Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[CheeseSandwich]

This statement would be true if I was able to use my abilities on a flying mount. Alas, I can't.

My huge experience doing wpvp on wotlk server disagrees with you. Let's just leave it at that.



I play 3.3.5 server once in a while cause arenas and BGs there are not as retarded as they are right now (and pvp metagame too).

And no, I don't think world magically will become populated again once flying is removed - I am just glad that my targets will have less options of escaping me.

At that point in the game's life, there was flight at max level (technically before max level) and yet WPvP is, by your account, flourishing. Suggests to me that flying isn't the problem, game design is.

[pankind]

Ashran is the WPvP of the next expac. Where else will this max level WPvP happen? At world bosses, where people congregate now anyway, with flying? At max level content areas, where people will be on the ground doing it anyway? Or while you are randomly riding around on your ground mount through 90-99 level questing areas?

Flying helps you get to the first 2, where the WPvP happens, and cuts down time finding targets for WPvP in the 3rd.

Without having played the beta you can expect PVP at the Ring of Honor if your realm is reasonably faction balanced, otherwise everyone at level 100 will be going back to Gadgetzan, Hyjal, Deepholm, Uldum, etc.

Ashran won't really be world PVP, it's a glorified battleground like Tol Barad.

[Ninepenny]

At that point in the game's life, there was flight at max level (technically before max level) and yet WPvP is, by your account, flourishing. Suggests to me that flying isn't the problem, game design is.

I mentioned my experience in the Old World, not in Northrend or Outland.

[gamingmuscle]

This statement would be true if I was able to use my abilities on a flying mount. Alas, I can't.

Ahh the I'm next to them but not on the ground problem...shame blizzard took away the ability to dismount people on flying mounts. But guess you should have rolled a druid so you can troll people from the air then =P

My huge experience doing wpvp on wotlk server disagrees with you. Let's just leave it at that.

And my huge experience on production servers prior to flight disagrees with you =P The only time I even bothered with pvp was vanilla, wpvp was dead then. Gankers like you do continue to exist, but you are the the surviving 1%, while the other 99% moved to BGs.

And no, I don't think world magically will become populated again once flying is removed - I am just glad that my targets will have less options of escaping me.

And you have less ability to engage them =P

[Fiannor]

The fact remains that not permitting flying in the new expansion means no one can fly, thus making the game more tedious for those who favor flying. On the other hand, permitting flying would please both groups by allowing those who do not like it to continue to travel by ground everywhere and preserve the sense of "immersion" they favor. It seems odd to me that Blizz might be considering that pissing off a large portion of the player base is preferable to allowing choice for all.

[CheeseSandwich]

Without having played the beta you can expect PVP at the Ring of Honor if your realm is reasonably faction balanced, otherwise everyone at level 100 will be going back to Gadgetzan, Hyjal, Deepholm, Uldum, etc.

Ashran won't really be world PVP, it's a glorified battleground like Tol Barad.

I'm not sure you have the right expansion in mind? People will be going back to Cata? I'm not sure I follow you, please help me out. Colour me confused.

Tol Barad, Like Wintergrasp was, and Ashran will be, is a World PvP zone, being a place that exists in the world, right outside our home base, that promotes PvP.

If I was of a PvP mind, and keen to see honorable Alliance blood on my sword which makes more sense?

Option (a) : Riding up the road from my capital into the teeth of battle that gives incentives and rewards for participation, conveniently right there on my doorstep...

Or

Option (b) : Portal to my garrison, and ride out on water walker in the hope that eventually I might stumble upon someone that might not even want to play the same pvp game as me, so I can kill them for no reward....

Around 60% of the player base don't give a rat's ass for WPvP, so there is that too.

[Barkloud]

Almost 800 pages of posts on this thread alone and still no official comment from Blizzard. Sure we have gotten random comments on threads but no official posting or dev speak on transportation

This is more than just flying/flying. It is about in game transportation. Simply shutting off flying would increase 10 minutes of travel time to 30 minutes of travel time.

No comments from blizzard on what their idea was, how the game was designed differently, how nodes were gping to be handled, no info on how they were going to speed up travel to make up for cutting our speed by 210%. Simply making more direct flight paths will not cut it.

Blizzards silence on this still highly controversial issue continues to amaze me

[pankind]

The fact remains that not permitting flying in the new expansion means no one can fly, thus making the game more tedious for those who favor flying. On the other hand, permitting flying would please both groups by allowing those who do not like it to continue to travel by ground everywhere and preserve the sense of "immersion" they favor. It seems odd to me that Blizz might be considering that pissing off a large portion of the player base is preferable to allowing choice for all.

Even people who might appreciate the immersion theory are still playing an MMO and will most often choose the quickest available route to their goal.

[shammypie]

Without having played the beta you can expect PVP at the Ring of Honor if your realm is reasonably faction balanced, otherwise everyone at level 100 will be going back to Gadgetzan, Hyjal, Deepholm, Uldum, etc.

Ashran won't really be world PVP, it's a glorified battleground like Tol Barad.

there was a decent amount of wpvp in TB even outside the matches. Although it was also one of the only places for some herbs and had good elementium pockets. That being said it was also difficult to farm there and the only enjoyment was the pvp. I currently hate wow pvp and live on a completely 1 sided server. Therefore i won't be able to find wpvp if i wanted to no matter what blizzard tries to do. Which means the lack of flight is simply a lack of resouce which in turn aggrivates me.

[Ninepenny]

Ahh the I'm next to them but not on the ground problem...shame blizzard took away the ability to dismount people on flying mounts. But guess you should have rolled a druid so you can troll people from the air then =P

The thing is that both of us on ground mounts != both of us on flying mounts. I can still catch up with you and make a hit when you're on a ground mount - with a flying one you become untouchable ( and able to chose to remain so indefinitely).

The fact remains that not permitting flying in the new expansion means no one can fly, thus making the game more tedious for those who favor flying. On the other hand, permitting flying would please both groups by allowing those who do not like it to continue to travel by ground everywhere and preserve the sense of "immersion" they favor. It seems odd to me that Blizz might be considering that pissing off a large portion of the player base is preferable to allowing choice for all.

This has been discussed ad nauseum before - there is no choice involved here when the other option is stupidly better.

[CheeseSandwich]

I mentioned my experience in the Old World, not in Northrend or Outland.

In the version of the game you are playing, flying is available at max level, and yet parts of the game have the design to facilitate and encourage WPvP.

How is it that is not possible now?

[Osmeric]

In the version of the game you are playing, flying is available at max level, and yet parts of the game have the design to facilitate and encourage WPvP.

How is it that is not possible now?

Of course it's "possible". Many game designs are "possible". Blizzard just has chosen not to pursue them.

[pankind]

Almost 800 pages of posts on this thread alone and still no official comment from Blizzard. Sure we have gotten radon comments on threads but no official posting or dec speak on transportation

This issue is more than just flying/flying. It is about in game transportation. Simply shutting off flying would increase 10 minutes of travel time to 30 minutes of travel time.

No comments from blizzard on what their idea was, how the game was designed differently, how nodes were gping to be handled, no info on how they were going to speed up travel to make up for cutting our speed by 210%. Simply making more direct flight paths will not cut it.

Blizzards silence on this still highly controversial issue continues to amaze me

It was obviously a decision made from high up, someone that will comment on the controversy if they feel like it. Someone like Bashiok isn't going to jump on overly discussing the controversy because in the past when he's commented on controversy we took part of his post and made it a meme ("aren't you thankful?")

That, and, there's not much to discuss. Someone high up at blizzard doesn't like what they see in flying-enabled zones. They are trying to see if they can get away with removing flying in Draenor. If people stay subscribed they probably won't relent, unless they are just tired of complaints.

[Deleted]

Blizzard just has chosen not to pursue them.

But for other reasons they like to pretend.

[Osmeric]

But for other reasons they like to pretend.

They have given their reasons. You don't like their reasons, but that's zero justification for thinking they aren't being honest about their motivations.

[Deleted]

They have given their reasons. You don't like their reasons, but that's zero justification for thinking they aren't being honest about their motivations.

It is Blizzard, after all. Think about the hours playtime they earn by replacing a convenient travel implementation with 280% speed by a time consuming implementation at 100% travel speed.

If this just raises the amount of hours played in china by 1%, they make a lot more money.

Then think about the fact the open world is not yet done. Where no flying "helps", if i may quote CM Lore.

Dont believe all those reasons and ideas blizzard outputs using their propaganda machine. At the end it's a billion dollar company whichs main interest is to make money with a 10 year old game in its cash cow phase.

And please dont try "immersion" as reason. As if the company that adds a level 90 boost for 50$ cares about immersion..

[Ninepenny]

In the version of the game you are playing, flying is available at max level, and yet parts of the game have the design to facilitate and encourage WPvP.

How is it that is not possible now?

You do realize that you couldn't fly in the Old World until Cataclysm?

[-Superman-]

Ok. Could you use a different font or something when you use a "figure of speech" that directly contradicts what you actually think is true? Maybe a sarcasm tag, or "air quotes", or something. That we, we can actually figure out what you're saying, and not waste time with the lies -- excuse me, the "figures of speech" -- you have mixed into your statements.

I will be sure to find a special way of denoting information, allowing it to be understood by people like yourself.

[TheRickyB]

You do realize that you couldn't fly in the Old World until Cataclysm?

And thats how it was. TBC, Wotlk, then Cata, and MoP all flying threw the expansions. so why should this be any different?

[gamingmuscle]

The thing is that both of us on ground mounts != both of us on flying mounts. I can still catch up with you and make a hit when you're on a ground mount - with a flying one you become untouchable ( and able to chose to remain so indefinitely).

You are not untouchable on a flying mount, but it is damn hard to kill anyone that is on one. Probably impossible for a rogue. LOL You use to be able to even dismount people on flying mounts.

But I get it. You are sad someone got away. And you want to prevent that. Being on the ground limits that. It also limits your ability to get to them, but as a rogue you do have a strong ground closing/control capabilities. But in general, people don't gain much from only traveling on the ground. They gain a lot from people doing shit. You point to flying because it's an easy scapegoat. But the problem is people just aren't interested in Blizzards current open world content. Most people sit in cities because they don't want to bother with anything the open world offers. That is the problem.