beginning but add so many hazards that you have to think about when you'll try and do it. Make the world feel dangerous.

They tried to add aerial combat back in wotlk but couldn't manage it, so it was scrapped. This is their next solution - since they've made it clear flying has been considered a problem since back then through various blues.

[urasim]

-snip-

You need to reword your posts if you don't want then misinterpreted. WPvP is dead! There is zero point in doing it when you get little to no rewards. Not having flight will not bring back WPvP. I can AFK for hours on timeless isle and not be touched on a PvP server. So, I am curious, why do think that there will be magically be more WPvP come expansion when there is none now?

[Raiju]

You need to reword your posts if you don't want then misinterpreted. WPvP is dead! There is zero point in doing it when you get little to no rewards. Not having flight will not bring back WPvP. I can AFK for hours on timeless isle and not be touched on a PvP server. So, I am curious, why do think that there will be magically be more WPvP come expansion when there is none now?

Must be a dead server. I'm not even on a full pop and I can't afk 5 minutes on TI (outside guarded areas) without someone trying to get a kill.

[Mjau]

For me perosnally the no flying thing is something that makes it very tempting for me to come back to WoW. I realize there are two sides of this thing and I think blizzard have to make a decision if they want to make a game more "old school" and attract players that have quit over the years or if they wanna keep the "newer" playerbase. However I think they have to change more than just the flying to really see a big impact either way. Threatening to leave or promise come back doesn't really do much I think. Blizzard has a goal besides making money, they also want to make a game to their standards and it's up to them to find the balance and what they can sacrifice and what they can keep and I think they know what they are doing most of the time.

[Sunseeker]

It eliminates any sense of danger

There was a sense of danger? When? Vanilla?

It removes any sense of accomplishment that comes with exploration in traditional travelling inside games.

In your opinion. I feel just as accomplished exploring the world via air as I do any other way.

Rather than figuring out a contrived path to the top of a mountain and building and feeling a sense of accomplishment when you get there, you simply jump on your trusty dragon and fly to the top and go like "eh, this is neat".

Again, that's entirely your opinion on it and not by any means universal. I like the idea that sometimes there aren't paths to walk up tall things.

It also kills player interaction as zones seem more empty. Rather than have all players interact and see eachother on the same plane (namely the ground), they now are spread across different heights in the sky, often not noticing eachother's presence.

So?

While forcing everyone to be on the ground doesn't automatically result in players being more social towards eachother, it will make the game feel alive, rather than a barren wasteland, which is a huge part of the overall player experience. Why would you play an MMO when the entire game is essentially no different from a singleplayer game, seeing no other players outside of queueing up for a dungeon or BG?

Yeah I probably would.

Basically it boils down to this: due to flying mounts, the game experience is degraded, and Blizzard is fully aware of that. Go figure why they wish to extend the the no fly time for everyone, rather than giving you the ability back once you reach max level.

For you. Clearly this isn't what happened for everyone since a lot of people love flying.

[kamuimac]

It eliminates any sense of danger,

because timless isle is sooooooo dangerous when i run around it with my +/- 570 alts -_-

[urasim]

Let me counter all of your arguments.

1) I have said it is a convenience, that essentially degrades the game experience. Go read my other posts and try counter those firsts.

2) That is because the game is designed to accommodate for flight now. They need to make higher level areas inaccesible to lower level players, and one of those techniques employed is putting the higher level mobs onto a higher plateau, making them inaccessible to players without flight (namely, lower level players).
This retarded argument only holds any water if they don't accommodate for the lack of flight in WoD zones.
Flight paths are there as a means of fast travel and they were largely rendered pointless due the addition of personal flying mounts. When newer features in your game start rendering other parts of it pointless, then you, from a game design standpoint, are wasting resources and you fucked up.

And here is the stinker again in your argument. You say you know nothing about game design (as if it wasn't abundantly clear in your posts) Therefor you should refrain from speaking your mind on the subject because 9 times out of 10, you'll blurt out retarded statements like this.

If this is your reason as to why flying mounts are a KEY component in your style of play, I'd suggest looking up the definition of the word "key" in this context.

You say you "counter" points, but in reality you just make a fool of yourself.

Flight paths are there for many reasons that you seem to conveniently ignore. 1) they're there for low level players leveling through zones to travel to their destination faster and safer than riding ground mount. 2) Flight paths are used by everyone that don't want to sit at their computer baby sitting their character.

Flying mounts don't eliminate the need for flight paths any more than level 90 boosts eliminate the need for leveling content. Everything has its' place in this game, and flight paths fight a role. Whether you utilize them or not is not something in discussion here as they are used by many, and they're not obsolete because of flying mounts.

I highly doubt you have any idea the process involved with creating games, so telling someone they shouldn't say anything because they don't is a bit hypocritical.

- - - Updated - - -

Must be a dead server. I'm not even on a full pop and I can't afk 5 minutes on TI (outside guarded areas) without someone trying to get a kill.

I play on one of the busiest servers(constant queue times)... Timeless isle is dead. Much like WoD open world will be.

[Raiju]

I play on one of the busiest servers(constant queue times)... Timeless isle is dead. Much like WoD open world will be.

How about telling us what server that is. I've never seen a pvp server where timeless isle isn't a hive of activity yet, even fairly quiet ones.

[-Superman-]

Basically it boils down to this: due to flying mounts, the game experience is degraded, and Blizzard is fully aware of that. Go figure why they wish to extend the the no fly time for everyone, rather than giving you the ability back once you reach max level.

You really don't know anything about this do you? So let me break this down for everyone.

- Back in the day, you had to go to the entrance of the Dungeon or the BG you were joining
- Back in the day, you had to go to the entrance of the Raid you were doing
- Back in the day, before you could spam dungeons, you had to be out in the world questing
- Back in the day, you were reliant on your own realm for raids, dungeons, arenas, etc
- Back in the day, people were held accountable for their actions and not act like tools during runs, or they were black listed
- Back in the day, people would group together for quests involving elites in zones like Duskwood (Mort Ladim) or STV (King Bangalash)

Then, the era of conveniences was born.

- Why run to the dungeon? We'll give you a dungeon finder. Now you can sit in town all day, troll trade chat, and wait for your queue to pop
- Why run to the BG? Now you can make food and flasks while you sit in town all day and just wait for your queue to pop
- Why look for more raiders? We'll find them for you and teleport you there! LFR was born.
- Tired of questing and seeing all the content in the world? No worries, just spam dungeons for the XP. Once you hit lvl 15, you won't need to level outside of dungeons again.
- Tired of looking for people in the city to group with? No worries, here are tons of other realms ready to join you. Now you can draw some battle lines and blame people from other realms.
- Troll in the group? No prob. Just blacklist him. Hang on. Cross Realm, no real way to blacklist. Guess we will just have to tolerate it.
- Too quiet in town? population decrease from an aging game? No worries, we will connect realms, but leave the realm monikers so people can insult each other base on their realm name. Allow the "spirit of competition".
- Too tough to find a group for elite quests since no one is out questing? No prob. We're turning all elites into regs or just making them look tough, but are very easy to solo.

So, when it comes down to brass tax, methods to avoid content, and zones, is what crippled the community. Segregation and re-population with other realms helped fuel the fires. There is no more accountability in LFD, LFR, or anything related to CRZ... even Flex. People loved the convenience so much, OQueue was born. Now, you can find people to raid with, WITHOUT the random help from Blizz just tossing anyone into the mix. Thanks to poorly laid out quest lines and zones, and bad travel options, items were put in place to eventually keep people away from content for good. In fact, if the content was SO COMPELLING, they never would have sold lvl 90 boosts. Now, in order to speed past content, they offer elixirs, BoAs, guild perks, and other ingame items which make blazing through the content FASTER even BEFORE you are allowed to fly.

If they want people to slow down and see the content, they don't need to remove the flying at level cap. They need to remove:

- Heirlooms and BoA gear
- daily xp buffs
- guild xp buffs
- rested xp buffs
- and the ability to do more than ONE dungeon per hour below level cap. Lock the dungeon til the zone quests are complete, and unlock it with the final quest
- rep tabards for dungeon gain, take tabards back to TBC and make them wearable at exalted, not just to grind to exalted

Things they should add/increase:

- XP while grouped
- more xp when grouped with guildmates
- automatic rep gain increases for alts (mop tokens that double xp for alts), but for all races (encourage grinding old content for rep)
- special BiS gear that can be obtained through rep (Honored, not exalted) to encourage questing in zones
- Damage buff that gives 25% attack power when entering combat from a ground mount
- Dishonorable kills. It would discourage gankers and force "PvPers" to engage in combat, with the Caveat that AoE does not trigger them, but single targeting. This way, lowbies cannot grief gankers, just as gankers could not grief lowbies.
*** I am on an RP realm, I do not take part in PvP. INB4 some asshat says "Then don't roll on a PvP realm". This is merely a line item in a suggestion ***


So, before people go using FLIGHT as a scape goat for the state of the game, maybe they need to step back and take an HONEST look at what took people out of the world and pins them in the cities. Those of us who are out in the world, should be allowed to travel as we see fit.

TL;DR - IDGAF, go read it.

- - - Updated - - -

I have said it is a convenience, that essentially degrades the game experience. Go read my other posts and try counter those firsts.

I have no intention of countering your posts as they are your OPINION, and not fact. Just as my posts are MY opinion, and not fact. I do not have to defend my choice of playstyle to ANYONE except the company trying to fuck with it. So if you are just looking for a fight, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[mvaliz]

People will just go back to AFKing on taxi rides like they did in Vanilla.

Im all for removng flight until level cap, but a whole expansion time? That seems unneccesaily excessive...

[Callace]

Imagine all of the high altitude regions you won't be able to explore. Blizzard is removing flight so that they don't have to develop that. You'll point up at something from below and say, "I wonder what's up there" and never be able to reach it, because they'll make the terrain too steep. Just like in the good ole' days.

[Callace]

The devs gave it their all in Mists, they used every last play in the book. But subs still declined. After that fiasco, they very likely had their development costs tied to sub counts, and now that they've been cut back, they have to scramble to think of a way to finish the expansion before December. Removing every point of interest about 100 feet altitude is the only chance they have at doing this. There will be no mountainous caverns, no sky-high bridges with towering plateaus that actually contain explorable points. All of that will be gone, because the people that are naive enough to pay $15 a month for a ten year old videogame, are also naive enough to believe whatever Blizzard tells them, and will keep subbing no matter what.

[urasim]

When has blizz said that is the reason they want to remove flying?

Saying we're cheap and lazy is far worse than lame excuses of "immersion".

[Callace]

When has blizz said that is the reason they want to remove flying?

They're not a kickstarter, not a non-profit organization, they're not your buddy. Their goal is profits. Do you really expect them to be honest with you all the time? Why would they admit to that?

[mvaliz]

Saying we're cheap and lazy is far worse than lame excuses of "immersion".

I don't see how developing for "flying" content is any harder than developing for non-flying.

And those of you who say they should just make more elevated platforms for us to land on during the leveling experience - first off, that's just the stupidest looking landscape ever. Secondly, you're going to end up with zones like Vash'ir - the problem wasn't just in 3D fighting... the problem also lies in that the zone's design was massive 3D where you were constantly flying (swimming) up and down to multiple different elevations.

We don't want a repeat of Vash'ir again. The way to do that is to make it remain a relatively level landscape.

[Callace]

I don't see how developing for "flying" content is any harder than developing for non-flying.

No-upper bound locations, just inaccessible empty terrain. No Upper Spires of Arrak content until 6.1, etc. etc. I.e. They're going to give us less overall locations, and more empty terrain filled with Timeless Isle mobs.

[Destruktion]

They're not a kickstarter, not a non-profit organization, they're not your buddy. Their goal is profits. Do you really expect them to be honest with you all the time? Why would they admit to that?

Can't you construct your opinions on some rational basis instead of on an emotional impulse?

[-Superman-]

I don't see how developing for "flying" content is any harder than developing for non-flying.

And those of you who say they should just make more elevated platforms for us to land on during the leveling experience - first off, that's just the stupidest looking landscape ever. Secondly, you're going to end up with zones like Vash'ir - the problem wasn't just lying in 3D fighting... the problem also lies in that the zone's design was massive 3D where you were constantly flying (swimming) up and down to multiple different elevations.

We don't want a repeat of Vash'ir again. The way to do that is to make it remain a relatively level landscape.

If we had aerial combat, I might agree. But if this were the case, we would not have places like Storm Peaks, Deepholm, Kun Lai summit, or Spires of Arak. Looking at the landscaping of the barrens or Silithus all day long without some exploration of the dimensions would grow boring very quickly, and once again we would ride past people trying to climb the mountains by jumping in corners. I.E. - The Ironforge airstrip.

[Callace]

Can't you construct your opinions on some rational basis instead of on an emotional impulse?

Your emotional impulse is your gullibility. Don't take my word for it, check out all of the alpha shots that have mountains without explorable locations. It's less content than Mists.