Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Perkunas]

It is a better game IMO. If you look at my list Wildstar already has most of the thing I would require from WoW to even try their ground game.

I had not heard about flight being vetoed in Wildstar I just know that it isn't available yet.

Flight was part of the original plan for the game. The community caused such an uproar about how it's harmful to the game as a whole and the dev team agreed with them. They killed the flight idea before it ever made it into the game.

[Perkunas]

Was part of the no-fly for Wildstar, purchased the game and ended up throwing it to corner to collect dust afterwards.

I've only quit because it's so damn buggy. Everything else is fantastic, but the bugs have made me so angry that I just couldn't pay beyond the first month.

[Maneo]

I've only quit because it's so damn buggy. Everything else is fantastic, but the bugs have made me so angry that I just couldn't pay beyond the first month.

I am all the way to 50 and really haven't ran into to many bugs..

Sorry back on topic.

I really hope this no flight bites Blizz in the ass big time and flight is restored prior to 6.1 .. then I might return... doubtful but maybe.

[bryroo]

It is a better game IMO. If you look at my list Wildstar already has most of the thing I would require from WoW to even try their ground game.

I had not heard about flight being vetoed in Wildstar I just know that it isn't available yet.

It's still an unfair comparison. While Wildstar hasn't had flying at all WoW has had flying in it's current over world content for the majority of the game's life span. Comparing it to another game would mean removing a form of travel that the players are already familiar with and accustomed to.

It would be like taking fast travel out of Guild Wars 2 or removing the ground mounts from SWTOR.

[Grimskull22]

Wildstar also has double jumps and the low-gravity areas.

In all honesty, I'd be happy to take that in exchange for flight.

It's something instead of jack shit.

[Maneo]

It's still an unfair comparison. While Wildstar hasn't had flying at all WoW has had flying in it's current over world content for the majority of the game's life span. Comparing it to another game would mean removing a form of travel that the players are already familiar with and accustomed to.

It would be like taking fast travel out of Guild Wars 2 or removing the ground mounts from SWTOR.

This is also true. It amazes me how these very well paid devs can't figure out how to deal with a feature that has been in the game for seven years.... Maybe it is time for fresh blood in the Blizz offices and for others to get the pink slip.

- - - Updated - - -

Wildstar also has double jumps and the low-gravity areas.

In all honesty, I'd be happy to take that in exchange for flight.

It's something instead of jack shit.

That would require Blizz to be innovative and original. That is something they have never been good at with WoW everything they have done (except adding flight) was done by another MMO first.

They are taking the one inovative thing they have done and are removing it from all future content.. LOL

[Perkunas]

I am all the way to 50 and really haven't ran into to many bugs..

Sorry back on topic.

I really hope this no flight bites Blizz in the ass big time and flight is restored prior to 6.1 .. then I might return... doubtful but maybe.

You're a lucky bastard. The vet adventures were all but unplayable for me and most of my guild for the first couple weeks. Half of Grimvault was underwater for me in a fatigue zone. Still, the point remains that the dev team there said the same thing about flight that the devs here have. It shrinks the world and allows players to bypass content. It took the community screaming about it to get them to examine it, but they've come to the same conclusion that we see here.

What will likely happen with WoW's subs is that the numbers will decrease more because of the lack of content for over a year instead of there being no flying until 6.1 and Activision will blame flying instead of the lack of content and then force Blizzard to patch it back in. Subs will continue to drop until we stabilize around 2 million or so and then that's when the dreaded F2P will hit. This likely wont happen for another 4 years or so, but mark my words Warcraft numbers are going to dip regardless of what they do. Flying has little to do with the game's success.

[Maneo]

You're a lucky bastard. The vet adventures were all but unplayable for me and most of my guild for the first couple weeks. Half of Grimvault was underwater for me in a fatigue zone. Still, the point remains that the dev team there said the same thing about flight that the devs here have. It shrinks the world and allows players to bypass content. It took the community screaming about it to get them to examine it, but they've come to the same conclusion that we see here.

What will likely happen with WoW's subs is that the numbers will decrease more because of the lack of content for over a year instead of there being no flying until 6.1 and Activision will blame flying instead of the lack of content and then force Blizzard to patch it back in. Subs will continue to drop until we stabilize around 2 million or so and then that's when the dreaded F2P will hit. This likely wont happen for another 4 years or so, but mark my words Warcraft numbers are going to dip regardless of what they do. Flying has little to do with the game's success.

That may be but personally I quit WoW after enjoying it and playing it since Vanilla because of this limiting flight, and I know 10 other people personally who left for the same reason.. Once this goes live and the majority become aware of it I am sure many others will follow.

[bryroo]

This is also true. It amazes me how these very well paid devs can't figure out how to deal with a feature that has been in the game for seven years.... Maybe it is time for fresh blood in the Blizz offices and for others to get the pink slip.

Meh. I'm getting the impression that the ones making the major decisions right now are the ones that ran Titan into the ground. I know Alex Afri, the voice piece of this whole fiasco, was kicked off Titan after they had to rethink the whole project. It stands to reason that he wants to retrograde WoW back to it's "glory days" when he was on the team.

I agree that a good designer finds way to make features work instead of just removing them because they're too hard.

[Perkunas]

That may be but personally I quit WoW after enjoying it and playing it since Vanilla because of this limiting flight, and I know 10 other people personally who left for the same reason.. Once this goes live and the majority become aware of it I am sure many others will follow.

You quit this game because you can't fly for 5 months 6 months from now... Let's examine that statement. In 6 months you wont be able to fly for 5 months and so you unsubbed now. Not because you're bored, not because there's nothing to do, not because Blizzard did this to us 3 times in a row now. You quit because you can't fly for 5 months 6 months from now.

[markos82]

If you were present during Cataclysm you were probably aware that Path of the Titans and Abyssal Maw dungeon were both announced at Blizzcon and then later cut?
Plans don't change along the lines of an entire expansion, it's smaller pieces that are subject to change. This is no different.

You can't compare those two since that doesnt effect game play. Having two additional dungeons when you had 9 ( counting redesigned ones also ) so 2 additional wouldn't change much. We are here talking about having/not having feature that you had for lets say 8 years and that is insanely long period in lifetime of a MMO game considering how many MMOs have seen the light of day and faded out.

So they should at least have decency to tell their customer what plans do they have and the reason why they are not doing this is because having/not having flying for some ( or many ) could be a deal breaker ( myself included ) and NO COMPANY WANTS TO LOSE MONEY...

[markos82]

Looking at Path of the Titans, it would have had quite an impact to game play actually.

Yes but you can't take that into consideration since it never was implemented. You could use it in this case if you had it and then they removed it and all the ahrd effort you put into that was gone. Keep in mind that some players invested lots of time into obtaining flying mounts, paying for flying skills, don't forget how expensive was spic flying skill back at start, lets just say that if you use the inflation formula now many players wouldnt be able to pay for it...

[Saxtorph]

It will only take one, I repeat ONE, person who feels they got hit with a "bait and switch" tactic (offer the mount, take your money and THEN tell you can can't use it to fly in the content it was supposedly designed for).... and Blizz could be in a world of hurt. "Constructive Fraud" does not require proof of intent. No matter how well they practice CYA, they risk a big, big suit and could stand to lose some serious coin.

Unless there some verbiage that says the mount was designed specifically for use in/with the WoD expansion this will never be a case. There won't be, but you feel free to keep spouting hyperbole.

[Perkunas]

Yes but you can't take that into consideration since it never was implemented. You could use it in this case if you had it and then they removed it and all the ahrd effort you put into that was gone. Keep in mind that some players invested lots of time into obtaining flying mounts, paying for flying skills, don't forget how expensive was spic flying skill back at start, lets just say that if you use the inflation formula now many players wouldnt be able to pay for it...

It's too hard to balance the cost of flight perfectly for each expansion though. What is 5k gold from BC worth in today's gold? 5k was like 80% of my gold in BC when I purchased epic flight.

[bryroo]

Looking at Path of the Titans, it would have had quite an impact to game play actually.

I was so psyched for that. I believe it was intended to be an alternate progression path but I had day dreams of it letting you turn your spec into whatever role you wanted to perform. I had visions of Ret-Tanks, Shadow Healers, and DPS Protection Warriors. Probably not the intent but I still remember being equally excited by and disappointed by it's fleeting existence.

[Perkunas]

I was so psyched for that. I believe it was intended to be an alternate progression path but I had day dreams of it letting you turn your spec into whatever role you wanted to perform. I had visions of Ret-Tanks, Shadow Healers, and DPS Protection Warriors. Probably not the intent but I still remember being equally excited by and disappointed by it's fleeting existence.

I had always thought it was just going to be the progression path for non-raiders. I wish it would have been that way instead of creating 359 different raid formats.

[bryroo]

Unless there some verbiage that says the mount was designed specifically for use in/with the WoD expansion this will never be a case. There won't be, but you feel free to keep spouting hyperbole.

Yep. Back to semantics.

Humanity doesn't work according to technicalities and using a lawyer mentality on every transaction will keep you from getting sued but it doesn't make for satisfied customers.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Yep. Back to semantics.

Humanity doesn't work according to technicalities and using a lawyer mentality on every transaction will keep you from getting sued but it doesn't make for satisfied customers.

If I had to give an example of how entitled people would explain away other peoples opinions that differ from their own this is what I use.

You have your opinion. I have my opinion. They have theirs. All are equal in value. Just about nothin.

[Real World]

And this is where I can assure you that the gamplay you are seeing now isn't going to be much different than to what you will play in alpha. Minus some tweaks in times/bug fixing, perhaps some dialogue changes...small things that are fixable without much of a headache or redo. How the quests play out, as to how they are presented will not change at this point. My guess is right now, they are probably focused on raid content atm as far as actually laying out how it plays out.

When a company opens up Alpha for testing, most of the major decisions have been made. And it would be very costly indeed for Blizzard to pull a redo, even with how quests work for that would pull designers off of what they are currently working on.

So please, take this as truth. How you see the quests and gameplay in general playing out in alpha, is how it will be on release. Minus a few small tweaks and changes to things that do not drastically alter gameplay.

And that may be. But, if it is ok with the rest of the world, I'd still like to experience it for myself rather than follow the mob... in either direction.

[Barkloud]

And people got over it.

The reality of it is most people won't be bothered enough by it to quit. They may not like it, but they won't quit because of it.

Think about what you are saying. Blizzard is making a change to their game that most people will be upset about. But it is okay because they will not be upset enough to quit.

By the time i found out there was no more new dungeons in MOP, it was too late for me. My guild, some of who I have played with since Ultima Online was brand new, was already progressing together.

With WoD I am forewarned. I am currently lobbying my guild to all join Wildstar and abandon wow. That would be 300 people at least. If I can get 50 I will get the rest. My whole guild is already plenty upset at having to move servers due to the server we played on for 8 years becoming completely lopsided in the course of a few months. Everyone is still pissed about that one.

Most of the old timers play because they know what to expect in WOW. They cannot expect that any longer.

MOP saw the removal of Dungeons for the most part.

Now WoD is seeing the removal of flight, severely crippling peoples actual playtime due to their increased travel times.

WOW is becoming less and less familiar to its core market. I say let the new folks have it if they want it.

I just want to play with my friends. The game is secondary. WOW is not doing themselves any favors with these knee jerk reactions.

Die hards like you and I, we read forums, fight over stupid stuff, we go on and on for hours over dumb opinions we never change our stance on.

Casual players, they just go away. When that happens they are not coming back.