Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[aggs]

No, it's slower OR more dangerous. Risk vs reward. Brings an actual choice into the game for travel. You'll have to figure out if you want speed and danger or slow and safe...

Ahhh I did miss the "or" in there, my b. Either way, how does a players choice of travel effect you in the slightest? You play how you want and they play how they want right? I do understand it from the whole pvp aspect, but as many of others have pointed out, how should a change like that have anything to do with a pve server?

[Perkunas]

Ahhh I did miss the "or" in there, my b. Either way, how does a players choice of travel effect you in the slightest? You play how you want and they play how they want right? I do understand it from the whole pvp aspect, but as many of others have pointed out, how should a change like that have anything to do with a pve server?

It's actually a non-choice at the moment and let me explain. When one option is vastly superior in every single way, shape, and form to the other option it is no longer a real choice. It's merely an illusion of choice. Tell me that 100% of the players who are flying around everywhere would be doing the same thing if ground mounts were faster and I'll call you an absolute raving nutter. Make it a real choice and that'll be more immersion than taking it out.

[aggs]

It's actually a non-choice at the moment and let me explain. When one option is vastly superior in every single way, shape, and form to the other option it is no longer a real choice. It's merely an illusion of choice. Tell me that 100% of the players who are flying around everywhere would be doing the same thing if ground mounts were faster and I'll call you an absolute raving nutter. Make it a real choice and that'll be more immersion than taking it out.

Why does the ground mount have to be faster? Why can't they be the same? Making it a real choice and not a non-choice. Who are you to also say what makes one more immersed than another? I personally don't care about immersion at all, I like to fly around kill shit, have fun, do whatever I want basically. I would have no problem with them being the same speed. Hell 280% ground speed in open world sounds fun as hell. I would actually use that over flying in a lot of cases probably.

[zerocarbs]

Immersion is traveling faster on the ground than in the air? How do you account for obstacles on the ground? Will you still be ride around those obstacles faster than you can fly over them?

[Perkunas]

Why does the ground mount have to be faster? Why can't they be the same? Making it a real choice and not a non-choice. Who are you to also say what makes one more immersed than another? I personally don't care about immersion at all, I like to fly around kill shit, have fun, do whatever I want basically. I would have no problem with them being the same speed. Hell 280% ground speed in open world sounds fun as hell. I would actually use that over flying in a lot of cases probably.

You guys are always latching on to a single part of the statement. EITHER slower and as safe as it is currently OR it remains the same speed and they put in tons of sky mobs that'll knock you off your flyer. He'll give me an item that allows me to shoot people out of the sky and I'm game with an "as long as you can target the person you can use the item". The reason I suggest these things is because currently flying is both much faster and 100% more safe than ground travel. In order to provide real choice and risk vs reward you have to make things more fair between the two modes of travel. You guys aren't really picking this up and instead are hell bent on refusing even the idea of compromise.

[TyrianFC]

I like the idea in another thread. Let flight path networks use a player-chosen mount they own instead of a generic racial mount. That way Players can still see their favourite flying mount in action and its flying animations. (no more 'qq i bought this flying mount on the store and cant use it for flying in Draenor qq')

They just cant fly on it to go where-ever they want.

Some of the pro-flying extremists wont be happy - but this is an acceptable bone to throw them which they should take and be satisfied with, I feel.

[Mormolyce]

I don't think so. It seems all to likely, to me, that it was the design of Cata and MOP that caused sub loss. I mean, we went from record-setting numbers in Lich King to a net loss of 2.2 million subs over 2 years? A steady climb in sub numbers for the entirety of the game's life until Cata launches and 'then' two million people sit there and go 'wow, this is a good expansion but I'm burnt out now and will now quit and never return."

I find it much more likely that it was the expansions that drove people away, not boredom and burn-out.

Subs hit their peak just before Wrath's release and plateaued until just before Cata. Then they slid down. By that logic people didn't much like Wrath either.

It's really just a standard product lifecycle curve, only writ large.

Did you readMMO-cha,pion this morning? Did you read the blizzard tweets? Flying is not happening. Just like with the dungeons last expansion, blizzard is cutting corners and saving money. That is what happens when you lose 2000000 players due to bad policy. What a stupid company.

Saving money? You think Blizzard pays 10c every time your mount flaps its wings?

They're doing this for GAMEPLAY reasons.

[Sunseeker]

I like the idea in another thread. Let flight path networks use a player-chosen mount they own instead of a generic racial mount. That way Players can still see their favourite flying mount in action and its flying animations. (no more 'qq i bought this flying mount on the store and cant use it for flying in Draenor qq')

They just cant fly on it to go where-ever they want.

Some of the pro-flying extremists wont be happy - but this is an acceptable bone to throw them which they should take and be satisfied with, I feel.

The whole point of adding flying was to do exactly that. And I have no intention of being satisfied with whatever bone you happen to toss me. Christ you people are arrogant.

[TyrianFC]

The whole point of adding flying was to do exactly that.

And years later, all the astute players and even Blizzard, have come to the conclusion that this was a big mistake and a bad idea in hindsight. Going where-ever you want, whenever you want, doesnt make the game better.

As prior stated, Blizzard and myself are prepared to throw you some bones with regards to expanding existing flight networks and making them easier/more efficient to traverse - and ill even allow flight paths to use your favourite flying mount - but removal of free form flying is required for your own benefit. Please save thanking me till later.

[rebecca191]

And years later, all the astute players and even Blizzard, have come to the conclusion that this was a big mistake and a bad idea in hindsight. Going where-ever you want, whenever you want, doesnt make the game better.

It doesn't for some people. It does for some people. Because people like different things.

[zerocarbs]

Blizzard and myself are prepared to throw you some bones

This made me smile inside. Very cute.

[aggs]

And years later, all the astute players and even Blizzard, have come to the conclusion that this was a big mistake and a bad idea in hindsight. Going where-ever you want, whenever you want, doesnt make the game better.

As prior stated, Blizzard and myself are prepared to throw you some bones with regards to expanding existing flight networks and making them easier/more efficient to traverse - and ill even allow flight paths to use your favourite flying mount - but removal of free form flying is required for your own benefit. Please save thanking me till later.

You should see if they will start letting you have an official blue section. It is really odd that I spent so much time not being able to fly anywhere back when I started playing, then was able to and loved it, and now YOU know what I want/need more than me.

- - - Updated - - -

You guys are always latching on to a single part of the statement. EITHER slower and as safe as it is currently OR it remains the same speed and they put in tons of sky mobs that'll knock you off your flyer. He'll give me an item that allows me to shoot people out of the sky and I'm game with an "as long as you can target the person you can use the item". The reason I suggest these things is because currently flying is both much faster and 100% more safe than ground travel. In order to provide real choice and risk vs reward you have to make things more fair between the two modes of travel. You guys aren't really picking this up and instead are hell bent on refusing even the idea of compromise.

Again, why can't they both be fast?

[MoanaLisa]

Saving money? You think Blizzard pays 10c every time your mount flaps its wings?

No, not at all. But constructing a fully flyable three-dimensional environment takes more time, effort and whatever it is they do than the excellent-looking but cardboard cutout false front version of Silvermoon City as one example.

If they can get everyone back on the ground they can go back to that. That would certainly save them some money. I think it's gameplay too but I can certainly see that this would be a way for them to help themselves.

[Demeia]

No, not at all. But constructing a fully flyable three-dimensional environment takes more time, effort and whatever it is they do than the excellent-looking but cardboard cutout false front version of Silvermoon City as one example.

If they can get everyone back on the ground they can go back to that. That would certainly save them some money. I think it's gameplay too but I can certainly see that this would be a way for them to help themselves.

They could save money in a myriad number of ways. Making two zones--which have "ghost" versions or exist across dimensions for example (small differences, basically recycling the zone). We don't need 6 wildly different super-sized zones; there are other ways for them to solve this problem.

It's also seems like a largely theoretical problem. "The game is getting smaller and we might need to scale down size..." There seems to still be plenty of players. Other MMOs would probably not be upset if they have to recycle some zones here or there; the story and quests would be new.

If they really want to solve the PvP problem, they might consider limiting flight on PvP servers (through certain patches) while at the same time dramatically increasing the drop rates/gathering amounts.

Frankly, I don't think they care a whit about making more world PvP and this is all about economics and being unwilling to recycle the odd bit or land here or there.

[Perkunas]

Again, why can't they both be fast?

Because flying is completely safe and avoids all obstacles. Ground mounts don't get that luxury so that's how you'd balance it.

[Smudge]

I don't see Blizzard ever creating any non-flight-friendly terrain ever again, even if flight isn't nominally allowed. There are just too many doodads and gimmicks to allow people to exploit non-flyable terrain in the game.

[MoanaLisa]

Because flying is completely safe and avoids all obstacles. Ground mounts don't get that luxury so that's how you'd balance it.

You do know that if the pull they trigger on this they'll likely make the roads even safer than they are now. Just to placate some.

[aggs]

Because flying is completely safe and avoids all obstacles. Ground mounts don't get that luxury so that's how you'd balance it.

Would the speed be like it is currently in older content or is your proposal for current only? Because it sounds like paying thousands of gold for it would make zero sense.

[Perkunas]

Would the speed be like it is currently in older content or is your proposal for current only? Because it sounds like paying thousands of gold for it would make zero sense.

Only in current content. Once the content is no longer valid go ahead and zoom all around. So basically after each Xpack is over the continent would let you fly like previously at 280 or 310 etc.

[aggs]

Only in current content. Once the content is no longer valid go ahead and zoom all around. So basically after each Xpack is over the continent would let you fly like previously at 280 or 310 etc.

So do you think it has nothing to do with immersion then? The prospect of them possibly not allowing it in current content. I mean if that is the case, why does immersion only matter in current content?