Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Nayaga]

Because I think overcoming obstacles on my way to my objective is more fun than flying over them.

We want flying after we have already completed the obstacles,

[urasim]

If you are going to a current Pet Battle, it is current content. If you are going to farm ore, leather, or herbs, they are current items. If you are out to do Dailies, they are current dailies. Whether it is old, and already seen, or new, and never before experienced, it is still content. Flight permits players to fly past, or bypass, circumvent, out maneuver, the content. Rephrasing it does not change what flight allows.

So does ground mounts, flight paths, and portals.

I am happy to have a calm, and civil conversation about the issue, but judging from your post history, you appear to be defensive anytime someone supports a concept other than your own.

Yes, lets judge post histories and not the actually argument. It's so nice running into someone that doesn't use a logical fallacy when they talk. Oh, wait...

As for imagining the game without flight, I just remember early TBC. New content, and a long journey to lvl 70 to save the 5k gold to purchase a flying mount. I am sorry they are delaying/removing your preferred method of travel. But everything about flying, is true. The good, and the bad.

I was the first person on my server to hit 70 and I had the gold for flying the next day.

Just because you think it's true, or that you say it's true, doesn't make it true. Flying didn't cause anything bad in this game. The developers stopped making this game great.

[MasterHamster]

We want flying after we have already completed the obstacles,

Why do I have to do the legendary quest line separately on every character?
Would be more fun to get a cloak mailed to me when I ding 90 on alts.

Or maybe it wouldn't.

Just because you think it's true, or that you say it's true, doesn't make it true. Flying didn't cause anything bad in this game. The developers stopped making this game great.

Those three sentences aren't getting along so well.

[Styles]

People all through this thread have been offering suggestions to make flight more relevant, more interactive, more refined, better balanced etc. Why can't Blizz make compelling content that includes flight in WoD, like they did for so long? How come now we have to be nailed to the ground to appreciate this content?

Surely, if the content we are doing will be so good that we don't miss flight, then removing flight is pointless anyway, seeing as we would all be on the ground doing the content.

What compelling content, that you enjoy, were you ever refused of doing because you could fly in WoW? Did you play the game for X amount of years on your flying mount looking at stuff on the ground and not fly down and do it, just cuz you were flying?

The choice for bypassing that stuff in WoD without flight will be flight paths and portals/teleports. How is skipping a huge part of the continent via port or stuck to an inescapable scenery cinematic an improvement of what is in the game today.

The Occulus. That dungeon would have been amazing as a portalled jump puzzled, instead of maneuvering drakes through the "dungeon" and into a final battle. No other dungeon uses flight in such a way, except maybe Grim Batol for softening up the mobs, but that is more like a flight path with some flame breath. As I've said, I am not lobbying for the removal of flight. I am simply going into WoD with an open mind. If it fails to deliver, there will be tons of "I told you so"s. Personally, I will remain unaffected as ground mounts are my preferred travel method.

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Just because you think it's true, or that you say it's true, doesn't make it true.

Just think about this statement.

[Anzaman]

So does ground mounts, flight paths, and portals.

Flight paths and portals still have fixed locations... excluding Mage ones as they can be conjured anywhere, but still have only one exit point for each location.

And with ground mounts, you need to go on ground and keep your eyes on the environment. Unlike with flying mounts where it's as simple as summoning your drake, pressing space 5 seconds and then auto-running to certain direction without needing to dodge anything expect some tall mountains.

[urasim]

Flight paths and portals still have fixed locations... excluding Mage ones as they can be conjured anywhere, but still have only one exit point for each location.

And with ground mounts, you need to go on ground and keep your eyes on the environment. Unlike with flying mounts where it's as simple as summoning your drake, pressing space 5 seconds and then auto-running to certain direction without needing to dodge anything expect some tall mountains.

Fixed locations and they still avoid more content than flying ever will. Doesn't matter if they are fixed or not.

The content skipped through flight paths is much worse because you can see the content being killed right under you and you can't do a thing about it. Whereas with a flying mount you can stop by and partake in the fun.

[CheeseSandwich]

Why do I have to do the legendary quest line separately on every character?
Would be more fun to get a cloak mailed to me when I ding 90 on alts.

Or maybe it wouldn't.

You mean kinda like the BoA epics you can get from TI and mail them to your alts for insta epics at 90?

Also, legendary quest line on multiple toons =/= flying on a max level toon once they have mastered this new 'world'.

Would be more like if you worked for your cloak and had it for ToT, but then Blizz said they were removing the proc for SoO. Maybe.

[Styles]

Fixed locations and they still avoid more content than flying ever will. Doesn't matter if they are fixed or not.

The content skipped through flight paths is much worse because you can see the content being killed right under you and you can't do a thing about it. Whereas with a flying mount you can stop by and partake in the fun.

So, you admit flying allows you to avoid content, even if it is not as much as flight paths, or portals.

[CheeseSandwich]

The Occulus. That dungeon would have been amazing as a portalled jump puzzled, instead of maneuvering drakes through the "dungeon" and into a final battle. No other dungeon uses flight in such a way, except maybe Grim Batol for softening up the mobs, but that is more like a flight path with some flame breath. As I've said, I am not lobbying for the removal of flight. I am simply going into WoD with an open mind. If it fails to deliver, there will be tons of "I told you so"s. Personally, I will remain unaffected as ground mounts are my preferred travel method.

Cool, I respect that. I didn't mind Occy personally, especially when they added the extra loot bag incentive, but I see how it was annoying for some. Hey, at least they were trying something, right? Going out on a limb, or wing, as it were.

[Nayaga]

Why do I have to do the legendary quest line separately on every character?
Would be more fun to get a cloak mailed to me when I ding 90 on alts..

Why bother doing the content do "Ding" upto level 90. Just buy a Blizzard Boast and skip 100% of the content leading up to level 100!

We all skip content we are not interested in. For me, I skip PvP, pet battles and archaeology. This is a good thing, Blizzard puts enough in the game to entertain a very large group of people. With flying mounts I skip content I've already completed.

[urasim]

So, you admit flying allows you to avoid content, even if it is not as much as flight paths, or portals.

I just said all forms of travel let's you skip it after responding to you...

"If you are going to a current Pet Battle, it is current content. If you are going to farm ore, leather, or herbs, they are current items. If you are out to do Dailies, they are current dailies. Whether it is old, and already seen, or new, and never before experienced, it is still content. Flight permits players to fly past, or bypass, circumvent, out maneuver, the content. Rephrasing it does not change what flight allows." -You

"So does ground mounts, flight paths, and portals." -Me

I later explained that flight paths and portals are by far the worst offenders because they don't let you interact with anything in the world until you arrive at your fixed location.

You're skipping irrelevant content that you have likely already done.

If after the leveling process there isn't anything in the open world, are you skipping relevant or irrelevant content with flying, flight paths, and portals? The answer would be irrelevant content. Because you already did it all. Yes, there will be content at max level(doing the beta there is a really dumb grind that you can skip entirely and not feel bad), but after that grind there isn't anything. You get the pets as you level or shortly after the leveling process, you get the ore and herbs from your bots that Blizzard gave you, and (if you're sane)you'll skip archaeology till flying comes back.

[Styles]

You're skipping irrelevant content that you have likely already done.

In order to reach something you have either not done, or need to do again. I get that some people prefer to fly. This thread is living proof of that revelation. But, after 8 years of doing it the same way, they are trying to shake things up a bit and get back to the roots of their game. Vanilla had no flying, and was obviously compelling enough to grow 8M players, and spur on expansions which grew it even further. Had flying never been introduced, just as it had never been introduced into EQ, I imagine WoW would still be just as popular since most fan sites track Raid and PvP progress, not Number of Flying Mounts.

[Jaylock]

@Maneo

Do you have some sort of block that is telling you that Blizzard is incapable of making the game and world fun without flying? Couldn't they just add more spawns of the nodes of ore / herbs? Couldnt they have more frequent rares pop up?

You do understand that they can adjust things to make ground gameplay very compelling.

Besides the fact that they are:

1) Making flight paths more linear and quicker than before

2) Already said they would be increasing node spawns

3) Have all sorts of timeless isle type treasures and things to be found that you would most likely miss in a flying mount

4) Stated time and time again, that they are able to make BETTER, more dynamic content with the constraints of having people grounded

5) Stated time and time again that they believe that flight has not been the best for the game in terms of gameplay, storytelling etc

Why dont you just play the expansion, and try it before you whine and moan that you cant herpa derp fly over all obstacles swoop down, kill the mob, and swoop back up without any danger or obstacle?

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Fixed locations and they still avoid more content than flying ever will. Doesn't matter if they are fixed or not.

The content skipped through flight paths is much worse because you can see the content being killed right under you and you can't do a thing about it. Whereas with a flying mount you can stop by and partake in the fun.

You can just as easily stop on your ground mount if you see something happening, a rare pop up, a node spawn, whatever as you could with flying.

[Barkloud]

@Maneo

Do you have some sort of block that is telling you that Blizzard is incapable of making the game and world fun without flying? Couldn't they just add more spawns of the nodes of ore / herbs? Couldnt they have more frequent rares pop up?

You do understand that they can adjust things to make ground gameplay very compelling.

Besides the fact that they are:

1) Making flight paths more linear and quicker than before

2) Already said they would be increasing node spawns

3) Have all sorts of timeless isle type treasures and things to be found that you would most likely miss in a flying mount

4) Stated time and time again, that they are able to make BETTER, more dynamic content with the constraints of having people grounded

5) Stated time and time again that they believe that flight has not been the best for the game in terms of gameplay, storytelling etc

Why dont you just play the expansion, and try it before you whine and moan that you cant herpa derp fly over all obstacles swoop down, kill the mob, and swoop back up without any danger or obstacle?

It appears all that was done was to have the flying turned off. From what i have read on Beta, nothing is different than any other expansion before it. Flight paths are still loopy, spawns are still bad and far apart.

Blizzard has not addressed any changes to their design to make not flying more agreeable.

The ONLY statement to date is, "It is not our intention to make traveling inconvenient." The truth is travelling is 210% more inconvenient than it used to be.

[Jaylock]

I just said all forms of travel let's you skip it after responding to you...

"If you are going to a current Pet Battle, it is current content. If you are going to farm ore, leather, or herbs, they are current items. If you are out to do Dailies, they are current dailies. Whether it is old, and already seen, or new, and never before experienced, it is still content. Flight permits players to fly past, or bypass, circumvent, out maneuver, the content. Rephrasing it does not change what flight allows." -You

"So does ground mounts, flight paths, and portals." -Me

I later explained that flight paths and portals are by far the worst offenders because they don't let you interact with anything in the world until you arrive at your fixed location.

You're skipping irrelevant content that you have likely already done.

If after the leveling process there isn't anything in the open world, are you skipping relevant or irrelevant content with flying, flight paths, and portals? The answer would be irrelevant content. Because you already did it all. Yes, there will be content at max level(doing the beta there is a really dumb grind that you can skip entirely and not feel bad), but after that grind there isn't anything. You get the pets as you level or shortly after the leveling process, you get the ore and herbs from your bots that Blizzard gave you, and (if you're sane)you'll skip archaeology till flying comes back.

Im not skipping archaeology, it looks to be fun even on a ground mount!

Flight paths offer a more realistic way of getting from point A to point B in terms of gameplay. You mount up on your horse, go to a town, and that town has a flight master who allows you to ride one of his beautiful drakes to another city that someone in city A gave you a quest to go to. You still have to ride there to discover the new flight path, and guess what, you might see a rare or two on the way riding there! You might see a treasure! You might find a dynamic world event happening as your ride to the new city. Oh what do you know! Compelling content while you are on a GROUND mount!

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It appears all that was done was to have the flying turned off. From what i have read on Beta, nothing is different than any other expansion before it. Flight paths are still loopy, spawns are still bad and far apart.

Blizzard has not addressed any changes to their design to make not flying more agreeable.

The ONLY statement to date is, "It is not our intention to make traveling inconvenient." The truth is travelling is 210% more inconvenient than it used to be.

You apparently dont read do you?

They S-P-E-C-I-F-I-C-A-L-L-Y stated that they waited until the near end of the beta to make changes to the flight paths.

Please answer me this, what sense would it be to make direct flight paths from the get go in early phases of the beta when many locations change? Answer: it makes no sense.

Trust me, they will be making flight paths more direct.

[Barkloud]

Im not skipping archaeology, it looks to be fun even on a ground mount!

Flight paths offer a more realistic way of getting from point A to point B in terms of gameplay. You mount up on your horse, go to a town, and that town has a flight master who allows you to ride one of his beautiful drakes to another city that someone in city A gave you a quest to go to. You still have to ride there to discover the new flight path, and guess what, you might see a rare or two on the way riding there! You might see a treasure! You might find a dynamic world event happening as your ride to the new city. Oh what do you know! Compelling content while you are on a GROUND mount!

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You apparently dont read do you?

They S-P-E-C-I-F-I-C-A-L-L-Y stated that they waited until the near end of the beta to make changes to the flight paths.

Please answer me this, what sense would it be to make direct flight paths from the get go in early phases of the beta when many locations change? Answer: it makes no sense.

Trust me, they will be making flight paths more direct.

You obviously play this game alot. Are you truthfully excited about spending the next two years of the expansion travelling at 100% speed, leveling your 5th alt past the same redundant area?

Three facts about Blizzard:

1. Each expansion they develop less than the expansion before it.
2. Each expansion we have longer and longer content dry spells with nothing new added to the game.
3. Each expansion they promise a shorter development time and a faster expansion next time.

Given the above information do you really want to spend another 14 months with no content being forced to run to get nodes or do other open world activities?

[urasim]

In order to reach something you have either not done, or need to do again. I get that some people prefer to fly. This thread is living proof of that revelation. But, after 8 years of doing it the same way, they are trying to shake things up a bit and get back to the roots of their game. Vanilla had no flying, and was obviously compelling enough to grow 8M players, and spur on expansions which grew it even further. Had flying never been introduced, just as it had never been introduced into EQ, I imagine WoW would still be just as popular since most fan sites track Raid and PvP progress, not Number of Flying Mounts.

"In order to reach something you have either not done, or need to do again." Or, you're running to a raid or challenge mode instance...

Can we please not play the speculations game? It doesn't help the argument for either side. By the way... Most of MoP's current content is non-flying open world, and it has less subscribers than classic. Dunno what that could possible mean. Maybe no flying in current content is causing the downfall, or maybe it's because of the game is just too old. You and I will never know because we don't have the data that Blizzard does, and speculating on it is about the dumbest thing we can do.

You can just as easily stop on your ground mount if you see something happening, a rare pop up, a node spawn, whatever as you could with flying.

Um, okay... Thanks, I guess, for stating the obvious.

[CheeseSandwich]

They S-P-E-C-I-F-I-C-A-L-L-Y stated that they waited until the near end of the beta to make changes to the flight paths.

Please answer me this, what sense would it be to make direct flight paths from the get go in early phases of the beta when many locations change? Answer: it makes no sense.

Trust me, they will be making flight paths more direct.

What sense does it make to spend dev time designing loop the loop, useless, time wasting flight paths in an expac you expect to have no flight, when you know you will have to go back and do it again later? Wouldn't a whole bunch of captain placeholders be better?

They are quickly running out of time to do so, as well as fix all the other bugs that pop up every 5 mins or so on the beta bug forum.

[Sunseeker]

Well, even if they do remove flying in this expansion, the expansion doesn't sound like it'll last more than a year.

[Jaylock]

You obviously play this game alot. Are you truthfully excited about spending the next two years of the expansion travelling at 100% speed, leveling your 5th alt past the same redundant area?

Three facts about Blizzard:

1. Each expansion they develop less than the expansion before it.
2. Each expansion we have longer and longer content dry spells with nothing new added to the game.
3. Each expansion they promise a shorter development time and a faster expansion next time.

Given the above information do you really want to spend another 14 months with no content being forced to run to get nodes or do other open world activities?

First, if the world has enough to do, I wont be leveling "5th" alts like you. Second, have you even seen any of the beta footage? Have you experienced anything in the beta? I would bet not. I have a friend in the beta and he said he has leveled 2 toons to 100 already and he said its a breeze and varied each time. He really enjoyed the leveling process for two toons. You are complaining about something you havent even experienced yet, and you seem to complain because you are one of those guys who wants to level 50 characters on your account to level 100. Whats the point? If the raid content is great, and the small group gameplay is great, why spend so much time leveling random chars to 100? No point at all.